Why don't bodybuilders just do full body routines?

[mr.sandman]

 

[gspieler]

https://youtube.com/shorts/Ez3tpc9Ujs4?feature=share

Do you disagree with Mike Mentzer's assertion that one set is ideal?

Respect to Mentzer/Yates/etc. And I’m no expert, but it seems “one set” is just another way of saying “ramp sets going to failure on the last set”. That is, you’re getting plenty of volume in the routine. They just frame it in a way to suggest that the last set is the only one that matters.

Edit: and just as an example, linked below is Dorian's routine. On chest day, for example, he does 6 different chest exercises, for 3x10-12 on each exercise. That's roughly 200 reps for chest in a single workout, in a routine that is based on the philosophy that volume is meaningless.

https://jackedgorilla.com/dorian-yates-workout-routine/

 

[don't ask]

Here's my contribution to old timey swole motherfuckers:

The toughest people wear flowers on their dicks.

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

Isn't Full-Body very slow-twitch and more endurance? You guys talk about farm boy strength, but I've done farm work and other manual labor and I felt that it gave me a lot of functional endurance but not much size and strength. The same thing happens when I do volume training. Powerlifting and HIT have been the only things that have worked for me.

I'm naturally pretty fast twitch.

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

Respect to Mentzer/Yates/etc. And I’m no expert, but it seems “one set” is just another way of saying “ramp sets going to failure on the last set”. That is, you’re getting plenty of volume in the routine. They just frame it in a way to suggest that the last set is the only one that matters.

Edit: and just as an example, linked below is Dorian's routine. On chest day, for example, he does 6 different chest exercises, for 3x10-12 on each exercise. That's roughly 200 reps for chest in a single workout, in a routine that is based on the philosophy that volume is meaningless.

https://jackedgorilla.com/dorian-yates-workout-routine/

Yates did a shit load of gear. Mentzer said that you can't train high volume unless you are on gear. Yates added exercises that would target different parts of the muscle.

My theory and it's something I'm working on is that Arnold said 5 sets to stimulate all of the muscle fibers....I think that he means the slow twitch fibers and not just the fast twitch. The main difference between a volume bodybuilder and a powerlifter is that the volume bodybuilder has more slow twich fibers and sarcoplasm. Tom Platz's legs where way bigger than Fred Hatfield's, but he could squat more for singles and doubles. Tom Platz, however, could take a fairly heavy weight and do more reps than Hatfield. I think Yates was trying to work more slow twitch fibers, but then again they are just warm up sets.

HIT really comes from very old strong man training that was before Arthur Jones. It is closer to strength training than hypertrophy.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Here's my contribution to old timey swole motherfuckers:

The toughest people wear flowers on their dicks.

I've noticed that old timey strongmen/bodybuilders all had thick ass horse necks. I've never seen an image of a pre-1940's (when steroids first became available) strongman with built arms and legs and a pencil neck, like you commonly see in today's roided fitness influencers and the like.

I wonder if this is because 1) full body strongman style training also works the neck and traps, leading to hypertrophy over time or 2) old timey dudes with natty jacked genetics had natty thick necks vs. new school roided guys pushing their arms and legs way beyond their genetic limits via BB-style training, but neck size is limited like calf muscle development having a large genetic component.

 

[cincymma79]

Respect to Mentzer/Yates/etc. And I’m no expert, but it seems “one set” is just another way of saying “ramp sets going to failure on the last set”. That is, you’re getting plenty of volume in the routine. They just frame it in a way to suggest that the last set is the only one that matters.

Edit: and just as an example, linked below is Dorian's routine. On chest day, for example, he does 6 different chest exercises, for 3x10-12 on each exercise. That's roughly 200 reps for chest in a single workout, in a routine that is based on the philosophy that volume is meaningless.

https://jackedgorilla.com/dorian-yates-workout-routine/

I was going to clarify but couldn’t think of a short way. This is essentially it. Adding one piece. Genetics. Mike said he bases how frequently they lift on how they respond. Some can handle very little, others a lot, on juice a ton. So 1-2 days a week for the very little crowd, 2-4 for the gifted, and 3-4 for juicers (at bodybuilding). I honestly need to grab his book and go all out on reading up. It fits my observations over the years. I throw people on four day splits or three depending on how much time they have. Four day splits are 45 minutes, three day are just over an hour. I also like slow controlled reps, especially for arms. Three exercises for big muscles and two for little ones. That’s a formula people can stick to

 

[Volador]

I've noticed that old timey strongmen/bodybuilders all have thick ass horse necks. I've never seen an image of a pre-1940's (when steroids first became available) strongman with built arms and legs and a pencil neck, like you commonly see in today's roided fitness influencers and the like.

I wonder if this is because 1) full body strongman style training also works the neck and traps, leading to hypertrophy over time or 2) old timey dudes with natty jacked genetics had natty thick necks vs. new school roided guys pushing their arms and legs way beyond their genetic limits via BB-style training, but neck size is limited like calf muscle development having a large genetic component.

Yeah I’m guessing their training style was closer to strongman/gymnast/olympic weightlifter with lots of heavy full body movements and overhead pressing than it was to modern bodybuilding. I know at least Sandow started as a strongman. They all have very blocky torsos with really developed abs and obliques, waists that would probably be considered too wide for a bodybuilder now. Their physiques seem closer to this (weightlifter Pyrros Dimas) than to a bodybuilder:

Precursors to modern bodybuilding were guys like Steve Reeves, Reg Park or Vince Gironda. Their physiques were natty probably but a lot less blocky, wider lats, shredded abs, small waist; a more “modern” aesthetic. And they didn’t have massive necks:

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Bodybuilders can use full body routines(2,3,4,5, even 6 day a week routines) with careful exercise selection and proper intensities.

 

[don't ask]

I've noticed that old timey strongmen/bodybuilders all have thick ass horse necks. I've never seen an image of a pre-1940's (when steroids first became available) strongman with built arms and legs and a pencil neck, like you commonly see in today's roided fitness influencers and the like.

I wonder if this is because 1) full body strongman style training also works the neck and traps, leading to hypertrophy over time or 2) old timey dudes with natty jacked genetics had natty thick necks vs. new school roided guys pushing their arms and legs way beyond their genetic limits via BB-style training, but neck size is limited like calf muscle development having a large genetic component.

It's funny you wrote this today, because I was just looking at this page earlier:

https://www.oldtimestrongman.com/blog/tag/neck-exercise/

Old timey strongmen worked their necks like fucking maniacs!

some of the shit they do is the only way to survive this:

 

[don't ask]

Isn't Full-Body very slow-twitch and more endurance? You guys talk about farm boy strength, but I've done farm work and other manual labor and I felt that it gave me a lot of functional endurance but not much size and strength. The same thing happens when I do volume training. Powerlifting and HIT have been the only things that have worked for me.

I'm naturally pretty fast twitch.

AFAIK any time you train heavy, fast, or to failure, you hit the fast twitch fibres. Full-body routine aren't usually slow-twitch dominant.

 

[don't ask]

HIT really comes from very old strong man training that was before Arthur Jones. It is closer to strength training than hypertrophy.

The really old timey strongmen never trained to failure.

 

[don't ask]

Yeah I’m guessing their training style was closer to strongman/gymnast/olympic weightlifter with lots of heavy full body movements and overhead pressing than it was to modern bodybuilding. I know at least Sandow started as a strongman. They all have very blocky torsos with really developed abs and obliques, waists that would probably be considered too wide for a bodybuilder now. Their physiques seem closer to this (weightlifter Pyrros Dimas) than to a bodybuilder:

Precursors to modern bodybuilding were guys like Steve Reeves, Reg Park or Vince Gironda. Their physiques were natty probably but a lot less blocky, wider lats, shredded abs, small waist; a more “modern” aesthetic. And they didn’t have massive necks:

something I've read is that the differences in physiques between modern bodybuilders and old timey strongmen is mainly the thin waists of modern guys (not counting HGH gut) and the huge pecs. Those old guys didn't do a lot of benching and either deadlifted everything or put it overhead.

 

[ChickenBrother]

It's funny you wrote this today, because I was just looking at this page earlier:

https://www.oldtimestrongman.com/blog/tag/neck-exercise/

Old timey strongmen worked their necks like fucking maniacs!

some of the shit they do is the only way to survive this:

I get the sense old timey strongmen did a fair amount of wrestling and combat sports coming up - that's kind of what you did if you were a toughguy back in the day. And a strong neck is part and parcel with effectiveness in combat sports - it's literally your fifth limb and without a strong one, you're much easier to KO or takedown/pin/control on the mat. I'm still not sure if it's possible without hidden support, but Farmer Burns surviving a 6 foot drop and then being hanged with a noose for 3 minutes seems fucking insane, even with his supposedly 21" neck at 170 lbs. And he apparently did this act regularly at county fairs and circuses.

 

[don't ask]

I get the sense old timey strongmen did a fair amount of wrestling and combat sports coming up - that's kind of what you did if you were a toughguy back in the day. And a strong neck is part and parcel with effectiveness in combat sports - it's literally your fifth limb and without a strong one, you're much easier to KO or takedown/pin/control on the mat. I'm still not sure if it's possible without hidden support, but Farmer Burns surviving a 6 foot drop and then being hanged with a noose for 3 minutes seems fucking insane, even with his supposedly 21" neck at 170 lbs. And he apparently did this act regularly at county fairs and circuses.

Jesus Christ! I had no idea there was a picture of his stunt. That's fucking insane.

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

AFAIK any time you train heavy, fast, or to failure, you hit the fast twitch fibres. Full-body routine aren't usually slow-twitch dominant.

That is true

W/ a full body routine, someone would have to pace themselves. One set to failure is an all out sprint

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

The really old timey strongmen never trained to failure.

Not all. It was a technique used by some.

 

[don't ask]

That is true

W/ a full body routine, someone would have to pace themselves. One set to failure is an all out sprint

Can you tell me what you mean here? I'm not sure I'm following. And I just realized that traditional HIT routines are full-body routines, so now I really don't understand what you're saying.

 

[mr.sandman]

Can you tell me what you mean here? I'm not sure I'm following. And I just realized that traditional HIT routines are full-body routines, so now I really don't understand what you're saying.

I do full body and i always go until failure or very close

 

[don't ask]

I do full body and i always go until failure or very close

I do full-body, too, but the other post has said two things that confuse me:

-full body trains endurance and slow twitch (definitely not true)

-he trains HIT, not full-body (but every HIT routine I've ever seen has been full body)

So I'm hoping he explains. I'm wondering if there's a misunderstanding about what a full-body routine is.