Social A serious question for liberals in this forum

[IGIT]

https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/?amp=1

They make up a quite large chunk, varying from poll to poll. Most seem to put independents at about 1/3 of registered voters. A sizeable amount, no?

hiya Err,

the thing is, most self identified "independents" are actually pretty partisan when it comes to their voting behavior. independents can also be as biased as the most rabid rightwinger or lefty.

i mean, a white nationalist is probably going to self identify as "independent", you know?

if you look deeper into the Gallup poll, you'll find only 13% of the self proclaimed independents say they don't lean one way or another. those are the actual independents, not the 42%.

*muses*

i don't know if this still happens, but CNN would always have a panel of "undecided" voters watching the debates, a month or two before the election, and they'd interview these folks for their observations.

i'd always listen to the concerns of these "undecided" folks, as they express their earnest confusion as to whom to vote for, and i've always thought...

...these people sure sound dumb. like, super stupid. i always figure it must be a condition that they've willed upon themselves and i wonder how they've been able to manage their adult lives.

- IGIT

 

[Err]

hiya Err,

the thing is, most self identified "independents" are actually pretty partisan when it comes to their voting behavior. independents can also be as biased as the most rabid rightwinger or lefty.

i mean, a white nationalist is probably going to self identify as "independent", you know?

if you look deeper into the Gallup poll, you'll find only 13% of the self proclaimed independents say they don't lean one way or another. those are the actual independents, not the 42%.

*muses*

i don't know if this still happens, but CNN would always have a panel of "undecided" voters watching the debates, a month or two before the election, and they'd interview these folks for their observations.

i'd always listen to the concerns of these "undecided" folks, as they express their earnest confusion as to whom to vote for, and i've always thought...

...these people sure sound dumb. like, super stupid. i always figure it must be a condition that they've willed upon themselves and i wonder how they've been able to manage their adult lives.

- IGIT

I agree, there are very few centrists in the literal sense. Almost everyone will lean one way to varying degrees. Without a doubt there are “independents” that are just as fervent in their support of the party in the direction they lean as someone who is a registered member of that party. There is also a large number of people that are swayed by single issues. Even amongst registered Dems/Republicans in 2016 4-5% of each reported voting for the opposite party.

As far as panels containing undecided voters and their intelligence level, I would chalk that up to ignorance. I find they tend to be average joe’s with no dog in the fight. The effect government has on their life is negligible and as a consequence of that they’ve cultivated no political identity. The result being a general unawareness and ignorance of politics.

 

[BFoe]

Could you ever imagine a conservative running for president that you wouldn't absolutely despise? Not that you'd ever vote for him, but if he were polite and well-spoken, and simultaneously embodied conservative values, would it be possible that you didn't completely hate his guts?

This is a totally serious question.

John Kasich. I legitimately respect Kasich, and had the 2016 election been between Hillary and Kasich, I’d have given serious thought to voting for him. In the end, Kasich probably wouldn’t have gotten my vote tbh, as he’s a bit too conservative on some things. I’d love to see him in the Biden cabinet though.

edit: I also would’ve been ok if McCain had won in 2008. I didn’t vote for him, but I could’ve handled a McCain presidency.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I dont recall a name, but if I were guessing I'd think possibly Grenel. I know that they're friends.

OK so the story isn't real, sounds like. That would explain why people haven't heard it.

 

[spamking]

Clinton and Biden are much more moral than Trunp. It's not even a question. IMO, any Christian who voted for Trump was either uninformed or doesn't really believe in their stated religion.

That's cute Jack. You're free to your opinion . . . . and I'm free to think you're biased. I never claimed Trump was some moral authority on any level. My being a Christian is about me. Not about Trump, Biden or Clinton. I didn't vote for him because I felt that he was a better Christian or more moral. I voted for him because I wanted to vote against the other two.

So I don't really appreciate you taking some moral high ground here by attempting to judge me and my relationship with Christ based on who I voted for . . . EVERY politician is a crook and morally bankrupt on some level. THAT'S not even a question.

 

[spamking]

I'm not so skeptical to think there aren't any well meaning policy measures. Sure there are plenty of pandering efforts on both sides of the aisle but some policy is based on belief.

I guess I don't see much difference in the two or care where the pandering comes from . . . .

 

[spamking]

hello JVS, good afternoon to you!

i think its both, actually. Christians who voted for Trump seem pretty poorly informed (i'd comfortably wager a year's salary that many of them aren't even clear whether or not our former POTUS, Mr. Obama, was an American citizen).

as to whether or not they really believe in the word of God? lol. the bible has something to say about false prophets, and those evangelicals for Trump weren't having it. they were like, "F Matthew 7:15, he sounds like a RINO".

- IGIT

Holy crap . . . I guess I should've known better than to bother attempting any sort of discussion here again.

Time to move on to another thread . . .

 

[PainIsLIfe]

OK so the story isn't real, sounds like. That would explain why people haven't heard it.

It was posted here In the WR.

Is it fake that he did Grenel's swearing in ceremony as well?

 

[Jack V Savage]

So I don't really appreciate you taking some moral high ground here by attempting to judge me and my relationship with Christ based on who I voted for . . . EVERY politician is a crook and morally bankrupt on some level. THAT'S not even a question.

It's not just me. I don't see any argument about Biden and Clinton not being way more moral than Trump. And obviously most politicians are like most people. No one is perfect, but to pretend that they're all bad is just part of a cheap rationalization to justify doing something that you know is wrong.

 

[Jack V Savage]

It was posted here In the WR.

Is it fake that he did Grenel's swearing in ceremony as well?

Hmm. Sounds made up. I am seeing a story that Pence ate with Grenel. BFD.

 

[Trotsky]

Well now you're mixing religious with conservative.

I was more speaking of things like Pence attending his gay friend's wedding, but the left generally portray him as being a homophobic bigot.

If you attend a gay friend's wedding, but oppose civil rights for gay persons such as right to marriage and rights against employment and housing discrimination, it doesn't mean you're not a bigot. It means you're a bigot and also a really shitty friend.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Hmm. Sounds made up. I am seeing a story that Pence ate with Grenel. BFD.

Pence did the swearing in of Grenel.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

If you attend a gay friend's wedding, but oppose civil rights for gay persons such as right to marriage and rights against employment and housing discrimination, it doesn't mean you're not a bigot. It means you're a bigot and also a really shitty friend.

He signed an order protecting religious freedom. He also signed a bill protecting LGBT from discrimination.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Clinton and Biden are much more moral than Trunp. It's not even a question. IMO, any Christian who voted for Trump was either uninformed or doesn't really believe in their stated religion.

It's not just me. I don't see any argument about Biden and Clinton not being way more moral than Trump. And obviously most politicians are like most people. No one is perfect, but to pretend that they're all bad is just part of a cheap rationalization to justify doing something that you know is wrong.

After Benghazi and the circulation of an audio clip of her bragging and laughing about defending a child rapist, you're going to claim that Hillary was the obvious moral choice in 2016? Yeah, ok.



Give it another listen and continue to lie to yourself, Jack. Let that partisanship erode your integrity a little further.

 

[thehighking]

Isn't it weird that liberal has become synonymous with authoritarian/totalitarian. I remember the days when liberal usually meant you wanted less restrictions and more freedoms for people. The people who now identify as liberal are the ones who push for more regulation and more authoritarian controls over people. It's weird.

 

[BIKES!]

After Benghazi and the circulation of an audio clip of her bragging and laughing about defending a child rapist, you're going to claim that Hillary was the obvious moral choice in 2016? Yeah, ok.



Give it another listen and continue to lie to yourself, Jack. Let that partisanship erode your integrity a little further.

He’s a propaganda minister. An old senile who on multiple platforms tries to appeal to the young adults by spouting decently written but wildly inaccurate depictions of history and current politics.

He’s first generation of the brainwashed ibid working overtime on the next generations.

 

[GreenGorilla]

Clinton and Biden are much more moral than Trunp. It's not even a question. IMO, any Christian who voted for Trump was either uninformed or doesn't really believe in their stated religion.

Clinton is not moral by any means someone who celebrates destroying the african nation with the best living standard in the continent over fear of a gold based currency is anything but moral.
Doesn't make Trump any better but they are both fucking pests.

 

[cleetus]

I'd like to know the opposite of that question.

could republicans getting behind a democrat president that they didn't despise?

say that Democrat was Tulsi Gabbard, could conservatives be on board with her as president?

No because of her open border policy. That’s a deal breaker. Other than that she is not bad.

 

[superpunch]

edit: I also would’ve been ok if McCain had won in 2008. I didn’t vote for him, but I could’ve handled a McCain presidency.

I don't believe that you would have been OK with a McCain presidency for a second. Bush and McCain both got plenty of the he's literally Hitler and he's a white supremacist treatment. You're just pretending to be more reasonable on Monday morning. You would have been out of your mind angry at him if he won.

That's basically why Trump was able to get away with everything he did. All the accusations of racism, sexism, immorality, all the name calling: people had seen it all before, and no longer took it seriously. The left cried wolf for so long that no one believed you when there really might have been a wolf.

 

[BFoe]

I don't believe that you would have been OK with a McCain presidency for a second. Bush and McCain both got plenty of the he's literally Hitler and he's a white supremacist treatment. You're just pretending to be more reasonable on Monday morning. You would have been out of your mind angry at him if he won.

That's basically why Trump was able to get away with everything he did. All the accusations of racism, sexism, immorality, all the name calling: people had seen it all before, and no longer took it seriously. The left cried wolf for so long that no one believed you when there really might have been a wolf.

Totally wrong.
I was born, raised, and lived the first 25 years of my life in Arizona. I’m quite familiar with McCain. My sister volunteered for one of his Senate campaigns in the 80s. I certainly disagreed with him on plenty—hence why I didn’t vote for him, for Senator or Pres—but I respected McCain as a patriot who cared about the country. He worked across the aisle with Russ Feingold to pass major campaign finance reform, he was a staunch supporter of veterans’ rights, and wasn’t afraid to call out his own party, as he did when he voted against the Bush tax cuts on 2 occasions, and later did when he voted against Trump’s shitpile of a health care bill.
Trump got away with what he did because people are often gullible and have been drowning in nonsense conspiracy news for decades, to the point where they don’t even know what reality is anymore. He ran a con on easily manipulated people.