Media Paulo Costa| Less than 350k is a joke

[kflo]

Why not? There is nothing illegal or unusual about a corporation with a standardized pay scale. It’s pretty mundane

I’m not aware of any skilled non-union workforce that has a standard pay scale. Especially if they are in the middle of a lawsuit claiming they are artificially suppressing wages.

They have ranges to operate in that are pretty wide.

 

[kflo]

The UFC is ripping off all fighters......fighters get like 18% of revenue, that's crap.



Paulo fair value, if UFC gave 50% of revenue, would be IMO 1-3million + PPV points if he headlines/co-main

Bellator pays about 50%. Maybe he can try that next.

 

[JKS]

I am not with Costa on this one, sorry. He's been involved in one big fight his entire career and he completely flopped and was embarrassed. UFC guys, especially the ones that bring in revenues deserve to get paid more. But I don't think Costa is there yet.

 

[EnthusiastCultivator]

He is right, he is one of the biggest names in the sport and has over 1M+ followers on Instagram and is getting less than 350K that’s ridiculous, cut some WMMA fighters that are holding down the cards or just be a little more generous to motivate their fighters.

Fighters are the backbone of the UFC.

 

[Jabbathehook]

Everyone knows it's a farce. The percentage of revenue that is paid to fighters is a farce, the lack of sponsorship opportunity is a farce.

Until they stop moaning as individuals, unionise and negotiate as a collective, it will remain a farce.

 

[You Will Vote For Dreyga]

I’m not aware of any skilled non-union workforce that has a standard pay scale. Especially if they are in the middle of a lawsuit claiming they are artificially suppressing wages.

They have ranges to operate in that are pretty wide.

Lawsuit is about anti-competive practices not wage suppression. Having a pay scale isn’t relevant to an arguments regarding competitive practices

 

[avenue94]

This is the way businesses work. A company can't just "turn a profit", it needs to turn enough profit to make it worth the investment it's owners put into it. Every company works that way, whether privately owned or corporate owned.

The UFC does this and then some. They've paid out over a billion in dividends over the past 15 years, and that's not even before discussing some of the outsized bonuses they pay out these days. You aren't going to find a lot of legal businesses with a profit margin in the neighborhood of 40 percent.

When you have a multibillion $$ company, it takes tens of millions per year (in this case, more than 100 million) just to outpace inflation,

Odd we're discussing making sure the UFC outpaces inflation, while fighter contracts, which last multiple years, have no COL or inflation adjustments, and the OTN bonuses haven't been adjusted for inflation since they were standardized about a decade ago.

Restrictive contracts are not unusual. If my union contractor caught me working for someone off the union books, I'd be in big trouble. MMA orgs don't want their fighters getting injured in other competitions and potentially costing them a million in marketing for a fight they pull out of a week before.

That's much more narrow than a UFC or mma contract. A UFC contract would be the equivalent of I work as a roofer, and until I finish the trade (I'm a contractor in this scenario) I can't pick up any other roofing draws or work laying down tile or dry wall. And then when I'm done, if the employer likes my work, I'm automatically locked in for another year or two at the same rate, then when that's done, I have to exclusively negotiate with them for 3 months, during which I can't work at all in that industry.

And obviously banning a fighter from doing risky activities during camp is perfectly fine. But banning a retired fighter who will never step foot in the cage again from boxing? That's a different story I think.

Monopolies are in fact illegal in America bud. Don’t know where you got your info on this case

i agree with you about the lawsuit (saying it's not about pay is liek saying the Civil War was about states rights), but monopolies and monopsonies are not illegal. They are only illegal if they are obtained unlawfully.

Yes, but why not ask it when the contract is over? Going to twitter amounts to nothing.

Because who knows if he'll be coming off a win in 4 fights or have suffered a career ending injury in the meantime. 2 years is a really long time to gamble.

 

[10mm]

I agree with him, but he needs a win or 2 before he started these demands. Him and JJ are deleted from Danas phone.

 

[avenue94]

you are meant to win the title before demanding pay, not shit the bed lol

So only a dozen fighters each year (assuming every champ loses) is allowed to ask for a raise? Sounds like a really shit industry lol.

Ah, right, the ufc controls the rankings......you definitely proved there is no independence there......might as well continue to present it as fact.

@Dreyga2000 this is why......

You're in the minority on this one, most people who follow the sport don't think the UFC rankings are independent.

I haven’t seen fighters reference a set pay scale for ranked fighters.

Again, don’t you think that would be disclosed as an important fact in the lawsuit?

I’m not saying it’s not true, just I haven’t seen it and I do think it’s not something they’d want to publicize. And probably not a good practice.

What makes you so sure? A lot of fighters have referenced that UFC has a set pay scale

They have a disclosed minimum, that's in the lawsuit documents. It's used most of the time, since obviously 80 percent of new signees don't have identical market and wage value. Past that, it's probably not standardized, and any tiers of pay are more likely just the result of UFC negotiations (they know what they are paying other fighters, managers may not). A payscale is too mericratic for a promoter to use, not a huge upside to it.

 

[avenue94]

I am not with Costa on this one, sorry. He's been involved in one big fight his entire career and he completely flopped and was embarrassed. UFC guys, especially the ones that bring in revenues deserve to get paid more. But I don't think Costa is there yet.

Since I think we can agree he was underpaid for his title shot, would you as a fan be ok with him making more now as compensation for that, even if his last performance was shit?

The period of time when a UFC fighter should be making the most money and the time when they have the most leverage often aren't identical.

 

[Fight Professor]

That performance against Izzy is not something that gives him any leverage to negotiate.

 

[kflo]

Lawsuit is about anti-competive practices not wage suppression. Having a pay scale isn’t relevant to an arguments regarding competitive practices

This is straight from the complaint:

Zuffa used its monopsony power to suppress the compensation it paid its Fighters below competitive levels (and its monopoly power to decrease the supply and inflate the prices of MMA events ).​

I can’t see how it’s not relevant. It would be a direct validation of the complaint if they can actually literally just set the price they pay.

 

[IDGETKTFO]

G@y pornstars make less then $3500 for 30 minutes of work .

 

[kflo]

You're in the minority on this one, most people who follow the sport don't think the UFC rankings are independent.

Most people? Most people have no idea what they are talking about. Again, you keep presenting this as if it’s a factual piece of information based on nothing factual.

 

[avenue94]

Most people? Most people have no idea what they are talking about. Again, you keep presenting this as if it’s a factual piece of information based on nothing factual.

Hey you are free to believe that the UFC doesn't control the rankings that they pay for. I'm not going to try to change your mind here. Most people do not know what they are talking about, but in this case I'm inclined to think the masses are right. Having promoters control their own rankings in general is bad for fighters.

 

[avenue94]

This is straight from the complaint:

Zuffa used its monopsony power to suppress the compensation it paid its Fighters below competitive levels (and its monopoly power to decrease the supply and inflate the prices of MMA events ).​

I can’t see how it’s not relevant. It would be a direct validation of the complaint if they can actually literally just set the price they pay.

The lawsuit isn't directly over whether or not the UFC has monopsony power, since having one isn't illegal. A payscale wouldn't really hurt the UFC's arguments/defense since they aren't arguing that they are not a monopsony or have that power.
Having said that, from what I recall Joe Silva never mentioned a payscale. And I imagine it would have been noted if he did when deposed. Then again, Joe Silva also certainly lied during depositions.

 

[You Will Vote For Dreyga]

You're in the minority on this one, most people who follow the sport don't think the UFC rankings are independent.

Just because most people believe it doesn't mean it's accurate. There is no hard evidence to support that.

They have a disclosed minimum, that's in the lawsuit documents. It's used most of the time, since obviously 80 percent of new signees don't have identical market and wage value. Past that, it's probably not standardized, and any tiers of pay are more likely just the result of UFC negotiations (they know what they are paying other fighters, managers may not). A payscale is too mericratic for a promoter to use, not a huge upside to it.

Luke Thomas sat down with Aerick Koerner, a PhD candidate at American University in Washington, D.C. An expert in statistical analysis, and examined what factors contributed to fighter pay and which didn't.

In the examination they found evidence that there is a standardized scale for pay depending on rank and division.

Check it out. It's long watch but it does illuminate alot of fascinating information about UFC fighter pay.

 

[kflo]

The UFC does this and then some. They've paid out over a billion in dividends over the past 15 years, and that's not even before discussing some of the outsized bonuses they pay out these days. You aren't going to find a lot of legal businesses with a profit margin in the neighborhood of 40 percent.

Those are averages. Not just the leading company.

 

[avenue94]

Just because most people believe it doesn't mean it's accurate. There is no hard evidence to support that.

Normally, I'd be inclined to not believe something until I see hard evidence but given:
1. UFC paid for the rankings and continue to do so.
2. There is a huge benefit to controlling rankings of your fighters
3. Questionable rankings over the years
4. Opacity of rankings and how it's down, not to mention every journalist on the board has their own way of ranking
5. Emails to ranking members every week with guidance

I'm willing to lower my standard of evidence here given that we're never going to see UFC emails to find out if they communicate with the ranking org and to what extent if they do.

In the examination they found evidence that there is a standardized scale for pay depending on rank and division.

Check it out. It's long watch but it does illuminate alot of fascinating information about UFC fighter pay.

I would be careful assuming correlation (that an informal pay scale exists) means causation (that they use rankings to determine scale). Obviously, you have to win fights to stay in the UFC and get raises, so you're going to presumably be rising up the ranks at the same time. What I doubt exists is rank 1-5 gets ___, 6-10 gets ___, etc. What's the upside for the UFC to do that?

 

[avenue94]

Those are averages. Not just the leading company.
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Don't know where you pulled it from or what exactly I'm looking at, but kind of my point. By EBITDA, the UFC is pretty high up, among industries known for such good labor practices as tobacco. Not to mention most of those companies aren't paying 20 percent for effectively most of their labor cost and also their product cost.