What is your GOAT list now?

[XThe GreatestX]

I know people love to shit at 125, but the skill level there is better than at heavyweight and light heavyweight and people never had problems declaring Jon Jones the GOAT.

I know i know, this sounds controversial, but really. Pretty much all featherweights are very well-rounded and skillful guys.

fair enough i guess. Although I think we would have a long back and forth about Jones's resume

but as for DJ. I just think when you get to this class of fighter and you see these resumes...

defenses against Wilson Reis, Ray Borg, Chris Cariso, Ali, etc.

it's just a little bit tough for me to put him in this discussion.

 

[Iron Nick]

fair enough i guess. Although I think we would have a long back and forth about Jones's resume

but as for DJ. I just think when you get to this class of fighter and you see these resumes...

defenses against Wilson Reis, Ray Borg, Chris Cariso, Ali, etc.

it's just a little bit tough for me to put him in this discussion.

That's okay, we're on a forum to discuss (mainly) after all.

Whether people agree with where i rank DJ or not, i just want more people to realize that flyweight has a lot of really skilled guys and they suffer more from not getting marketed enough/not being as marketable because they're not as scary as the bigger guys than anything.

 

[VVarhead]

1. Anderson
2. Fedor
3. GSP
4. Jones
5. Aldo
6. Minotauro
7. Werdum
8. Khabib
9. Sakuraba
10. DC

goes on with Couture, Liddell, BJ, Lyoto and others.
I don't care about FLW but I think it makes sense to include MM, I just personally don't because I didn't watch him.
Feel free to criticize

 

[xP]

when comparing him to this class of fighters yes

I find it sorta amusing you post a response like this and don't even quote the whole sentence lol

I didn't feel like writing the whole sentence but I was responding to the whole sentence. His resume is better than Anderson and Jones. Who are Anderson's wins that are so much better?

Have a different list than you, but basically still agree with what you've said.


Now i wouldn't say i agree with this video title, but if one takes the time to watch it, one will realize how different the level of skill is at 135 compared to 205.

Haven't seen this vid yet but i'm very familiar with these guys work so I can imagine what it entails. That's the main reason I have Jones low. He's in a shitey division.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

That's okay, we're on a forum to discuss (mainly) after all.

Whether people agree with where i rank DJ or not, i just want more people to realize that flyweight has a lot of really skilled guys and they suffer more from not getting marketed enough/not being as marketable because they're not as scary as the bigger guys than anything.

i'll put it to you this way.

I am a huge boxing guy.

I love Roy Jones Jr. But would I put Roy Jones Jr on an all time great p4p list on resume over say...Lennox Lewis?

Well Roy dominated a pretty mediocre (at the time) Middleweight, Super Middle and Light Heavyweight division in the 90's/Early 00's (with the exception of course of James Toney, a young Bernard Hopkins and Montell Griffin was not too bad either).

Whereas Lennox dominated a talent rich heavyweight division of the 90's with Evander, Ruddock, Mercer, Morrison etc.

So in these sorta lists, while it might be unfair to a Roy Jones it is the reality of it all

 

[TR1]

Fedor
GSP
Khabib












































Anderoid and Jon Jons.

 

[Iron Nick]

Haven't seen this vid yet but i'm very familiar with these guys work so I can imagine what it entails. That's the main reason I have Jones low. He's in a shitey division.

Yeah, i expected you to know this, lol.

I don't feel comfortable calling any division shitty, because i have a lot of respect for all fighters, but 205, especially since USADA came around, is not a stellar division, but at the very least, 135, 145 and 155 are aeons above it.

 

[xP]

Yeah, i expected you to know this, lol.

I don't feel comfortable calling any division shitty, because i have a lot of respect for all fighters, but 205, especially since USADA came around, is not a stellar division, but at the very least, 135, 145 and 155 are aeons above it.

yeah when i'm talking on an online karate forum i often speak in hyperbole. I have a lot of respect for Jon and LHW. but I just think it's so much harder to do what Aldo / Khabib did than what Jon did. It requires so much more.

 

[cauti0n]

Jones, Anderson, GSP, Fedor, Aldo, Cruz, DJ, DC, Khabib.

 

[Number 8]

Fedor
Gsp
Jones
Anderson

The rest...

 

[VVarhead]

yeah when i'm talking on an online karate forum i often speak in hyperbole. I have a lot of respect for Jon and LHW. but I just think it's so much harder to do what Aldo / Khabib did than what Jon did. It requires so much more.

I see your point but you have to take into account the power of the LHWs. It's harder to be consistent at higher weight classes historically in MMA, but LW is an outlier as not many champs have defended it that much. Also Jon fought 2 generations of fighters. He fought the Shoguns, the rashads, the belforts but he also fought the smiths, the reyes' and whatnot. (and yeah those decisions are flukey). It's rare for a champ to conquer 2 generations. Guys like Reyes had time to study Jones since they started MMA you have to take into consideration.

I agree overall though, also i agree so much that aldo is sooooo underrated here.

 

[aerius]

Fedor
GSP
Aldo

Jones and Anderson Silva would be on the list if they could keep roid needles from jabbing them in the butt.
Khabib is nowhere close and would need another 4-6 defences to get there, depending on the quality of his opponents.

 

[xP]

I see your point but you have to take into account the power of the LHWs. It's harder to be consistent at higher weight classes historically in MMA, but LW is an outlier as not many champs have defended it that much. Also Jon fought 2 generations of fighters. He fought the Shoguns, the rashads, the belforts but he also fought the smiths, the reyes' and whatnot. (and yeah those decisions are flukey).

I agree overall though, also i agree so much that aldo is sooooo underrated here.

Yeah, Jon is great for sure thats why he's still on my list. It's just about how great. I feel like I could move names around on my list without feeling too different about it.

I see what you're saying about power but I don't think the consistency thing applies to LHW as much as it does HW. I mean the talent turnout of the divisions below 170 is insane. The generations go faster. It's almost felt more than two generations down there since Shogun was champ, yaknow?

Age is also more of a limiting factor because of the speed. Idk, a million talking points you could go down.

 

[Andy 93]

GSP
DC

For me Khabib needs the Tony fight to complete his legacy

Edit: I'm not including fighters that have tested positive.

 

[tenniswhiz]

1. Conor
2. Fedor
3. GSP
4. Khabib
5. Anderson Silva (not DQ’d, but demoted)
6. Jon Jones (not DQ’d but demoted)
7. Platinum Mike Baroni

 

[theTKDguy]

After the retirement of a GOAT candidate how does your list look?

For me. I only rank by resume. So I have

1. Jones (if you want to DQ for steroids I understand, i just kinda assume they all are. But Jones's resume is absurd)
2. GSP
3a. Fedor
3b. Khabib
5. Anderson

Khabib-Fedor is crazy close imo

Because you kinda get into a Peak wins (Fedor-Cro Cop, Nog, etc. vs Khabib-Conor, Justin, Dustin etc.) and also wins over time which Khabib didn't lose, while Fedor had a tough last quarter of his career post prime.

How do you guys have it?

I kinda agree with your ranking. Can't decide between Fedor and khabib at no 3 either. I personally like fedor better but wouldn't argue if someome said bib.

Mighty mouse ahead of andy might be a hot take but i wouldn't argue against it either.

1, 2.GSP/JON
3,4.FEDOR/KHABIB
5,6.MM/ANDY

 

[Barteh]

Fedor
Silva
Jones
GSP

Clear top 4.

After that you might see guys like Hughes and Aldo etc.

Khabib? Maybe around the 50th place lmao.

 

[Iron Nick]

i'll put it to you this way.

I am a huge boxing guy.

I love Roy Jones Jr. But would I put Roy Jones Jr on an all time great p4p list on resume over say...Lennox Lewis?

Well Roy dominated a pretty mediocre (at the time) Middleweight, Super Middle and Light Heavyweight division in the 90's/Early 00's (with the exception of course of James Toney, a young Bernard Hopkins and Montell Griffin was not too bad either).

Whereas Lennox dominated a talent rich heavyweight division of the 90's with Evander, Ruddock, Mercer, Morrison etc.

So in these sorta lists, while it might be unfair to a Roy Jones it is the reality of it all

Those are fair and understandable arguments.

I have DJ so far up (basically at #1 alongside GSP) because while his division wasn't the biggest shark tank ever, his opponents were (as mentioned) still very good fighters and two of his losses came against fellow all time greats in Cruz and Cejudo (with the Cejudo fight being highly controversial).
His well-roundedness and ability to blend it all together is unmatched by everyone not named GSP and DJ might just be a better striker too, who knows.
So DJ stands at 30-3 now, was insanely dominant for a very long time (and still is, i guess), has not even the slightest asterisk next to any of his accomplishments and - as mentioned - almost exclusively lost to other greats of the sport - always by decision too.
GSP is also insanely well-rounded, fought in a shark tank of a division, was slightly less dominant than DJ, but still super dominant and managed to beat everyone he stepped in the cage against, with one of only two losses coming against the prime version of second most accomplished welterweight ever in Matt Hughes and GSP was very young too, back then - the fact that he finished Hughes twice is the icing on the cake in that regard.
Khabib's career - albeit i wish it could've lasted longer - was as close to flawless as it gets.
He fought in the most stacked divison of all time and displayed a level of dominance that was unheard of - he rarely had more than a scratch on him after his wins too, which is why i rank him extremely high.
I guess you can figure out somewhat why i ranked the other guys the way i did - i'm just too lazy to write much more right now, haha.

Take care!

 

[Iron Nick]

Fedor
Silva
Jones
GSP

Clear top 4.

After that you might see guys like Hughes and Aldo etc.

Khabib? Maybe around the 50th place lmao.

Khabib fought in a division which is better than that of any of the guys above with the exception of Aldo and maybe GSP.
He was absurdly dominant and rarely ever took damage.
His career might've been a bit short-lived, but it was pretty much flawless.

Saying you might rank him around the 50th place is nuts, sorry.

 

[Barteh]

Khabib fought in a division which is better than that of any of the guys above with the exception of Aldo and maybe GSP.
He was absurdly dominant and rarely ever took damage.
His career might've been a bit short-lived, but it was pretty much flawless.

Saying you might rank him around the 50th place is nuts, sorry.

GOATs are based on legacy not on (perceived) skill level. In that regard he's kinda like Cain. Cain might've been the best and most dominant HW ever but he's not in the top 5 HW goats.

Khabib literally has only FOUR top 5 wins. How does that even get him anywhere near a GOAT list? A list consisting of fighters who all have more than ten top 5 wins?