Social Uncomfortable Conversations: "The right kind of refugee"

[ElKarlo]

The new world and old are different stories. From depth and rigidity of culture and openness to change to acceptable behavior. For example, if I had to seek refuge I'd head straight to Europe as my social norms are acceptable and it would be a seamless transition. Sure there's other options, but the last place you'd see me go, should they even accept me is any Arab state. Nevermind I'm classified as a terrorist in some so not even allowed. Would rejecting me make them racist? Lol. Give me a break.

I agree. People can go to certain places and blend in and basically be come part of the place soon. I could do that in some places like Europe and Oz but I would have trouble in places like India or SA. And you’re right rejecting people based off how you’d integrate isn’t racism it’s being realistic and not suicidal

 

[Islam Imamate]

I agree it's an incredibly stupid comment. However I don't think it's necessarily racist. I think it's just a lot easier for it to hit home when the people you're seeing on TV look like your family members.

Not that I feel that way myself. Truthfully, I feel next to nothing. People have been getting slaughtered like this my whole life (but people care now because???). It's just another reminder of humanities failures.

I think that's a very charitable reading and I wonder if you reversed the races if your reaction and those of others would be the same.

I agree. People can go to certain places and blend in and basically be come part of the place soon. I could do that in some places like Europe and Oz but I would have trouble in places like India or SA. And you’re right rejecting people based off how you’d integrate isn’t racism it’s being realistic and not suicidal

Is it racism if you mention their race or maybe something like hair or eye color as part of their compatibility?

 

[bobgeese]

I think that's a very charitable reading and I wonder if you reversed the races if your reaction and those of others would be the same.

Is it racism if you mention their race or maybe something like hair or eye color as part of their compatibility?

Don't get me wrong, it's absolutely full potato to say it, and it absolutely reads like a racist statement. I just think it's human nature rather than racism.

Look at, for instance, how Black people in the US get outraged when criminals get shot (some even in the process of shooting at the police). It's not like they are criminals, or even support that particular criminal, it's just they see someone that looks like them suffering and it creates an emotional reaction.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Don't get me wrong, it's absolutely full potato to say it. I just think it's human nature rather than racism.

Look at, for instance, how Black people in the US get outraged when criminals get shot (some even in the process of shooting at the police). It's not like they are criminals, or even support that particular criminal, it's just they see someone that looks like them suffering and it creates an emotional reaction.

If a black person said that the suffering of those guys was different because they're black, my bet is you'd call it racism and you wouldn't be off base to do so. And yet somehow in this instance, where race is explicitly invoked, its not racism. I don't think those reporters and officials are die hard racists necessarily but in the heat of the moment they said something that was pretty racist. At least we agree it was at the very least incredibly unprofessional.

 

[Deorum]

Nigerians immigrants quietly do the best numbers in terms of education and prosperity when they come to North America. It's something that gives me a sense of low key pride.

It's true, and it damn well should.

I even remember bringing this up years ago, lolz.

Baldy's a Hungarian-Canadian so I'm not sure if it's comparable up there but the particular Nigerian immigrants to the United States are quite easily among the most successful ethnic subgroups in the country, especially where educational attainment is concerned. 30% of Nigerian-Americans over the age of 25 have a graduate degree (compared to 11% of the US population). It's no joke, they're literally doctors and engineers; getting to be up there with the Indians and Persians.

 

[ElKarlo]

I think that's a very charitable reading and I wonder if you reversed the races if your reaction and those of others would be the same.

Is it racism if you mention their race or maybe something like hair or eye color as part of their compatibility?

Is it the correlation or just because? They don’t integrate has nothing to do withtheir race, but it seems that people from certain places don’t integrate. That probably has made people realize that there’s a group that doesn’t integrate and have sexual emergencies. Meaning they don’t want those people to live in their country. Call it what you will. I think no wanting mass immigration from areas of peace is a policy that most nations should embrace.

 

[ElKarlo]

It's true, and it damn well should.

I even remember bringing this up years ago, lolz.

Wonder if that has to do with it being so far that the setup costs necessitates only the wealthy abs well educated can get to the USA? It’s def interesting and an odd situation with Nigerians. The ones in the USA are def well educated and are good at making it work.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Is it the correlation or just because? They don’t integrate has nothing to do withtheir race, but it seems that people from certain places don’t integrate. That probably has made people realize that there’s a group that doesn’t integrate and have sexual emergencies. Meaning they don’t want those people to live in their country. Call it what you will. I think no wanting mass immigration from areas of peace is a policy that most nations should embrace.

Huh? Buddy, I'm talking about the comments by reporters and even a Ukrainian officials where they explicitly mention their race and phenotype. Are you not paying attention? Multiple public figures have said that this conflict is different because the victims are white and European, I don't how much more clear they would have to be for you to notice.

 

[Rand M Arthur]

Of course, pretty easy to send the women, children, and elderly away when safe harbor is a train ride of a few hours away. I believe there were trains from Aleopp, Hama, and Damascus to cities in Southeast Turkey and I imagine most of the women/kids/elderly took those early on before they were out of use, hence Turkey being the nation that houses the most Syrian refugees.

But for women and children to go from Syria to Europe? Especially the poor later on in the war? Well, you gotta risk this happening

So not some mystery as to why women and children weren't making the trip. Kind of odd that this obvious point escapes so many people.

I'm going to flip this over, I've noticed brown and black people get highly offended by the idea that white people would be granted asylum in the first place. I think this is because it completely flips the intersectional pyramid on its head. It's the same as the child victims of gang rape in Britain, or the mass rapes in Germany, or the school attacks in France. These victims look like what you've been told ypur entire life the oppressor should look like. Except intersectionality is a cult of nonsense. It almost like some people can't feel empathy for light skinned people, and can only empathise with those who look like them. Kind of ironic.... given the thematic undertones of the thread.

Ukraine is European, it borders many of the countries that took the brunt of the migration crisis. Ukrainiand literally move one country over to get to Poland, Hungary, or Romania. Meanwhile, economic migrants move through multiple safe countries to get to where they are going before they even hit Europe.

The Ukrainian evacuation is being organized hy their government. The migrants are channelled by human traffickers, that then use those funds to support terrorism or import drugs into Europe. The most casual bit of research would show Europeans are in favour of refugees from UN processing centres, even African or Middle Eastern ones.

Also, Fortress Europe is a very real mindset. Much like many Indians generally have absolute distain for Brits or West Africans do for the French. For many centuries before the Age of Exploration, Europe was a global backwater that took invasion after invasion, apocalyptic diseases, and had its people enslaved and sold off to invaders. When they finally grew strong enough to strike back, they did with such ferocity as to never be in that weak position again. It is a similar mindset to China's Century of Humiliation or the LaRaza movement for Latino Amerindians

This is purely culturally based, not racial. Again, Christian Syrians are encouraged to move here. During the Muslim Brotherhood goverment, there were overtures to offer the Coptic Egyptians refugee status because of the open violence directed against them by Sunni supremecists. Multiracialism is essential for a people to survive, multiculturalism is being tested to its limits.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I'm going to flip this over, I've noticed brown and black people get highly offended by the idea that white people would be granted asylum in the first place. I think this is because it completely flips the intersectional pyramid on its head. It's the same as the child victims of gang rape in Britain, or the mass rapes in Germany, or the school attacks in France. These victims look like what you've been told ypur entire life the oppressor should look like. Except intersectionality is a cult of nonsense. It almost like some people can't feel empathy for light skinned people, and can only empathise with those who look like them. Kind of ironic.... given the thematic undertones of the thread.

Ukraine is European, it borders many of the countries that took the brunt of the migration crisis. Ukrainiand literally move one country over to get to Poland, Hungary, or Romania. Meanwhile, economic migrants move through multiple safe countries to get to where they are going before they even hit Europe.

The Ukrainian evacuation is being organized hy their government. The migrants are channelled by human traffickers, that then use those funds to support terrorism or import drugs into Europe. The most casual bit of research would show Europeans are in favour of refugees from UN processing centres, even African or Middle Eastern ones.

Also, Fortress Europe is a very real mindset. Much like many Indians generally have absolute distain for Brits or West Africans do for the French. For many centuries before the Age of Exploration, Europe was a global backwater that took invasion after invasion, apocalyptic diseases, and had its people enslaved and sold off to invaders. When they finally grew strong enough to strike back, they did with such ferocity as to never be in that weak position again. It is a similar mindset to China's Century of Humiliation or the LaRaza movement for Latino Amerindians

This is purely culturally based, not racial. Again, Christian Syrians are encouraged to move here. During the Muslim Brotherhood goverment, there were overtures to offer the Coptic Egyptians refugee status because of the open violence directed against them by Sunni supremecists. Multiracialism is essential for a people to survive, multiculturalism is being tested to its limits.

Where? Idk if I've ever seen that.

 

[cmw43]

There are millions of people in Yemen, Congo, Eritrea and other countries who are anything but economic refugees but from areas that are experiencing wars and human rights abuses that are far more brutal than anything that is going on in Ukraine.

It's good that Canada is so willing to accept refugees but you do have the advantage of a small population and tonnes of space.

Example Canada has 3.4 people per square KM, the UK has 240 people so it's a bit more crowded and we still take in tonnes of refugees.

 

[Rand M Arthur]

Where? Idk if I've ever seen that.

All over instagram and tiktok on European feeds. Quite a lot of a mainstream minority celebs are promiting this idea that Europe is racist for allowing Ukrainians in. Then again, elected minority politicians literally told teenage gangrape victims, over Twitter, to keep their mouths shut to not ruin the reputation of minority communities.

 

[Islam Imamate]

All over instagram and tiktok on European feeds. Quite a lot of a mainstream minority celebs are promiting this idea that Europe is racist for allowing Ukrainians in. Then again, elected minority politicians literally told teenage gangrape victims, over Twitter, to keep their mouths shut to not ruin the reputation of minority communities.

Huh? So? Its social media, people say dumb shit there left and right. I'm sure some Antifa dork said something like that and yet on the other hand we're talking about BBC reporters and former Ukrainian officials on international television saying that the victims of this war are different because they're white, in some cases explicitly contrasting them with Syrians and other Near Easterners. Even an Al Jazeera English reporter said something like that.

 

[Goonerview]

It's good that Canada is so willing to accept refugees but you do have the advantage of a small population and tonnes of space.

Example Canada has 3.4 people per square KM, the UK has 240 people so it's a bit more crowded and we still take in tonnes of refugees.

A lot of Canada’s “space” is uninhabitable tundra.

In terms of arable, livable land, Canada is a small country. So, your population density argument doesn’t make any sense.

 

[ElKarlo]

Huh? Buddy, I'm talking about the comments by reporters and even a Ukrainian officials where they explicitly mention their race and phenotype. Are you not paying attention? Multiple public figures have said that this conflict is different because the victims are white and European, I don't how much more clear they would have to be for you to notice.

So Europeans caring about Europeans is wrong?
Thought it was ok for Arabs to stick together? Which under certain circumstances they do and they make it clear.

 

[Islam Imamate]

So Europeans caring about Europeans is wrong?
Thought it was ok for Arabs to stick together? Which under certain circumstances they do and they make it clear.

No its not wrong, obviously they should be helping Ukrainians. Poland, a NATO country, is literally a train ride away so of course take the refugees. Turkey was also a NATO country and a train ride away from many Syrians, hence Turkey took the most Syrian refugees even despite the ethnic and linguistic distinction.

Just saying, don't be surprised when people sense some racism when reporters and officials on international mainstream outlets are openly citing the race of the refugees as the distinguishing factor here. You made it seem like TS bringing up race was out of left field despite the obvious facts here pointing in that direction. He doesn't even say its the primary reason and I agree, policymakers don't give a shit about race. @12ga. is right, the main reason there's action from governments in favor of the Ukrainian refugees is because they are victimized by Russia. If the Muslim republics had broken off from Russia after the fall of the USSR and were being invaded today I think you'd see a mostly similar reaction minus for the weird fixation on their eye/hair color.

 

[Rand M Arthur]

Huh? So? Its social media, people say dumb shit there left and right. I'm sure some Antifa dork said something like that and yet on the other hand we're talking about BBC reporters and former Ukrainian officials on international television saying that the victims of this war are different because they're white, in some cases explicitly contrasting them with Syrians and other Near Easterners. Even an Al Jazeera English reporter said something like that.

I'm not talking about nobodies like you and me. I'm talking about elected representatives or people on primetime TV every Friday & Saturday night.

I'm not sure how to link story feeds from insta.

 

[Rand M Arthur]

A lot of Canada’s “space” is uninhabitable tundra.

In terms of arable, livable land, Canada is a small country. So, your population density argument doesn’t make any sense.

Large parts of the 'tundra' are perfectly inhabbitable. Just wear a coat and toque, and don't be a pussy. In fact, fact the colder parts of the country are the bread basket of the country.

Whereas there are areas of Europe that legitimately don't have space. The density in southern England, the Neatherlands, the Rhineland, Thrace, ect is insane.

 

[Goonerview]

I imagine that all cultures and peoples have a degree of in-group preference to some extent, and this is completely natural.

To slap a label on it such “bigotry” or “racism” is just silly. This is just natural social dynamics.

 

[SanchoMF]

Has anyone chimed in on the fact that the Ukrainian men (18-60) stay behind (forced or not forced doesn't matter) and send the children and women to seek temporary refuge to mostly their neighbouring countries..?
I've seen two groups of Ukrainian refugees that have now somehow made their way to Paris and they're women and children only.

This is how the world worked in Europe during the WW2 and I understand the overflowing sympathy in this regard because it's far more relatable to Europeans than a hundreds of thousands of able-bodied men crossing continents fucking up the asylum/refugee system.