Your experience with teh juice

JimRussel said:
Definitely the norm.
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It’s possible though. You just have to be in shape and never stop. Life expectancy is down because everyone is fat and overdosing, you can very likely expect to see 80-90 if you just don’t smoke or do those two things. Also, ucla did a very long study a while back and found very small risk for trt level dosing. So I’m on that train following a second test level this coming month. Mine was one point low but also I was dieting pretty hard so maybe that had an effect. Does make me wonder if there’s some 3or400 level you could safely do though.
 
mr.sandman said:
All the gains you get from it are temporary. You are big on cycle, after cycle you loose half and then the other half slowly melts away with a year. Also with the cycling comes doing regular bloodwork, donating blood every couple months if your markers get to a point, some guys take 3 different medications for blood pressure, estrogen control pills, pills to make your dick work etc

And its very bad for your health. Steroids make blood thick so you have bigger chance of heart attack, stroke, blood clots etc among many other problems like high blood pressure

Guys who havent tried steroids have a dream that you do a cycle, your muscles grow bigger and you stay like that for the rest of your life. Buts in reality its a huge hassle and commitment.

In your body, all your muscles get broken down and rebuilt all the time. If you dont have the steroids in your system to keep them huge anymore the gains will dissapear.

And by doing cycles you damage your natural test levels. If you had natural test levels of 900, after couple cyclrs you might only get back to 800 (at best). Worst case your natural test will be 200
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So how does Joe Rogan and pro athletes do it ? Is Brock Lesnar 365 on juice ?
 
1rawdog said:
A bit of a rude start to your post don't you think? What's with the hostility? What did I ever do to you?

Which part of - Every negative you listed can be avoided for most men with a conscientious program . - did you not understand?

Just because a bunch of people use them in an uneducated and irresponsible manner doesn't mean everyone does. And you listed potential negatives but none of the potential positives, maybe some balanced perspective on the subject is in order? Every damn thing I can think of has some of both, nothing is all bad or all good.
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How to use juice and not be damaged ? Any links
 
vision1 said:
Not really.
People get sick. People get injured.
225x10 isn't any indication of juicing. In fact, I'd say it's better indication that they're natural. Those are my kind of numbers and I'm an awful bencher with long arms and barely remember to take my creatine.
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When I was in shape I could do a bunch of 225 sets. If I stopped training for 6 months then coming back 80 kg would be hard. So that sounds natural.
 
Trabaho said:
How to use juice and not be damaged ? Any links
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Excellent question. Best answer - Don't do it = No Damage.

Being sherdog I await the almost inevitable smartass replies to this post but I have big shoulders and trolls and clowns will do what they do I suppose.

There are no guarantees. Accept that no one will care for your health as much as you do, or should.
Realize this is an extremely complex subject that is well beyond the scope of a board like this. The variables to be considered to any approach are endless. The amount of things that people may refer to as juice is huge in itself. I'll assume we are talking about ingesting anything other than whole foods.

The journey to understanding it is also endless. Even after decades of involvement you should expect to still be learning something new fairly often.

The first step would be education. I'd guess it would take a person of better than average intelligence a few years to know enough to approach the highest degree of harm mitigation and even then shit can go sideways. If you aren't up for that and have the means then hire an expert or two.

Where to start depends on what knowledge you currently posses but a good place for most would be to learn how to really read and understand a study.
Any article you read is just someone else's interpretation of the facts which is subject to bias, misinterpretation and sadly these days also the pursuit of clicks. This even applies to the written conclusions within the study which can be politically or financially motivated. Get to the data and consider it's validity. All this should be apparent to any adult who has been awake for the past three years.

I suppose the first real step should be a compete physical check up with comprehensive blood work. Do that first as you may have some issue the precludes you from ever using some products. In that case it might be a waste of time to spend years getting educated.

Despite the lucky few who just wing it and get away with it using this shit is not a joke. There is plenty of potential for permanent harm.

Sorry but it's hard to be specific without a specific question, the subject is simply too deep.
 
1rawdog said:
Excellent question. Best answer - Don't do it = No Damage.

Being sherdog I await the almost inevitable smartass replies to this post but I have big shoulders and trolls and clowns will do what they do I suppose.

There are no guarantees. Accept that no one will care for your health as much as you do, or should.
Realize this is an extremely complex subject that is well beyond the scope of a board like this. The variables to be considered to any approach are endless. The amount of things that people may refer to as juice is huge in itself. I'll assume we are talking about ingesting anything other than whole foods.

The journey to understanding it is also endless. Even after decades of involvement you should expect to still be learning something new fairly often.

The first step would be education. I'd guess it would take a person of better than average intelligence a few years to know enough to approach the highest degree of harm mitigation and even then shit can go sideways. If you aren't up for that and have the means then hire an expert or two.

Where to start depends on what knowledge you currently posses but a good place for most would be to learn how to really read and understand a study.
Any article you read is just someone else's interpretation of the facts which is subject to bias, misinterpretation and sadly these days also the pursuit of clicks. This even applies to the written conclusions within the study which can be politically or financially motivated. Get to the data and consider it's validity. All this should be apparent to any adult who has been awake for the past three years.

I suppose the first real step should be a compete physical check up with comprehensive blood work. Do that first as you may have some issue the precludes you from ever using some products. In that case it might be a waste of time to spend years getting educated.

Despite the lucky few who just wing it and get away with it using this shit is not a joke. There is plenty of potential for permanent harm.

Sorry but it's hard to be specific without a specific question, the subject is simply too deep.
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So do it like Joe Rogan and Jon Jones and insert needle with juicy into my buttocks ? Sounds like we got a deal
 
Poon Goon said:
Butthole, not buttocks
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There is a semi-famous thread about this on an old bodybuilding forum that was teared up laugh inducing. Newbie was unsure if he could continue with his first cycle, his posts were something along the line of I'm 3 weeks in and I don't know how you guys can do it, it hurts so bad...
 
Trabaho said:
So how does Joe Rogan and pro athletes do it ? Is Brock Lesnar 365 on juice ?
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Im not an expert but i think the pro athletes who juice use it near enough to the competition so the effects last even if they are off it while competing. Joe rogan is on trt and growth hormone probably. About Lesnar i have no clue.

If you are on trt you will keep more of the gains and have less hornone fluctuation.On trt you will blast higher amount of test and other shit for some weeks and then go back to trt dose If not on trt then after cycle your natural test will go to 0 for some time before recovering and that will make you loose more gains and feel like shit. But hopping on trt as a young healthy man just so you can do couple cycles, think twice before you do it because trt is for life... if after couple years you are sick of it and dont want to do it anymore your natural testosterone will not recover to where it was before, maybe wont recover at all.

If you want to do it as safe as possible, take time to read up on it. There is loads of info online( videos and articles), forums where you can ask advice and input from other more exp. users.

You will need to do bloodwork before, mid and after cycle. Before and after to see if your markers recover and during to see how your body reacts to it. Everyone reacts different. If something is off, there are always ways to combat it.
Keep an eye on bloodpressure, good if you have BP cuff at home. I had insane high BP even on low dose, one of main reasons why i quit. But you can get BP medicine from your doctor . High BP is a silent killer

Before you start cycle you need to have anti estrogen pills on hand also. If estrogen gets out of hand your nipples will get sore and there will start growing female tits. If you have the estrogen pills thry will make it go away. If no pills, then get a bra. Some guys get high estrogen with low dose, some dont get high estrogen even on super high dose so you never know but good to have it at hand.

And if your blood gets too thick you need to donate blood. You see those markers from the bloodwork also

These are the main things i think. Read up on the compounds you use, how to do cycle, how to do bloodwork, pct, etc

And think twice if its worth it before you start
 
Seems like people are conflating TRT and juicing and they are quite different. Steroids and testosterone do have legitimate medical uses and TRT is one of them. People are literally 'replacing' their lack of natural test with that of the injected. Typically when people do TRT it is to get them into the 'healthy/natural' range for a male. As opposed to 'juicing' where you exceed the upper limits of natural test.

We also need to clarify what it even means to 'juice'. Is raising test by any means juicing? Are we talking test, AAS, SARMs, HGH, other GH secretogogues, peptides, etc. Does intention / reason matter?

There are people who raised their natural test from very low levels to the upper limits with just healthier lifestyle and regular supplements. I know of one guy (Nils) in one health group on fb who in his late 60s/70 did just that.

Clearly you can mitigate many of the risks from anabolic steroid use. With careful monitoring/bloodwork, organ support, maybe taking supplements/meds to reduce hair shedding, etc. Can you eliminate every risk? No. Clearly not. That's why it's a balancing test for most people. Most rational people realize there's little incentive to use them and they don't. If there's some significant financial upside or health issue then that changes the equation.

It should also be noted that many of the risks associated with bodybuilding are not steroids per se but also all the other exotic substances and drugs they use like diuretics which can mess up the kidneys and heart.

I have no judgement for anyone who makes that choice for themselves. My only issue is if people juice and then compete against natural athletes. But that's more to do with fair play issue rather than steroid use.
 
DEVILsSON said:
Seems like people are conflating TRT and juicing and they are quite different. Steroids and testosterone do have legitimate medical uses and TRT is one of them. People are literally 'replacing' their lack of natural test with that of the injected. Typically when people do TRT it is to get them into the 'healthy/natural' range for a male. As opposed to 'juicing' where you exceed the upper limits of natural test.

We also need to clarify what it even means to 'juice'. Is raising test by any means juicing? Are we talking test, AAS, SARMs, HGH, other GH secretogogues, peptides, etc. Does intention / reason matter?

There are people who raised their natural test from very low levels to the upper limits with just healthier lifestyle and regular supplements. I know of one guy (Nils) in one health group on fb who in his late 60s/70 did just that.

Clearly you can mitigate many of the risks from anabolic steroid use. With careful monitoring/bloodwork, organ support, maybe taking supplements/meds to reduce hair shedding, etc. Can you eliminate every risk? No. Clearly not. That's why it's a balancing test for most people. Most rational people realize there's little incentive to use them and they don't. If there's some significant financial upside or health issue then that changes the equation.

It should also be noted that many of the risks associated with bodybuilding are not steroids per se but also all the other exotic substances and drugs they use like diuretics which can mess up the kidneys and heart.

I have no judgement for anyone who makes that choice for themselves. My only issue is if people juice and then compete against natural athletes. But that's more to do with fair play issue rather than steroid use.
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Yeah like i sayd in my original post. You can take pills for high BP, you can donate blood when hemoglobin starts to get high, do blood work etc and this will mitigate the risks greatly but you still have higher BP, thicker blood and organs under stress

As for juicing, imo all the un-natty supplements count as juicing. And in my opinion, trt is juicing also. If you are on trt and im not you will have unfair advantage. Its not banned in ufc for nothing. Its just a smaller, more acceptable form of mini juicing
 
mr.sandman said:
Yeah like i sayd in my original post. You can take pills for high BP, you can donate blood when hemoglobin starts to get high, do blood work etc and this will mitigate the risks greatly but you still have higher BP, thicker blood and organs under stress

As for juicing, imo all the un-natty supplements count as juicing. And in my opinion, trt is juicing also. If you are on trt and im not you will have unfair advantage. Its not banned in ufc for nothing. Its just a smaller, more acceptable form of mini juicing
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What exactly does 'un-natty' even mean?

I know herbal supplements that can raise natural test to the upper limits...I doubt any org will consider that as 'juicing'...
 
DEVILsSON said:
What exactly does 'un-natty' even mean?

I know herbal supplements that can raise natural test to the upper limits...I doubt any org will consider that as 'juicing'...
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I think it means all the sarms, steroids, growth hormone etc. All the "good stuff". Natural supplements are vitamins,minerals, herbs etc
 
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