Movies Serious Movie Discussion

[sickc0d3r]

To be fair, it's been a million years since I've watched it. But I watched it twice, the first time because of the hype and the second time to see if I missed something the first time. It definitely felt like it wanted to be a more contemporary The Magnificent Seven, packing in a bunch of cool dudes saying and doing cool stuff. Maybe I'm holding the fact that it's not The Magnificent Seven against it too much.

Hmmm. Makes me think, there’s a decent possibility that Tombstone is more likely to be appreciated by people who are not a big fan of westerns in general, which I am not. Never even seen The Magnificent Seven.

 

[BisexualMMA]

I mean, I want to love every movie that Michael Biehn is in, which is why I even love an unknown gem like American Dragons

You're in for a world of hurt if you even try to WATCH every movie that Michael Biehn is in, much less love them all. To use his words from The Rock it has been a maze of shit since...well, The Rock.

Planet Terror is the only thing I can think of since the mid 90s that I could call above average.

 

[Rimbaud82]

The Northman basically feels like a litmus test for how much you like anthropology.

I would also like to congratulate @Rimbaud82 for dipping into Monte Hellman's films. Sadly I can't say more about his Westerns save for: "yes they were delectable in their minimalsim and artistic sensebilities! Very much agree!"

Bullseye rimbaud!

I remember having much more positive memories of this flick.

Jose Ferrer absolutely sells Montmartre and his love for the Bohemian scene (as you'd expect).

Also really remember being taken in by the ending when he hallucinates the dancers.

Other than the visuals it just didn't land with me at all. And when I was younger I was an absinthe drinking, poetry reading dork who loved this period of French history! Well come to think of it I probably still am Point is I went in expecting to love it!

The best film about a painter still remains Edvard Munch (1974)

Pretty much with you on this one, though I share europe's love of José Ferrer. John Huston was a very hit-or-miss filmmaker. He could crush shit out of the park like his collaborations with Bogart, but he could also make real weird duds that make you question your sense of the man as an artist

I need to see more Huston to be fair. His adaptation of Joyce's The Dead is on of my absolutely favourites though. Watch it every christmas.

I specifically came in here last time to post about The Northman - I hadn't even noticed that Rimbaud just watched Unforgiven. One of the GOATs for sure and easily a top five Western. Rimbaud, I don't know how much superhero shit you've bothered with, but if you haven't seen Logan, not only is it basically a superhero Western, but it's clearly riffing on Shane and Unforgiven. If you haven't seen it yet - and while we're on the subject, if you haven't seen Shane - now's the time

Tis fantastic to be sure. Shane is another one I have been meaning to get around to for a hell of a long time.

don't know how much superhero shit you've bothered with

Oh the humanity! Don't you know me at all Bullitt!

Well actually I did watch that Logan one ages ago when it came out. I vaguely remember thinking it was definitely better than the usual superhero shite, but other than that I can't say I remember much.

At the risk of angering sickc0d3r, I'm with you on Tombstone, Rimbaud. I've never understood the love for that one. Great cast, sure, but it's never done much for me. That said, I do cosign sickc0d3r's recommendation of Appaloosa. Not only does it star one of the quintessential human versions of gravel, Ed Harris, but Harris also co-wrote it and directed it.

If you're in a Western mood, I'd also recommend The Salvation if you haven't seen it. Mads Mikkelsen brings some European flavor to the Western bad ass avenger archetype

Another one for the list! I do love me some Mads of course, so will definitely be sure to check this out at some point.

 

[Rimbaud82]

Have you seen Appaloosa (Viggo Mortenson and Ed Harris)? If not, please do, and give your thoughts. I think it’s right up your alley. Interested to see if my prediction is accurate (I love the movie).

Great takes on Unforgiven, but I will fight you over Tombstone. Your problem is attitude. Shape up!

* That said, please watch Appaloosa. That is all.

I have not seen it, though I did come across it recently on a list of great modern westerns and was thinking of giving it a whirl. You could be right, it might well be up my alley.

And of course I shall give my thoughts, even if I am hurling them into the void as is often the case

 

[Bullitt68]

Hmmm. Makes me think, there’s a decent possibility that Tombstone is more likely to be appreciated by people who are not a big fan of westerns in general, which I am not. Never even seen The Magnificent Seven.

It could very well be the Western-for-those-who-don't-really-dig-Westerns. Because I don't want to trash it or anything, it's just down there in my book with other 80s/90s stuff - like the Young Guns movies; the other other Yojimbo with Bruce Willis instead of Clint Eastwood, Last Man Standing; The Quick and the Dead, with Gene Hackman following up Unforgiven with another evil bad guy in a Western role; Quigley Down Under, with Cowboy Magnum; and Maverick, with James Garner passing the torch to Mel Gibson - that was part of that late-20th Century Western boom in American cinema but that wasn't really on the same level as Unforgiven or even something like Wyatt Earp (also with Gene Hackman). None of these movies are bad, they're just not standouts to rival Eastwood's 60s-80s shit or Leone's Spaghetti Westerns, to say nothing of the classical Hollywood standouts from the films of John Ford, Howard Hawks, John Sturges, and Budd Boetticher to other classics like The Ox-Bow Incident, High Noon, Shane, 3:10 to Yuma, etc. At least not in my book.

Rambling aside: You should definitely watch The Magnificent Seven. It's not just a remake of, it's an improvement upon Kurosawa's Seven Samurai, and in my book, behind Leone's Once Upon a Time in the West, it's the GOAT Western.

You're in for a world of hurt if you even try to WATCH every movie that Michael Biehn is in, much less love them all. To use his words from The Rock it has been a maze of shit since...well, The Rock.

Planet Terror is the only thing I can think of since the mid 90s that I could call above average.

There are some gems in there, though, which makes traversing the maze of shit worth it. The Seventh Sign and Timebomb are fun sci-fi flicks, Navy Seals is a fun action flick, Breach of Trust and Jade are fun crime thrillers, American Dragons is a Showdown in Little Tokyo-esque blast with obscenely amazing aesthetics which make no sense in a movie of that quality, Cherry Falls and The Art of War are decent...

It's the last decade or so of stuff that I haven't seen. Back when I wrote film criticism for a website, I did review his directorial debut, the throwback horror movie The Victim, and I still have the Blu-ray. It's similar to The House of the Devil, very small and modest but still pretty strong on the storytelling front. Other than that, though, I've yet to explore the newer curves of the maze of shit

I need to see more Huston to be fair.

You just need to see more classical Hollywood cinema period

His adaptation of Joyce's The Dead is on of my absolutely favourites though. Watch it every christmas.

To his credit, he was fairly inconsistent film-to-film, but every 5-10 years from The Maltese Falcon to The Dead, he never failed to come out with a great film. He didn't have the ridiculous consistency of a Hitchcock or a Bergman, but it would only be so long and so many films before he'd come out with a banger.

Shane is another one I have been meaning to get around to for a hell of a long time.

@europe1 can sing its praises with me, it's one of the GOATs.

Oh the humanity! Don't you know me at all Bullitt!

Well actually I did watch that Logan one ages ago when it came out. I vaguely remember thinking it was definitely better than the usual superhero shite, but other than that I can't say I remember much.

Ha, I figured the number would be very low, but I also knew that if you would've seen any superhero movies, Logan would probably be one of them because it's different in a lot of ways and operating on a much higher level than literally every superhero movie not made by Christopher Nolan. But in Logan, not only do they work from a Shane template, and not only is the sequence with Eriq La Salle's family a direct homage, but they literally watch and quote Shane in Logan. It provided Logan with its narrative foundation and its thematic core.

Another one for the list! I do love me some Mads of course, so will definitely be sure to check this out at some point.

It's also got Eva Green for eye candy (though she's quite busted up in the movie) and Jeffrey Dean Morgan chews the fuck out the scenery as the despicable villain

 

[BisexualMMA]

There are some gems in there, though, which makes traversing the maze of shit worth it. The Seventh Sign and Timebomb are fun sci-fi flicks, Navy Seals is a fun action flick, Breach of Trust and Jade are fun crime thrillers, American Dragons is a Showdown in Little Tokyo-esque blast with obscenely amazing aesthetics which make no sense in a movie of that quality, Cherry Falls and The Art of War are decent...

It's the last decade or so of stuff that I haven't seen. Back when I wrote film criticism for a website, I did review his directorial debut, the throwback horror movie The Victim, and I still have the Blu-ray. It's similar to The House of the Devil, very small and modest but still pretty strong on the storytelling front. Other than that, though, I've yet to explore the newer curves of the maze of shit

Bro these are all like pre-1995. Yeah Art of War is okay. Navy Seals is okay. Jade is okay. The Seventh Sign is decent. That's when he was making movies that still played in theaters 25 years ago.

Sure, if you want to go back that far or even further, The Lords of Discipline which nobody has seen is actually very good. Coach was okay. He even had some decent stuff in his straight to video days in the 90s like Deep Red.

Strapped was okay. K2 was okay. The TV movie Asteroid was okay I guess.

But this is all pre-2000. It all went to pot around then and if you can name a good movie since then other than Planet Terror then you are the master of the maze of shit. It's depressing.

Largely because of how some of the performances show little indication of his earlier motivation and ability.

 

[moreorless87]

It could very well be the Western-for-those-who-don't-really-dig-Westerns. Because I don't want to trash it or anything, it's just down there in my book with other 80s/90s stuff - like the Young Guns movies; the other other Yojimbo with Bruce Willis instead of Clint Eastwood, Last Man Standing; The Quick and the Dead, with Gene Hackman following up Unforgiven with another evil bad guy in a Western role; Quigley Down Under, with Cowboy Magnum; and Maverick, with James Garner passing the torch to Mel Gibson - that was part of that late-20th Century Western boom in American cinema but that wasn't really on the same level as Unforgiven or even something like Wyatt Earp (also with Gene Hackman). None of these movies are bad, they're just not standouts to rival Eastwood's 60s-80s shit or Leone's Spaghetti Westerns, to say nothing of the classical Hollywood standouts from the films of John Ford, Howard Hawks, John Sturges, and Budd Boetticher to other classics like The Ox-Bow Incident, High Noon, Shane, 3:10 to Yuma, etc. At least not in my book.

Ironically given Last Man Standing doing the reverse I actually felt a lot of the late 80's/early 90's westerns besides Unforgiven really felt more like action films of the era that just shifted the setting as an alternative to the popular urban and sci fi standards. Most obviously I would say a lot of them didnt really play up the landscape to the degree you'd typically expect with a western.

 

[Bullitt68]

Bro these are all like pre-1995 [...] It all went to pot around then and if you can name a good movie since then other than Planet Terror then you are the master of the maze of shit. It's depressing.

I just went to his IMDb. He was in Clockstoppers in 2002

Seriously, The Divide was okay. Nothing special. That came out the same year as The Victim, which is probably what gave me the incentive to find that one. And then Puncture isn't actually a Michael Biehn movie, but he's in it and that one wasn't half bad.

Looking at the ones I haven't seen, though, Tapped Out is either one of the MMA movies that was so forgettable that I forgot I saw it - though it hurts to think that I might've forgotten watching a Michael Biehn movie - or I've actually never seen it. But MMA + Michael Biehn = It's now on my list. Hidden in the Woods looks amazing simply because it's Michael Biehn and William Forsythe. Have you seen that one? The Girl seems like Biehn's wife's turn at the directing helm for a horror movie a la The Victim. I'd be up for checking that one out. And then The Shadow Effect seems like it could be a fun actioner. Have you seen that one?

I didn't start today thinking that I might have to hit pause on my Criterion Channel Japanese New Wave viewing because I have Biehn on the brain, but here we are BisexualMMA

Ironically given Last Man Standing doing the reverse I actually felt a lot of the late 80's/early 90's westerns besides Unforgiven really felt more like action films of the era that just shifted the setting as an alternative to the popular urban and sci fi standards. Most obviously I would say a lot of them didnt really play up the landscape to the degree you'd typically expect with a western.

Good point. The Western boom sort of allowed for some diversity in the Stallone/Schwarzenegger/Seagal universe of action movies with cops and soldiers shooting, blowing up, and martial artsing the bad guys in contemporary and often urban settings.

 

[BisexualMMA]

I just went to his IMDb. He was in Clockstoppers in 2002

Seriously, The Divide was okay. Nothing special. That came out the same year as The Victim, which is probably what gave me the incentive to find that one. And then Puncture isn't actually a Michael Biehn movie, but he's in it and that one wasn't half bad.

Looking at the ones I haven't seen, though, Tapped Out is either one of the MMA movies that was so forgettable that I forgot I saw it - though it hurts to think that I might've forgotten watching a Michael Biehn movie - or I've actually never seen it. But MMA + Michael Biehn = It's now on my list. Hidden in the Woods looks amazing simply because it's Michael Biehn and William Forsythe. Have you seen that one? The Girl seems like Biehn's wife's turn at the directing helm for a horror movie a la The Victim. I'd be up for checking that one out. And then The Shadow Effect seems like it could be a fun actioner. Have you seen that one?

I didn't start today thinking that I might have to hit pause on my Criterion Channel Japanese New Wave viewing because I have Biehn on the brain, but here we are BisexualMMA

I was going to mention Puncture and then didn't as a kindness. If you've watched the movie, then surely you can tell something went wrong on his filming days because he is built up as a pivotal character with information that the whole plot hinges upon. Then when the protagonist meets him, they cut to a montage of Biehn revealing his information with no audio. There is no scene. You don't even hear his lines. It must have gone terribly on camera.

I couldn't finish Hidden in the Woods. I watched Tapped Out. It was a fucking embarrassment. For the writer / star more than anybody I suppose but there's nobody that should have walked away feeling proud of that thing. The worst movie of its kind that I have ever seen I think.

He makes a lot of movies with his wife now, kind of like Rob Zombie. And I'm glad they seem to have a great relationship and enjoy working together but it has also turned into kind of a sausage factory for cheap crap movies that should be beneath him. But I don't think better stuff is offering itself to him. He got a bit of a shot with The Mandalorian and...it wasn't a performance up to his capabilities.

He also had a role in The Walking Dead and it was a little better but...at the same time it seems like he has regressed. A lot of yelling where he was able to get across much more menace with hardly ever raising his voice in Tombstone or The Abyss. At his age, he should be even better at that...

 

[BisexualMMA]

It could very well be the Western-for-those-who-don't-really-dig-Westerns. Because I don't want to trash it or anything, it's just down there in my book with other 80s/90s stuff - like the Young Guns movies; the other other Yojimbo with Bruce Willis instead of Clint Eastwood, Last Man Standing; The Quick and the Dead, with Gene Hackman following up Unforgiven with another evil bad guy in a Western role; Quigley Down Under, with Cowboy Magnum; and Maverick, with James Garner passing the torch to Mel Gibson - that was part of that late-20th Century Western boom in American cinema but that wasn't really on the same level as Unforgiven or even something like Wyatt Earp (also with Gene Hackman). None of these movies are bad, they're just not standouts to rival Eastwood's 60s-80s shit or Leone's Spaghetti Westerns, to say nothing of the classical Hollywood standouts from the films of John Ford, Howard Hawks, John Sturges, and Budd Boetticher to other classics like The Ox-Bow Incident, High Noon, Shane, 3:10 to Yuma, etc. At least not in my book.

I think Tombstone but especially the Young Guns films stand above the other 80s/90s pop westerns that you listed.

I think Emilio Estevez was Oscar nomination good as Billy the Kid. He was made for that role the way Judd Nelson was made for The Breakfast Club, and I don't think either came close to that level in any other role. I think Alan Silvestri should have been nominated at a minimum for the score of Young Guns 2.

Like you I am a fan of more classic westerns but those three in particular I put in similar esteem.

Along with a few that get completely overlooked these days. I have McCabe & Mrs. Miller in the running for the #1 spot.

You also said the films don't rival Eastwood's 60s to 80s work. The only 80s western I can think of offhand was Pale Rider and I wasn't that blown away. It seemed kind of like a test run to work out the kinks for some aspects of Unforgiven.

 

[Bullitt68]

I'm loving this Japanese New Wave stuff that I've been watching. @europe1, @Rimbaud82, @moreorless87, you guys ever venture into the nūberu bāgu? Whenever I teach Japanese cinema in any film history classes, I usually stay pretty much to the 1930s-1960s, and I usually screen a Kon Ichikawa film (typically, I screen The Burmese Harp, Fires on the Plain, or An Actor's Revenge). After the unit on Japanese cinema, then I go into the French New Wave and showcase its influence with looks at the British New Wave (I either screen Alfie or If....) and what I call the American New Wave (I always show Midnight Cowboy, especially since it was directed by one of the British New Wave directors who went to Hollywood). But the Japanese New Wave is interesting because it wasn't so much influenced by the French New Wave as it sprang up at the same time as the French New Wave. At the same time, from around the mid-1950s to the late 1960s, not only were filmmakers from the "West" and the "East" both experimenting with narrative and aesthetic form, they were also starting to more explicitly politicize their work. It's fascinating stuff.

I started with Seijun Suzuki, but I'm not a big fan of his. Tokyo Drifter is fascinating and Branded to Kill is obviously his calling card, but neither one of them really wowed me. For Japanese crime shit, I much preferred Masahiro Shinoda's Pale Flower, which is the best Japanese film noir that I've seen (yes, I'm looking at you, Stray Dog - Kurosawa ain't got shit on Shinoda). And speaking of Shinoda, europe, I know that you and I are big fans of The Sword of Doom. Well, if you haven't seen Shinoda's Assassination or Samurai Spy, get on that shit ASAP. Samurai Spy especially I think that you'd dig, because it has both Leone vibes and Chang Cheh vibes.

Now if we're talking about the best New Wave filmmaker, I've got to give it up to Shōhei Imamura. Stolen Desire and Endless Desire are both great, Pigs and Battleships and The Pornographers are even better, and The Insect Woman is his crowning achievement and possibly the GOAT New Wave film. The close second is Nagisa Ōshima. He struck me as the most Godardian, particularly in his debut film, Street of Love and Hope, and most notably Night and Fog in Japan, which not only has the Alain Resnais tip of the hat in the title but which has a narrative that made me immediately think of Godard's later film The Chinese. The reason that Ōshima is famous, though, is for his sexually-charged shit, from Cruel Story of Youth (which I enjoyed but didn't think was anything special) and Violence at Noon (fascinating film with a really cool aesthetic) to Sing a Song of Sex (hilarious film with decent satire, too) and Diary of a Shinjuku Thief (more interesting than enjoyable but still solid) all the way up to his most controversial films, In the Realm of the Senses and Empire of Passion. In the Realm of the Senses is one of the wildest movies you'll ever see, and no surprise it was a French co-production, as only the films of Catherine Breillat go harder in the paint than In the Realm of the Senses.

I still need to (re)watch a handful of other films on Criterion Channel from Koreyoshi Kurahara and Hiroshi Teshigahara, but I'm enjoying this little foreign film run that I'm on. And this comes on the heels of a run where I caught up on all of my MCU and DCEU films. Very productive moviewatching summer so far

I couldn't finish Hidden in the Woods. I watched Tapped Out. It was a fucking embarrassment. For the writer / star more than anybody I suppose but there's nobody that should have walked away feeling proud of that thing. The worst movie of its kind that I have ever seen I think.

Damn, that's too bad. I'll still get around to them eventually, but I'm in no rush.

He makes a lot of movies with his wife now, kind of like Rob Zombie. And I'm glad they seem to have a great relationship and enjoy working together but it has also turned into kind of a sausage factory for cheap crap movies that should be beneath him.

I'm with you here. If they're having a good time and feel artistically fulfilled, good on 'em.

But I don't think better stuff is offering itself to him. He got a bit of a shot with The Mandalorian and...it wasn't a performance up to his capabilities.

He also had a role in The Walking Dead and it was a little better but...at the same time it seems like he has regressed. A lot of yelling where he was able to get across much more menace with hardly ever raising his voice in Tombstone or The Abyss. At his age, he should be even better at that...

Dude, I'm one of those who thinks he not only should've been nominated for Best Supporting Actor for The Abyss, he should've fucking won the Oscar for that performance. Imagine what his career could've been if he'd entered the '90s as Oscar winner Michael Biehn

I think Tombstone but especially the Young Guns films stand above the other 80s/90s pop westerns that you listed.

I think Emilio Estevez was Oscar nomination good as Billy the Kid. He was made for that role the way Judd Nelson was made for The Breakfast Club, and I don't think either came close to that level in any other role. I think Alan Silvestri should have been nominated at a minimum for the score of Young Guns 2.

Like you I am a fan of more classic westerns but those three in particular I put in similar esteem.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply any hate toward the films that I listed. I wouldn't go as far as you and say that I hold any of those movies in similar esteem as the classics, but like you, I'll always have a soft spot for the Young Guns films, and on the whole, I enjoy to varying degrees all of those '90s Westerns.

Along with a few that get completely overlooked these days. I have McCabe & Mrs. Miller in the running for the #1 spot.

I never learned to like Robert Altman. A lot of hardcore cinephiles love him, especially that '70s run of his from MASH through Nashiville, but it just never clicked with me and I've yet to try them again.

You also said the films don't rival Eastwood's 60s to 80s work. The only 80s western I can think of offhand was Pale Rider and I wasn't that blown away. It seemed kind of like a test run to work out the kinks for some aspects of Unforgiven.

I just meant that Eastwood's prime begins in the '60s and ends in the '80s. That's not to say that Pale Rider is necessarily/automatically superior to all post-'80s Westerns, just that it bookends Eastwood's Cowboy heyday.

 

[moreorless87]

Was watching Imamura's The Ballad of Narayama again a couple of weeks ago, small scale drama of life in a cut off Japanese village where people are expected to go "up the mountain" to die aged 70.

Actually reminds me alot of the film in my avi, Marketa Lazarova in how well it manages to sell an alien culture, not just transplanting a modern mindset to a different era but showing a fundamentally different mindset, The small scale often purile earthiness of the village and the harsh pragmatism of many decisions taken very different from the kind of grand morality/spirituality we live with but I think its nature feels genuine, almost like watching a nature documentary at points but sells the sense of fulfilment from it.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Dude, I'm one of those who thinks he not only should've been nominated for Best Supporting Actor for The Abyss, he should've fucking won the Oscar for that performance. Imagine what his career could've been if he'd entered the '90s as Oscar winner Michael Biehn

I would have had no problem with that. All of the The Terminator, Tombstone and The Abyss were very high level performances.

But he has always been inconsistent. He'll deliver Oscar caliber stuff in the movies above and then he'll do some first week of acting class stuff in other projects within a few years.

I don't know what would have happened with that hypothetical Oscar. The truth is I don't know what really happens if he commits hard to drama without action attached to it. He did a movie right at the absolute peak of his run called In a Shallow Grave about a burn victim trying to kindle a romance and it was practically buried. Kind of his version of The Man Without a Face. Maybe it was too early in his career, maybe the direction didn't do him any favors, maybe the adaptation from the novel didn't either but it was kind of a momentum killer.

Mojave Moon is another small movie from the mid 90s that was decent before it all started to tank.

 

[Bullitt68]

Was watching Imamura's The Ballad of Narayama again a couple of weeks ago, small scale drama of life in a cut off Japanese village where people are expected to go "up the mountain" to die aged 70.

Actually reminds me alot of the film in my avi, Marketa Lazarova in how well it manages to sell an alien culture, not just transplanting a modern mindset to a different era but showing a fundamentally different mindset, The small scale often purile earthiness of the village and the harsh pragmatism of many decisions taken very different from the kind of grand morality/spirituality we live with but I think its nature feels genuine, almost like watching a nature documentary at points but sells the sense of fulfilment from it.

Agree with everything except that I haven't seen Marketa Lazarova. Honestly, I don't know that I've ever seen a Czech film. I've seen most of the "big" stuff from the "big" film countries like France, Germany, Italy, etc., but Czech films, Romanian films, Danish films, etc., are still big gaps for me.

 

[Yotsuya]

Very much looking forward for the new Arrow release of Tomu Uchida's A Fugitive from the Past. Loved Bloody Spear at Mount Fuji and the last act of The Mad Fox is absolutely wonderful.

 

[Bullitt68]

Very much looking forward for the new Arrow release of Tomu Uchida's A Fugitive from the Past. Loved Bloody Spear at Mount Fuji and the last act of The Mad Fox is absolutely wonderful.

Never seen any of Uchida's stuff, but A Fugitive From the Past sounds great. It made me think of Imamura's Endless Desire. I also just watched Kurahara's short film noir Intimidation and it seems similar to that one, as well. I'm liking these 1950s and 1960s Japanese crime films. They have the B&W look and feel of noir, before the Suzuki-style color-filled, over-the-top crime extravaganzas.

 

[Yotsuya]

Never seen any of Uchida's stuff, but A Fugitive From the Past sounds great. It made me think of Imamura's Endless Desire. I also just watched Kurahara's short film noir Intimidation and it seems similar to that one, as well. I'm liking these 1950s and 1960s Japanese crime films. They have the B&W look and feel of noir, before the Suzuki-style color-filled, over-the-top crime extravaganzas.

Yeah, I'm pretty damn bored with Japanese modern quirkiness.

Have you seen Gates of Hell? it's like Edo period Douglas Sirk movie.

 

[Bullitt68]

Have you seen Gates of Hell? it's like Edo period Douglas Sirk movie.

A long time ago. Samurai movies were my entry into Japanese films, and in my first couple of passes through Japanese film history, it was all about Samurai movies. But in the last 10-ish years, I haven't rewatched much. It's been ages since I've seen The Sword of Doom, Inagaki's Samurai trilogy, the Zatoichi films, and it was only recently that I even rewatched a lot of the Kurosawa classics for the first time in forever. When I shift from new watches to rewatches, though, I'll remember to check that one out again to update the hard drive, as I've started to say

 

[moreorless87]

Agree with everything except that I haven't seen Marketa Lazarova. Honestly, I don't know that I've ever seen a Czech film. I've seen most of the "big" stuff from the "big" film countries like France, Germany, Italy, etc., but Czech films, Romanian films, Danish films, etc., are still big gaps for me.

Image an anti Andrei Rublev, same black and white medieval epic but focused more of paganism, rather than graceful flowing shots everything strange and obscured playing up a paganist viewpoint, also has a scene were the narrating voice of god gets into an argument with a character and accusing him of sleeping with his pet goat.

Actually up on Youtube in full, probably not safe for work though.


For other Czechoslovakian film I think you might like Ikarie XB1, kind of a missing link between pulpy 50's sci fi like Forbidden Planet and 2001

 

[Rimbaud82]

Image an anti Andrei Rublev, same black and white medieval epic but focused more of paganism, rather than graceful flowing shots everything strange and obscured playing up a paganist viewpoint, also has a scene were the narrating voice of god gets into an argument with a character and accusing him of sleeping with his pet goat.

For other Czechoslovakian film I think you might like Ikarie XB1, kind of a missing link between pulpy 50's sci fi like Forbidden Planet and 2001

Yeah Ikarie XB1 is an interesting one, not amazing by any means but as you say a kind of evolutionary link between the two kinds of sci-fi.

Marketa Lazarova is of course amazing. I have been meaning to get round The Devils Trap and Valley of the Bees too, but haven't yet. Thoughts on them if you have seen them?