What was Hitler's biggest mistake in WWII?

[Happy Man]

I’d assume the plan would be to fight off the fleet with air attacks and bringing massive rail artillery to the coast. And using whatever subs they had. And laying cast minefiekds in the channel.

The real reason the UK wasn’t invaded is simple and has nothing to do with the UK. It’s that the Russians were fighting so hard in the east that the Germans had to devote too much material to that front.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...i-germany-came-invading-britain-the-one-18160

The British keep talking a big game when in reality the Russians themselves, with American material support could have defeated Germany.

 

[fdswer]

I’d assume the plan would be to fight off the fleet with air attacks and bringing massive rail artillery to the coast. And using whatever subs they had. And laying cast minefiekds in the channel.

The real reason the UK wasn’t invaded is simple and has nothing to do with the UK. It’s that the Russians were fighting so hard in the east that the Germans had to devote too much material to that front.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...i-germany-came-invading-britain-the-one-18160

The British keep talking a big game when in reality the Russians themselves, with American material support could have defeated Germany.

So the RAF couldn't bomb the invasion force at night but the Luftwaffe would be able to bomb the RN at night? what a joke.

For starters, the RAF’s defense of British air space in mid-1940, while admirable, wasn’t decisive in forestalling the invasion … because the invasion didn’t depend on the Luftwaffe gaining local air superiority. Germany’s improvised nighttime invasion fleet of destroyers, barges and fishing boats could expect to sail right under the RAF’s nose.

But the British ships would have to endure air attacks and survive minefields before finally making contact — at night — with the four dispersed and heavily-armed invasion flotillas the Germans had planned. While the Royal Navy’s submarines might fare better, the surface fleet’s chances of defeating an invasion on its own were tenuous.

That shit literally makes no sense.

And they article doesn't mention anything about supplying the invasion force, that is a lot of supplies you are going to have to send over the channel 24/7 with a intact RAF and RN on top of you. That article is basically one huge hypothetical what if and ignores reality.

 

[Loiosh]

Nothing in those articles supports your dumb Hitler was chivalrous and wanted peace shit, the second quote even says its wrong.

You are a fucking Reichtard.

Hitler absolutely wanted peace with Britain, no question. He wanted and expected them as an eventual ally all the way up to the blitz.

German intelligence was catastrophically bad all the way through World War II and Hitler dramatically over-estimated British military strength, just as it under-estimated Russia.

 

[fdswer]

Hitler absolutely wanted peace with Britain, no question. He wanted and expected them as an eventual ally all the way up to the blitz.

German intelligence was catastrophically bad all the way through World War II and Hitler dramatically over-estimated British military strength, just as it under-estimated Russia.

No

 

[Phr3121]

So the thing didn't work so well? 3 dead per rocket? Failed to destroy the important bridge!?

Which one, the Me 262 jet or the V-2 rocket? They both worked very well for a 1930s development. Could changes have been made to improve the design? Sure, but no one else was flying jets or launching rockets at the time.

The V-2 lacked a proximity fuze, so it could not be set for air burst which would have killed far more people. A scientific reconstruction carried out in 2010 demonstrated that the V-2 creates a crater 66 feet wide and 26 feet deep, ejecting approximately 3,000 tons of material into the air.

"Accuracy increased over the course of the war, particularly for batteries where the Leitstrahl (radio guide beam) system was used. Missile strikes that found targets could cause large numbers of deaths — 160 were killed and 108 seriously injured in one explosion in November 1944 in London."

The 'bridge' issue was already covered on a previous post. "They could not employ the more accurate Leitstrahl device because it was oriented towards Antwerp and could not be easily adjusted for another target (the bridge)."

 

[fdswer]

Which one, the Me 262 jet or the V-2 rocket? They both worked very well for a 1930s development. Could changes have been made to improve the design? Sure, but no one else was flying jets or launching rockets at the time.

The V-2 lacked a proximity fuze, so it could not be set for air burst which would have killed far more people. A scientific reconstruction carried out in 2010 demonstrated that the V-2 creates a crater 66 feet wide and 26 feet deep, ejecting approximately 3,000 tons of material into the air.

"Accuracy increased over the course of the war, particularly for batteries where the Leitstrahl (radio guide beam) system was used. Missile strikes that found targets could cause large numbers of deaths — 160 were killed and 108 seriously injured in one explosion in November 1944 in London."

The 'bridge' issue was already covered on a previous post. "They could not employ the more accurate Leitstrahl device because it was oriented towards Antwerp and could not be easily adjusted for another target (the bridge)."

Jesus man the Gloster Meteor entered service in July 1944 and the P-80 was entering operations in limited service what are you talking about nobody was flying jets at the time. The allies never rushed them into service because there was no need to.

More people died building the V2 rockets than they killed in operation and were nothing compared to the massive damage allied bombers could do. The allies never even bothered with anything like that because they were a complete waste. And yeah the one time they tried to use it in battle it failed dont know why you think that was a positive.

You really sound like a nazi tech wanker.

 

[ElKarlo]

Germans were not wrecking anything. Their bombers already had unsubstantial losses in aircraft and crew. Focusing them to bomb liverpool would have had them just get torn up by the RAF

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Blitz will try to find the non wiki sources, as they're buried in a forum. But basically the Germans for a few weeks almost knocked Liverpool out as a port. Which would have shut down it's ability to be resupplied

 

[Phr3121]

Von Braunn is on record saying the V2 was based of American research and tec done before the war.

Oh, I would love to see your source on this one. NASA could not do shit with their rockets until Von Braunn stepped into the picture, so, what American research and technology were the Germans using during WWII?

 

[Loiosh]

No

Well, yes, actually.

“As England, in spite of the hopelessness of her military position, has so far shown herself unwilling to come to any compromise, I have decided to begin to prepare for, and if necessary to carry out, an invasion of England.”

Hitler sued for peace and was refused.​

 

[ElKarlo]

No arguing on how ridiculous a 250mm thick casemate is for WWII. Still a bad design though.

But my point is Germany was incapable of beating England into submission unless Britain decided it wanted out politically. As far we can tell, the only way Germany would take England out of the war was by invasion and occupation. And since that was never feasible, we can conclude that England was in the fight for the long haul.

It was silly.
Economically the UK can lose. It was out of money and would have faced bankruptcy by 42 without significant US aide.
Colonial empires are expensive and India wanted out as soon as the war was done.

 

[ElKarlo]

But if you cant get rid of the RN and cant completely destroy the RAF you are not beating Britain, any attempt at a invasion will end up in failure.

The Germans didn't have landing craft. And no mother shios to cross the channel in. It was impossible.

 

[fdswer]

Well, yes, actually.

“As England, in spite of the hopelessness of her military position, has so far shown herself unwilling to come to any compromise, I have decided to begin to prepare for, and if necessary to carry out, an invasion of England.”

Hitler sued for peace and was refused.​

What are the peace terms and all that then there is a lot of missing context with that quote. There were not real attempts after 1939 to keep Britain out of the war it was just the usual posturing by Hitler he said a lot of crap like that.

 

[Loiosh]

What are the peace terms and all that then there is a lot of missing context with that quote. There were not real attempts after 1939 to keep Britain out of the war it was just the usual posturing by Hitler he said a lot of crap like that.

Read Defeat in the West. It's based on interviews with German generals immediately following the end of the war.

While Hitler told his generals as little as possible, there was still the sense among them that Hitler expected Britain to both capitulate and become an ally.

 

[fdswer]

Oh, I would love to see your source on this one. NASA could not do shit with their rockets until Von Braunn stepped into the picture, so, what American research and technology were the Germans using during WWII?

Do you even know who Robert Goddard is?

in 1963, von Braun, reflecting on the history of rocketry, said of Goddard: "His rockets ... may have been rather crude by present-day standards, but they blazed the trail and incorporated many features used in our most modern rockets and space vehicles".[73] He once recalled that "Goddard's experiments in liquid fuel saved us years of work, and enabled us to perfect the V-2 years before it would have been possible."[74] After World War II von Braun reviewed Goddard's patents and believed they contained enough technical information to build a large missile.[75]

 

[ElKarlo]

@fdswer https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-Civil-WarEcon/UK-Civil-WarEcon-10.html
On 7th September 1940, for example, four out of six principal London goods depots belonging to the G.W.R. had to be closed for over three weeks; on 29th September the number of wagons exchanged between the L.M.S. and the Southern Railway in London was less than a quarter of what it had been six months earlier. Since London is the centre of the British railway system, the damage infected traffic movements throughout the country. The most alarming direct effect of London railway conditions was the drop in coal deliveries to the south. In September, when sea-borne supplies fell heavily, rail deliveries of coal to London were only fifty-two percent of the monthly rate in the summer and fifty-six percent of the rate of the previous winter. A vast mass of loaded coal wagons began to pile up in marshalling yards and exchange sidings."

 

[fdswer]

Read Defeat in the West. It's based on interviews with German generals immediately following the end of the war.

While Hitler told his generals as little as possible, there was still the sense among them that Hitler expected Britain to both capitulate and become an ally.

so its his generals thought Hitler might be hopping Britain would surrender? There was not going to be peace between Britain and Germany past 39 for sure not after 1940 with the loss of the battle of Britain. There were no real attempts at peace after 1939 thats fact.

 

[fdswer]

@fdswer https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-Civil-WarEcon/UK-Civil-WarEcon-10.html
On 7th September 1940, for example, four out of six principal London goods depots belonging to the G.W.R. had to be closed for over three weeks; on 29th September the number of wagons exchanged between the L.M.S. and the Southern Railway in London was less than a quarter of what it had been six months earlier. Since London is the centre of the British railway system, the damage infected traffic movements throughout the country. The most alarming direct effect of London railway conditions was the drop in coal deliveries to the south. In September, when sea-borne supplies fell heavily, rail deliveries of coal to London were only fifty-two percent of the monthly rate in the summer and fifty-six percent of the rate of the previous winter. A vast mass of loaded coal wagons began to pile up in marshalling yards and exchange sidings."

Yes that was during the time of heaviest fighting during the battle of Britain which the Germans could not sustain due to losses though. And after the bad losses of early September the RAF gained the advantage and were growing stronger.

 

[Phr3121]

Jesus man the Gloster Meteor entered service in July 1944 and the P-80 was entering operations in limited service what are you talking about nobody was flying jets at the time.

More people died building the V2 rockets than they killed in operation and were nothing compared to the massive damage allied bombers could do. The allies never even bothered with anything like that because they were a complete waste. And yeah the one time they tried to use it in battle it failed dont know why you think that was a positive.

You really sound like a nazi tech wanker.

No dumb-ass I'm talking about military jets that were engaging the enemy. We have already covered the 'Gloster Meteor' and the 'P-80' on a previous thread. Yeah, I know, you know your history and have your own opinions, like everyone else, but you are also a troll and an 'asshole' on the way you respond to other members. I don't really see the need for that.

I already covered the pros and cons of the V-2 on a previous post.

Again, the point of the Me-262, the V-2, and the German nuclear program is that they all lagged behind in development and resources. They were not given the priority they deserved prior to 1939. Use America's bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as an example of how Americans brought the Japanese war to an end using a 'super' weapon.

"Lise Meitner (female) was an Austrian-Swedish physicist who worked on radioactivity and nuclear physics. Meitner, Otto Hahn and Otto Robert Frisch led the small group of scientists who first discovered nuclear fission of uranium when it absorbed an extra neutron; the results were published in early 1939."

So, again, Germany could have invested more time and resources on their nuclear project but chose not to do it. They could have pushed their timeline up.

 

[aerius]

The Germans didn't have landing craft. And no mother shios to cross the channel in. It was impossible.

Bingo. Even if the British navy & air force didn't exist, there's no way for the Germans to get their men & equipment across the channel. When you literally don't have an operational landing craft and the plan was to use tugboats to tow the army across on fucking river barges, yeah. Yeah. Not happening. You could literally sink the invasion fleet with a few squadrons of PT boats.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

how about slaughtering the Ukrainians instead of arming them to attack Russia?