gsp fans are still the most delusional in the sport

[VVarhead]

There's also a P in Jon Picogram Jones.

That's very true, but we're talking about true GOATs here and the reality is Jones can't compete with Anderson in that regard.
He can continue beating up Middleweights or winning shaky decisions but that doesn't really add to his legacy.

 

[20falarVerdades]

@bjpenngoat
"The most overrated career" sure bud.

Fought in the weightclass with arguably the second largest talentpool ever and his UFC-wins looked like this:

1. Pariyan, at the time 10-2 , 21yo (GSP: 22yo)
2. Hieron, at the time 4-0, 27yo (GSP: 23yo)
3. Miller, at the time 11-3, 24yo (GSP: 24yo)
4. Trigg, at the time 12-3, 33yo (GSP: 24yo)
5. Sherk, at the time 31-1-1, 32yo (GSP: 24yo)
6. Penn, at the time 10-2-1, 27yo (GSP: 25 yo)
7. Hughes I, at the time 41-4, 33yo (GSP: 25yo)
8. Koscheck I, at the time 9-1, 29yo (GSP: 26yo)
9. Hughes II, at the time 42-5, 34yo (GSP: 26yo)
10. Serra, at the time 10-4, 34yo (GSP: 26yo)
11. Fitch, at the time 19-2, 30yo (GSP: 27yo)
12. Penn II, at the time 13-4-1, 30yo (GSP: 28yo)
13. Alves, at the time 17-5, 25yo (GSP: 28yo)
14. Hardy, at the time 23-6, 28yo (GSP: 29yo)
15. Koscheck II, at the time 15-4, 33yo (GSP: 29yo)
16. Shields, at the time 26-4-1, 32yo (GSP: 29yo)
17. Condit, at the time 28-5, 28yo (GSP: 31yo)
18. Nick Diaz, at the time 26-7, 29yo (GSP: 31yo)
19. Johny Hendricks, at the time 15-1, 30yo (GSP: 32yo)
20. Michael Bisping, at the time 30-7, 38yo (GSP: 37yo)

• The guys he has won against were on average 29.85 years old.
• When they've faced GSP, they had an average win-percentage of 85% - in comparison: the opponents Demetrious Johnson has won against had won on average 83% of their fights, Jon Jones' opponents' have won 81% of their fights, Jose Aldo's opponents have won 80% of their fights, Anderson Silva's opponents have won 79% of their fights and Emelianenko's opponents have on average won 72% of their fights when he beat them.

Another thing, which is important when looking at the level of opposition, is the number of wins and losses the beaten opponents of the above mentioned fighters had when they've beat them until the point where they've started losing repeatedly. Note: I have left draws out:

• Mighty Mouse's UFC/WEC/One opponents: 312-64 in 20 wins. (30-3 record)
• Jose Aldo's UFC/WEC opponents: 317-78 in 18 wins. (28-4 record)
• Georges St-Pierre's UFC opponents: 392-70 in 20 wins. (26-2 record)
• Anderson Silva's UFC opponents: 298-75 in 16 wins. (33-4 record)
• Jon Jones' UFC opponents: 362-83 in 20 wins. (26-1 record)
• Fedor Emelianenko's opponents: 362-139 in 31 wins. (31-1 record)

So if we base the strength of the opposition these guys have beaten on how high their win-percentage was when they've been beaten, the ranking looks like this:

1. Georges St-Pierre (85%)
2. Demetrious Johnson (83%)
3. Jon Jones (81%)
4. Jose Aldo (80%)
5. Anderson Silva (79%)
6. Fedor Emelianenko (72%)

Ranking the opponents of each fighter by their average experience:

1. Anderson Silva: 23 (23.3)
2. Georges St-Pierre: 23 (23.1)
3. Jon Jones: 22 (22.3)
4. Jose Aldo: 22 (21.9)
5. Demetrious Johnson: 19 (18.8)
6. Fedor Emelianenko: 16 (16.2)

But at what point in their career did those fighters losses happen? At which age and at what level of experience? And against who?

Demetrious Johnson
1st loss: UD, 23 yo, 10 pro fights exp, B. Pickett's record then: 18-4, now: 25-14
2nd loss: UD, 25 yo, 15 pro fights exp, D. Cruz' record then: 18-1, now: 22-2
3rd loss: SD, 31 yo, 29 pro fights exp, H. Cejudo's record then: 12-2, now: 15-2

Jose Aldo
1st loss: Sub, 19 yo, 7 pro fights exp, L. Azevedo's record then: 6-2, now: 17-9
2nd loss: KO, 29 yo, 26 pro fights exp, C. McGregor's record then: 18-2, now: 22-4
3rd loss: TKO, 30 yo, 28 pro fights exp, M. Holloway's record then: 17-3, now: 21-5
4th loss: TKO, 31 yo, 29 pro fights exp, M. Holloway's record then: 18-3, now: 21-5

Georges St-Pierre
1st loss: Sub, 23 yo, 7 pro fights exp, M. Hughes' record then: 36-4, now: 45-9
2nd loss: TKO, 25 yo, 14 pro fights exp, M. Serra's record then: 9-4, now: 11-7

Anderson Silva
1st loss: UD, 25 yo, 2 pro fights exp, L. Azeredo's record then: 2-1, now: 15-10
2nd loss: Sub, 28 yo, 12 pro fights exp, D. Takase's record then: 4-7, now: 12-15
3rd loss: Sub, 29 yo, 16 pro fights exp, R. Chonan's record then: 7-4, now: 22-13
4th loss: DQ, 30 yo, 19 pro fights exp, Y. Okami's record then: 13-2, now: 36-14

Jon Jones
1st loss: DQ, 22 yo, 9 pro fights exp, M. Hamill's record then: 7-2, now: 13-8

Fedor Emelianenko
1st loss: TKO, 24 yo, 4 pro fights exp, T. Kosaka's record then: 19-10, now: 27-20


So far so good, but what possible taints the record of those fighters?

• Demetrious Johnson: n/a
• Jose Aldo: maybe that urine test? idk.
  
• Georges St-Pierre: allegedly had is cornerman rub vaseline on his back (https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/2/2/744379/more-on-the-georges-st-pie)
• Anderson Silva: has tested positive for banned substances multiple times
• Jon Jones: has tested positive for banned substances multiple times
• Fedor Emelianenko: n/a

Conclusion: you don't have to like Georges St-Pierre (or his fans) but his resume couldn't be further from overrated.
Side note for the Fedor fans: the fact that he's beaten lots of sub-par opponents between the all-time greats he has beaten does of course "taint" his record in the terms of the very statistics i've listed here, so i just want to say that he's in my top three best/greatest fighters of all time, consisting of him, St-Pierre and Mighty Mouse.

Trying to fit normal distributions into everything you see is pure pseudoscience and something done by bullshit vendors. Plenty of people in Wall Street have gone broke doing that(see the case of Long Term Capital Management)

Can't take your post serious after this

Athleticism for instance is not normally distributed, heavier and bigger men are more athletic more often than not. Heavier weight divisions are more difficult to fight than in lighter divisions.

 

[Intellidamus]

Does Sage Northcutt have bad genetics too ? His traps and delts are not nearly as developed as Pre-USADA St Pierre's, despite the former being a lifelong bodybuilder and training specifically for size, and even partaking in natural bb contests.. What is even more comical, GSP admittedly did very little strength training and focused more on gymnastics lol.

Not only that, but GSP manages to be 10-15 lbs heavier than Sage despite being 3 inches shorter, while maintaining similar a low body fat %.

So even when compared with someone who is genetically elite, GSP's physique still is suspect. Add the fact that he fought without random drug testing for his whole career and it doesnt' take a genius to reach a sensible conclusion that he was not natty.


Glad I could give you some more knowledge today

vs

Such an ignorant post. This is about as comical as,”Steroids don’t help Jon. How come everyone else who does steroids isn’t as successful? See they don’t help”
There are so many variables that it is asinine to compare 2 individuals responses to exercise and expect the same result.
Again, BO JACKSON....

 

[NGute87]

That wasn't part of his run as champion though.



Keep up.

Like I said, I'm not a big fan of either. You should have went with vaseline instead

Killin it

 

[kflo]

So where am I failing to process. Information here? So the UFC 232 event wasn’t moved on 6 days notice because Jon can’t be a good boy and have normal test results like most everyone else?

Again you’re aware they granted a license and determined he was a good boy? Why can’t you process this?

 

[TerrorTimmy]

Lol the salty Penn fan grasping at straws to discredit GSP

Here's a hint, TS. If GSP was garbage, and GSP made Penn quit, then Penn is even more garbage than GSP

Of course, these days Penn is getting KO'd by airbags and random drunk guys, so of course he's garbage

 

[Intellidamus]

Again you’re aware they granted a license and determined he was a good boy? Why can’t you process this?

No, I get that. What you are unable to process is why did they have to have a hearing to begin with? Why are they moving an entire event on 6 days notice to another state? This shit isn’t normal.
All because Jon has ghosts of steroids past popping up here and popping up there. Why aren’t we hearing about this with other fighters if he’s so innocent?
Can you imagine every venue being subject to change “based upon our fighters drug test results”? That isn’t normal.

 

[kflo]

No, I get that. What you are unable to process is why did they have to have a hearing to begin with? Why are they moving an entire event on 6 days notice to another state? This shit isn’t normal.
All because Jon has ghosts of steroids past popping up here and popping up there. Why aren’t we hearing about this with other fighters if he’s so innocent?
Can you imagine every venue being subject to change “based upon our fighters drug test results”? That isn’t normal.

Did they have a hearing to determine any wrongdoing? Yes.

did they conclude there was no wrongdoing deserving punishment? Yes.

both are true statements.

anything else you say is simply diverting the conversation from those 2 truths.

if you want to be credible you should stick to instances where he was found to have violated the rules. Because this wasn’t one of them.

 

[Intellidamus]

Did they have a hearing to determine any wrongdoing? Yes.

did they conclude there was no wrongdoing deserving punishment? Yes.

both are true statements.

anything else you say is simply diverting the conversation from those 2 truths.

if you want to be credible you should stick to instances where he was found to have violated the rules. Because this wasn’t one of them.

What the Ufc does behind closed doors to save an event is up for debate.
Moving events to other states and having hearings based upon a fighter’s questionable PEDs tests results is bizarre. Hopefully this doesn’t happen with anyone else. I’ll leave it at that.

 

[JoshR86]

Surely it’s relevant to what you posted. What were the conclusions in each (his 2 actual violations)?

That he had illegal substances in his system and was unable to provide any supplement contaminated with TBol.

So Jones had to snitch in order to reduce his sentence

 

[iNoScopedJFK]

Its so sad when the Anderson and Jones fans have to say GSP was on PEDs to make them feel better about their PED using heros.

 

[DOZERR]

How come noone ever mentions that gsp has never truly been subjected to the USADA testing pool? You can't knock bones for failed tests when the other guy literally isn't held to the same standards. Before you nerds bring up the Bisping fight that is not the same because that was his first fight after 4 year hiatus where he could have easily cycled and flushed before entering the USADA pool.

 

[tenniswhiz]

GSP’s run was amazing. He’s one of the best to do it and an excellent role model as well.

But this myth that keeps being repeated regarding his “amazing level of competition” is getting tired.
He actually fought the worst and least dangerous overall level of competition, compared to other all time great champs.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

You just made my point. He was the same fighter his whole career people just figured him out. His decline was his lack of commitment to improving as a fighter. He is still fast and has good power but never changed a thing. It’s great that you want talk about how great his first 30 fights were but he still fights and is not very good.

Here are some more athletes who started doing much worse when they got into their lower to mid 30's: Shaq O'Neil, Wayne Gretzky, Usain Bolt, Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, Roy Jones Jr ... and 95% of Olympic gold medal winners (only 5% of Olympic gold medals are won by athletes over the age of 30). For that matter, only 10% of NBA MVP's are over the age of 30, so 90% of NBA MVP's do worse after the age of 30 as well.

Presumably they too are described by your analysis -- they were the same athletes their whole careers, people just figured them out. Its amazing how many athletes are exposed as having never been any good once they turn 30. Sure, a guy might look good winning Olympic gold at 28, but when he can't do it in the next Olympics at age 32 it proves he was never very good -- he obviously won that Olympic gold (or NBA MVP etc) because he only played against cans.

 

[kflo]

What the Ufc does behind closed doors to save an event is up for debate.
Moving events to other states and having hearings based upon a fighter’s questionable PEDs tests results is bizarre. Hopefully this doesn’t happen with anyone else. I’ll leave it at that.

Lol. Way to just avoid it.

 

[Intellidamus]

Lol. Way to just avoid it.

What did I avoid? Jon has popped in multiple tests and had entire events moved because he can’t take a test without something showing up. Yeah, hearings are standard after every drug test.
Like a guy continuously being questioned on criminal charges and finding loopholes. Problem is, most people aren’t being continuously questioned if they aren’t suspicious or have a history to begin with.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

GSP fans never paid (basically) Floyd Mayweather $300 Million to watch their hero get toyed with and then put in CTE heaven by a retired and old boxer. While screaming "head clean off" "no one can take that left" "touch of death". Then after their hero got embarrassed and stopped (which anyone with a fucking clue knew was going to happen) started saying saying "well he did pretty good" "lasted 10rds with an all time great" while being too stupid and clueless to realize that Floyd allowed to go 10rds and fool was outmatched when the contracts were signed. And Floyd played and CONned the dumbest fanbase in MMA to the tune of $300 Million.

Seems like this dumb fanbase is now back on he delusion train as they're now thinking a fight with Manny will be competitive.

Their is sucker born every minute and conor has them all for fans.

 

[Intellidamus]

How come noone ever mentions that gsp has never truly been subjected to the USADA testing pool? You can't knock bones for failed tests when the other guy literally isn't held to the same standards. Before you nerds bring up the Bisping fight that is not the same because that was his first fight after 4 year hiatus where he could have easily cycled and flushed before entering the USADA pool.

Lol, GSP was in the USADA pool for 19 tests and passed them all. But but Jon took many more not fair! Who cares? How can you compare a guy with a history like Jon’s to someone who’s never popped? 1 test or 500, pass them all. Concrete evidence will always be more damning than a couple of bitter Sherdoggers speculation.

 

[kflo]

That he had illegal substances in his system and was unable to provide any supplement contaminated with TBol.

So Jones had to snitch in order to reduce his sentence

Lol

Nice duck.

you are aware of the conclusions of the arbitrators as to whether he was intentionally cheating yet you can’t bring yourself to even acknowledge this fact. yet you claim the other side is side stepping the debate. Lol.

 

[beater81]

why is this a troll thread? I authored this in response to the dozen or so threads that have been proclaiming gsp the goat now that bones looked mortal in his last fight and arguably lost to Reyes. Half of the forum has been calling Bones overrated and calling his career garbage for looking mortal in a few recent fights. I stated some arguable facts, go ahead and dispute but dont call it troll job.

Picograms say Jones is the Goat of cheating, not mma