Russia/Ukraine Megathread V5

[lsa]

Lolz.

I have the Týr rune on my EDC chain.

Well runes are not Nazi anything, its part of the Scandinavian history and heritage.
Sadly Nazis has been allowed to take them and use them, and in some cases manage to make certain runs / symbols banned.
Which is insane.

The Danes still uses the Raven flag to this day.

 

[Bargey]

The old “those guys are Nazis so support us” trick. There’s bad apples in every army, every population in the world but desperate Russian propaganda will always be desperate

 

[Vergilius]

Your first link.

Vladimir Putin has urged the Ukrainian military to "take power into its own hands" and overthrow president Volodymyr Zelensky.

In an apparent reference to Ukraine's leadership, the Russian president told troops it will be "easier to negotiate with you" than the "gang of Nazis that has captured Kyiv".

"I once again appeal to the military personnel of the armed forces of Ukraine: do not allow neo-Nazis to use your children, wives and elders as human shields," Mr Putin said.

"Take power into your own hands, it will be easier for us to reach an agreement

That's not a demand is it.. despite the headline. that's hopeful propaganda by putin lol..


Looking dead-eyed into the camera on Friday, Vladimir Putin gave one of the most bizarre speeches of his 22 years as Russia’s leader, a directive that managed to sound alarming even in a week when he has ordered tanks into Ukraine and missile strikes on Kyiv.

“Once again I speak to the Ukrainian soldiers,” he said, addressing his enemy. “Do not allow neo-Nazis and Banderites to use your children, your wives and the elderly as a human shield. Take power into your own hands. It seems that it will be easier for us to come to an agreement than with this gang of drug addicts and neo-Nazis.”


None of these articles claim what you think they say... none of them say that the overthrow of Kiev is the goal....

Has his rhetoric changed? Yes.. but not his stated goals at the beginning, middle and current goals with what he's put on the table in his negotiation deals.... they're pretty much identical

The links claim exactly what he says, even in the parts you are quoting. You have to be willfully blind if you cannot see that Putin is coming WAY down on his demands... but I guess willfully blind is good description of the way you and a few other posters here argue.

 

[Vergilius]

Could be bad... what is stopping Russia from helping any insurgency around the world trying to kill American soldiers? I think they have not done that since Vietnam...How many countries are US forces in? How many of them have people that don't like them? Blowback?

Imagine if the Taliban had igla and verba missles how much more death we'd had in Afghanistan.

For one thing, Russia would be incredibly stupid to arm the Taliban which is right on their own doorstep.

 

[ElKarlo]

Well runes are not Nazi anything, its part of the Scandinavian history and heritage.
Sadly Nazis has been allowed to take them and use them, and in some cases manage to make certain runs / symbols banned.
Which is insane.

The Danes still uses the Raven flag to this day.

But some of those guys are doing black face. Might as well be a nazi flag

 

[Source]

Denazification was the 'stated goal'.

He called the Ukrainian regime 'nazis'.

How do you denazify and demilitarise Ukraine without regime change?

Putin was even more direct about regime change than that. In his original speech he said this:

“Its goal is to protect people who have been subjected to abuse and genocide by the regime in Kyiv for eight years. …”

“…as well as bringing to justice those who committed numerous bloody crimes against civilians, including citizens of the Russian Federation. …”


That sounds like regime change to me.

 

[lsa]

But some of those guys are doing black face. Might as well be a nazi flag

Dammit, now Putin will invade...

 

[San Marino]

Why is Zelensky bringing up 'Pearl Harbor,' 9/11, and 'MLK' on his speech to the US Congress?
That is a bit insulting in my opinion - as an American. That is not Ukrainian history. Stick to the Hitler and German invasion of Europe story. He does not need a 'no-fly zone.' 75% of the destruction in cities is coming from artillery rounds on the ground. The Russians are flying very few sorties over the Ukraine. They are afraid of being shot down. MiG-29s are not going to help. A lot of maintenance per flying hour. Who would be doing that and how? What about fuel and armament? Would those air bases not be bombed by Russian artillery also? What does he (and others) not understand about US planes shooting down Russian planes over Ukraine starting a 3rd WW? The possible use of nuclear weapons. It would no longer be about Ukraine. The Ukrainian Army is doing just fine with ground-to-air missiles. Anything currently flying is Russian - shoot it down!

 

[ElKarlo]

Dammit, now Putin will invade...

Bet that Nordstream II is a fake. Bet it’s really an invasion tunnel to get rid of black faces bigots in Denmark. You heard it here first

 

[tramendous]

I’m comparing this war to the gulf war in the 90s. The Russian military should of had complete dominance in the air like we did with Iraq in the 90s. They don’t have air dominance, which is what giving them a lot of problems. A lot of Russians are deserting due to low moral and poor logistics and communications. They don’t even have MREs. And a lot of them are poorly trained. Iraq had the most biggest and most powerful military in the world during the 90s and we destroyed them. Russia is losing because they suck at conventional warfare. If they are already losing the conventional war, then imagine how bad they would lose during the insurgency if they succeed in the invasion. Dealing with the insurgency in Iraq after the 2003 Iraq invasion was not easy either. A lot of suicidal bombers, IED bombs, but the Americans keep casualties to a minimum. They are just better at war than the Russians.

Lol they were not the biggest and certainly not the most powerful. They had no way to effectively stop the air threat and all their tanks were completely outmatched by American ones. The Americans were able to see and hit iraqi tanks before Iraqis could even see them. American bradleys with TOW missiles were a threat to iraqi tanks. Anyone who thinks Iraqi military was something vs American or any major 1st world military is delusional. They didnt even have the best soviet tank models. They had shitty export versions that lacked essential modern upgrades.

Just look at this turkey shoot:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_73_Easting

The ukrainian army is waaay better than the gulf war iraqi army. In the short term with Ukraine having similar equipment and some more advanced equipment and similar to better training than Russians and fighting defensively, this is a war between much more closely matched opponents. Its akin to if Texas broke away, kept all its military hardware and the US had to invade and the whole world was giving them weapons. Also if Insurgents in Iraq had the assistance that NATO is providing Ulraine, US would have had waaay higher casualties. Battles like Fallujah would have caused US enormous casualties if the insurgents had ATGMs like Javelin, NLAW and MANPADs like stingers.

 

[Anewt]

The links claim exactly what he says, even in the parts you are quoting. You have to be willfully blind if you cannot see that Putin is coming WAY down on his demands... but I guess willfully blind is good description of the way you and a few other posters here argue.

Really? They never once made that demand to the Ukrainian government. But you do you

 

[GoldenWolf87]

Why is Zelensky bringing up 'Pearl Harbor,' 9/11, and 'MLK' on his speech to the US Congress?
That is a bit insulting in my opinion - as an American. That is not Ukrainian history. Stick to the Hitler and German invasion of Europe story. He does not need a 'no-fly zone.' 75% of the destruction in cities is coming from artillery rounds on the ground. The Russians are flying very few sorties over the Ukraine. They are afraid of being shot down. MiG-29s are not going to help. A lot of maintenance per flying hour. Who would be doing that and how? What about fuel and armament? Would those air bases not be bombed by Russian artillery also? What does he (and others) not understand about US planes shooting down Russian planes over Ukraine starting a 3rd WW? The possible use of nuclear weapons. It would no longer be about Ukraine. The Ukrainian Army is doing just fine with ground-to-air missiles. Anything currently flying is Russian - shoot it down!

I was insulted when he brought that up.

They are afraid of being shot down. MiG-29s are not going to help

The Russians already took the skies according to some on twitter.

What does he (and others) not understand about US planes shooting down Russian planes over Ukraine starting a 3rd WW?

Why do you think a no fly zone was avoided in Syria? it means going to war with both countries Syrians and Russians, he claimed at the Canadian parliament that a no fly zone would mean less human loss? that is wrong.

 

[Vergilius]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...estimate-7000-russian-troops-dead-in-ukraine/

So the US "conservatively" estimates 7000 Russians KIA and 14000-21000 wounded. That brings us above the 10% casualty threshold that starts causing units of troops to malfunction. And it's a "conservative" estimate, meaning it's likely higher. It's staggering. Young Russian men getting thrown into a meat grinder by their fool of a president and his spineless cronies for no reason at all.

We can't be sure about the numbers, of course, but US intelligence has been pretty spot on so far in this conflict, so it seems they have good sources.

 

[GoldenWolf87]

Our media has been very quiet about the Neo Nazi faction in Ukraine. It is a very dumb argument to say there is no issue with Neo Nazis because Zelensky is Jewish, as if Ukrainians can not have several factions all unite to oppose Russia.

At the same time, the Russian justification of eradicating Nazis is B.S.

Our media is very quiet on Ukraine in general. They dont want us to know that Ukraine has different types of military.
National guard and from what i read the neo nazis are also within the National guard.

 

[Vergilius]

Really? They never once made that demand to the Ukrainian government. But you do you

No, I do facts. You do absolute Bullsh*t and have throughout this thread.

 

[GoldenWolf87]

Well runes are not Nazi anything, its part of the Scandinavian history and heritage.
Sadly Nazis has been allowed to take them and use them, and in some cases manage to make certain runs / symbols banned.
Which is insane.

The Danes still uses the Raven flag to this day.

Do they have a police on the street that hurting minorities on the street?

 

[bobgeese]

Think they legit have been killing people for a while in the east of Ukraine. They are pretty mean and do some awful stuff

I'm sure they have. It still doesn't make them Nazi's. There's killing people, and then there is killing tens of thousand of people (and that still pales in comparison to what the nazis did).

 

[KnightTemplar]

One of Russia's reasons for invading Ukraine is to remove the Neo-Nazis. Some people scoff, but this article from a mainstream, international, website explains the situation well. Ukraine was a WWII battlefield, and it was torn between the two sides. Ukraine had partisans who fought for the Nazis. Some of these people are considered heroes by many in the country.



After the fall of the USSR, many Ukrainians with fascist tendencies, who were suppressed, began to become influential again.



This eventually led to the rise of Neo-Nazis, and entities like the Azov Battalion. This was formerly a militia, but has now been incorporated into the regular army.



Old, Nazi symbols are recycled by the Azov Battalion to represent their fascist ideology. The leaders of this movement were tied to the original Nazi partisans from WWII. There is a definite link that reasonable people cannot deny.

The article covers more ground than I could put here, so if you are really interested, I suggest reading the whole article. Discuss.

When "Ukrainian Nazis" threaten to drag the entire world into Nuclear War, then I might give a shit. Until then, fuck Russia. They are the Big Bad here. There is no grey area.

 

[Anewt]

No, I do facts. You do absolute Bullsh*t and have throughout this thread.

Your " facts " as to Russia's demands are literally putin addressing Ukrainian soldiers..

They're not his demands at all. But carry-on

 

[Deorum]

Well runes are not Nazi anything, its part of the Scandinavian history and heritage.
Sadly Nazis has been allowed to take them and use them, and in some cases manage to make certain runs / symbols banned.
Which is insane.

The Danes still uses the Raven flag to this day.

Norse paganism is a treasure trove of aesthetic riches. There are unfortunately a bunch of them that have come to be considered "hate symbols" today on a particular online database. Among them are the Algiz (ᛉ), Othala (ᛟ), Sowilo (ᛋ) and Týr (ᛏ) runes. I've also seen the Ægishjálmr, Mjölnir and Valknut symbols listed as well. I don't care, and will not play that game.