Crime Maria Butina Pleads Guilty to Working on Behalf of the Kremlin Through the NRA

[splendica]

You people are both idiotic and hypocritical no end. None of the idiots on this Russia crap gives a shit about foreign dangers, spying, inappropriate relationships, let alone agents from a foreign nation running wild in America.

100% this.

 

[panamaican]

I think it's absolutely incredible that Russia managed to compromise the GOP, what with them being mortal, dire nemesis for decades. The entirety of the Cold War was conservative America being freaked the fuck out about those god damn Russians infiltrating our freedom... and now here we are.
They were always several steps ahead of our intelligence and counter-intelligence apparatus, but this is just non-stop impressive to me. I think it really shows how hard of a shift has occurred on one side of the spectrum when certain elements of our conservative politics actively court Russian meddling in our institutions and society. Absolutely unthinkable 50 years ago, and a scandal of huge proportions just 20-25 years ago. I'm no fan of Reagan, but he's spinning in his grave like a top.

I completely agree. It's 180 degrees. And the crazy part is that they're still using the public propaganda of that era while adhering to none of the principles. They're like a shell of their former selves.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Stop, I'm not the one.

You can state with certainty that WikiLeaks has always presented you with both sides of a major issue? You are 100% certain that they do not withhold information from the public?

is that what I asked?
again, have they ever been proven to have provided FALSE information?

I am 100% certain the Government and MSM absolutely withholds information from the public though

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Damn the NRA is on the wrong side of this fight. Kinda glad I cancelled my NRA membership a while back. Too political for my blood.

I've been a member since the 90's and my dad since the 60's. I value the 2nd amendment and the NRA has been on the front lines for us but I have been against their cozy relationship with arms manufacturers. That they may be willing participants in a Russisn plot just blows my mind.

 

[Seaside]

You people are both idiotic and hypocritical no end. None of the idiots on this Russia crap gives a shit about foreign dangers, spying, inappropriate relationships, let alone agents from a foreign nation running wild in America.

I haven’t been following the Butina saga. Can you please link to any filings (indictments/ informations, memoranda, etc.)? Nothing you described above is illegal, so the charge must be related to something else—perhaps failing to properly register, money laundering, or something else.

I’d actually like to know whether this lady committed a crime, or if this is another case of prosecutors scaring a defendant into a plea in order to target the POTUS.

She did nothing wrong. John bolton spoke at a pro gun rally in Russia about russian gun rights. Wow big deal

Republican nationalists may find mutual ground with a nationalist pro christian anti marxist government like that of Russias. Russia isnt the enemy here. Id argue the far left abd weak borders and islamists issue and leftists are a larger threat to America.

The NRA has been hijaked by fringe reactionaries and are now dealing in anti American activities.

The organization should be brought to its knees

How is this comment of yourself not anti 1st ammendment. Here you are wanting to shut down the NRA.

 

[oldshadow]

The NRA needs to investigate and even if their did nothing illegal they were stupid and deserve to be forced to step down, do a little house cleaning.

I'm still going to support the NRA because they are the strongest gun rights protection we.

The left and the anti 2nd would love to get rid of them by any means possible because of this.

 

[splendica]

Everything to do with this witch hunt as orchestrated by Democrat and FBI colluders is an affront to the American constitution and the Democratic Republic it protects.

From the corruption of the media, slanted against Trump and even Hillary's co-runners in the primaries, to the deceptively obtained FISA warrant from the DOJ used to both deceive the American public while launching a literal witch hunt with the full might of the FBI, this scam more than likely the worst abuse of power and case of corruption in American history.

That all is fact. Sorry if Trump hurt your feelings, but it wouldn't take much for this rogue collusion within America to forgo justice for the sake of the corrupt establishment that it is. And a large number of Democrat supporters are of the same stripe.

 

[JamesRussler]

Lucky, if you read through the documents I've linked, you'll see that this girl, Butina, is in way over her head. The judge denied her bail, and they were keeping her in solitary confinement. Here's a little blurb from the Left-leaning Daily Kos on the events which led up to her plea:

"Russian spy Maria Butina has reportedly been struggling during her time in a U.S. federal prison. Butina’s lawyers have repeatedly asked U.S. District Court Judge Tanya Chutkan to order Butina out of the solitary confinement in which she is held and released into the general prison population. In late November, her lawyers said Butina is increasingly in poor mental health because of the isolation, but Judge Chutkan denied their request.

Only days later, word came that Butina appeared to be breaking in spirit and would accept a plea deal with federal prosecutors, changing her plea from not guilty to guilty on conspiracy charges."
​

https://www.dailykos.com/blog/Trump%20Russia%20Investigators

I suspect you view this case as some sort of proof that the GOP is a Russian espionage agency, and that Trump is a Russian puppet. A lot of the Left seems to believe that. I don't know much about this case, so I will reserve judgment. I am inclined to believe that Maria Butina is an idiot who got herself in trouble by running her mouth about her own influence. That' s usually what this sort of case is about. I am not inclined to attribute any of her actions to Donald Trump.

But understand this: Maria Butina was going to plea to whatever they charged her with, and if she didn't, she was going to die in prison. Solitary confinement is serious business, and people who go in for long periods don't come out the same. That's something I will take into account when evaluating the events reported. It's something you should consider too.

 

[Limbo Pete]

All good pts, but to consider (just spitballing here):
Russia is still ostensibly opposed to China/N. Korea, and they certainly seem to fit w/ the older GOP regarding Identity Politics

Given that we are the two largest producers of oil/gas in the world, I could theoretically see them thinking we could form some cabal to rival OPEC or something and inflate/deflate oil prices as they see fit. Russia, afterall, does provide Europe with much/most of its oil/gas.

Also, militarily they are a joke compared to us now especially in regards to usable equipment, so the former threat isn't really a physical threat anymore

The thing about Russia imo is that they are and have always been way more devious than anybody else. At least for the last 70 years. They don't want anything resembling parity in relationships, and joint interest will always be a transitory means to an end. It's not that they are going to take over the world and enslave everyone. They're basically real life geopolitical Romulans.

 

[panamaican]

is that what I asked?
again, have they ever been proven to have provided FALSE information?

I am 100% certain the Government and MSM absolutely withholds information from the public though

I know what you asked. I'm asking you to clarify a foundational point.

You want to know if they've ever been proven to have provided false information. That's predicated on assuming that what they've provided is a true reflection of a subject. There are many ways to lie - omission being one of them.

So, before I can answer your question, I need to know with certainty that lies of omission never occurred. So, can you tell me with certainty that WikiLeaks has always presented you with both sides of a major issue? You are 100% certain that they do not withhold information from the public?

Or does that not matter?

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

They had no goals relative to the U.S. They were looking for a foothold in Russia. They used her to get into Russia, she used them to get to American politicians.

Basically, the Russians set up a pro-guns group in Russia and then played on the NRA's ego. They asked the NRA to help them protect gun rights in Russia. Then they used the relationship to access politicians in the U.S.

Here's an article from 2016 before the Maria Butina link to the Russian government was exposed.
https://thinkprogress.org/nra-and-russian-cousin-18f607d40240/

Thanks. Sounds like the NRA was doing what they are supposed to do, promote gun rights.

 

[Limbo Pete]

I completely agree. It's 180 degrees. And the crazy part is that they're still using the public propaganda of that era while adhering to none of the principles. They're like a shell of their former selves.

As someone that specializes in American history, it's god damn fascinating from a professional standpoint. There are going to be some interesting books out about this stuff within the next 5-10 years.

 

[Thepaintbucket]

I've been a member since the 90's and my dad since the 60's. I value the 2nd amendment and the NRA has been on the front lines for us but I have been against their cozy relationship with arms manufacturers. That they may be willing participants in a Russisn plot just blows my mind.

Yeah it's rather disappointing IMO. I get it, they need money to survive and thrive to ensure the 2nd amendment does not become eroded through our government. But this isn't the right direction. Some costs aren't worth the price.

 

[Seaside]

I'd certainly be curious to know what the NRA's goals were. Helping the Russians just to help the Russians doesn't make much sense. Maybe they talked about import bans? Getting rid of those would be working on behalf of the American people.

Mutual interests. Dont act like the Dens and left arent talking to and doing the same with countries that share their interests.

I think it's absolutely incredible that Russia managed to compromise the GOP, what with them being mortal, dire nemesis for decades. The entirety of the Cold War was conservative America being freaked the fuck out about those god damn Russians infiltrating our freedom... and now here we are.
They were always several steps ahead of our intelligence and counter-intelligence apparatus, but this is just non-stop impressive to me. I think it really shows how hard of a shift has occurred on one side of the spectrum when certain elements of our conservative politics actively court Russian meddling in our institutions and society. Absolutely unthinkable 50 years ago, and a scandal of huge proportions just 20-25 years ago. I'm no fan of Reagan, but he's spinning in his grave like a top.

Because the republicans are pro christian, hint of white nationalism, pro israel and judeo christian valued and anti immigration and pro law and order. Russia is all those things except wite nationalist (they are more racial realist and anti african and wahhabism). For example asian russians love putin.

Russians and many republicans agree with Trump on border and israel and security and islam and china. And trade. Rigt wing populists globally have some in common witj republicans. Like pro gun and peo christian bolsonaro in Brazil.

 

[KaNesDeath]

@Higus

Event i worked this year taught me how much a photo like that costs. An these type of photos are normally campaign contributions from donors who met the cap.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I know what you asked. I'm asking you to clarify a foundational point.

You want to know if they've ever been proven to have provided false information. That's predicated on assuming that what they've provided is a true reflection of a subject. There are many ways to lie - omission being one of them.

So, before I can answer your question, I need to know with certainty that lies of omission never occurred. So, can you tell me with certainty that WikiLeaks has always presented you with both sides of a major issue? You are 100% certain that they do not withhold information from the public?

Or does that not matter?

Omitting something isn't congruent with putting out False information
I never said, nor even remotely implied they give over everything, but what they have given over.....has it ever even once been proven to be false or fabricated?

 

[Limbo Pete]

Mutual interests. Dont act like the Dens and left arent talking to and doing the same with countries that share their interests.


Because the republicans are pro christian, hint of white nationalism, pro israel and judeo christian valued and anti immigration and pro law and order. Russia is all those things except wite nationalist (they are more racial realist and anti african and wahhabism). For example asian russians love putin.

Russians and many republicans agree with Trump on border and israel and security and islam and china. And trade. Rigt wing populists globally have some in common witj republicans. Like pro gun and peo christian bolsonaro in Brazil.

Yeah, the mob aka Russia is definitely pro gun lol. Hey fella, need a loan? Btw the interest gets tacked onto the principle.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Traitors.
Traitors to the United States, loyal to Russia.

Compromised. Bought.

 

[panamaican]

Thanks. Sounds like the NRA was doing what they are supposed to do, promote gun rights.

<puh-lease75>

 

[panamaican]

As someone that specializes in American history, it's god damn fascinating from a professional standpoint. There are going to be some interesting books out about this stuff within the next 5-10 years.

Written in Russian...