Crime Charges Re-Filed against Alec Baldwin in 'Rust' Shooting. (Update: Armorer's Trial Started)

[chardog]

You also stated one of the tasks is to train the actors. If true, they obviously failed in that regard. If it's true they instructed Alec to check the weapon, then why did they not ensure that happened?
That weapon was on set to literally be pointed and fired at the other actors... 100% the responsibility of the expert to make sure everything happens by protocol!

he simply didnt feel like it, it's in the interview <Lmaoo>

the weapon was NOT to be pointed at other actors, you can see the filming recreation, there were no actors in front of him. They film one angle at a time.

it's pretty cut and dry, dude should get charged with manslaughter

 

[chardog]

I get what you're saying but I really think you're minimizing the armorer's responsibility here. From the sounds of it, there isn't a whole lot that the armorer needs to do. If anything, the movie production company should hire 2 armorers that can double check each other. Asking an actor to double check an armorers work is just asking for trouble. Actors are not gun experts and knowing whether a gun is loaded or not is not common sense. Especially with a semi auto pistol. An actor doesn't have to double check their rigging or the platform they're standing on or the explosives they're about to set off. There are trained personnel hired by the production company to specifically do those jobs. It's the job of the professionals to ensure the work space is safe for the actors to act in.

I would place 5% of the blame on Alec and 95% on the armorer.

Haven't read much on it in months but I remember the armorer girl not looking like what you would think an armorer would look like. That doesn't mean that she's not capable of doing her job but something there screams fly by night armorer certified and not a true armorer who really knows what they're doing. That could just be my ignorant assumption though.

sure, the actor is no gun expert, but the guy has gone through the ropes, done several films with guns, can describe a dummy/blank bullet in detail, he knows exactly what he's doing, he skipped protocol, and admitted to it. for all we know, he could have swapped out the bullets at any point and tried to blame the armorer for the kill......

you really dont have to change the subject on explosives where stunt folks are involved, it's a false analogy, actors ARE trained on gun handling.

guns dont store themselves, guns dont clean themselves, and they certainly dont shoot themselves. The armorer's has plenty of tasks to perform, it's a job, and by Alec's own account, she did everything perfect to the T. I cant say if she did, but that's what he said in the interview.

 

[Cajun]

Lets go to Hollywood Video and get Taxi Driver and chill this weekend.

Would...

 

[Hog-train]

The guy deserves to be charged for a few reasons.

1. “It’s a movie” doesn’t make him immune to gun safety, it’s independent, and it doesn’t matter. No different than “ i was playing” then killing someone.
2. “The armory is responsible “, this is not the case, the person holding the gun is responsible.
3. He pulled the trigger

I thought there was still debate on whether he pulled the trigger?

 

[chardog]

I thought there was still debate on whether he pulled the trigger?

<Lmaoo>

that excuse would fly for absolutely nobody

 

[RoastBeast]

sure, the actor is no gun expert, but the guy has gone through the ropes, done several films with guns, can describe a dummy/blank bullet in detail, he knows exactly what he's doing, he skipped protocol, and admitted to it. for all we know, he could have swapped out the bullets at any point and tried to blame the armorer for the kill......

you really dont have to change the subject on explosives where stunt folks are involved, it's a false analogy, actors ARE trained on gun handling.

guns dont store themselves, guns dont clean themselves, and they certainly dont shoot themselves. The armorer's has plenty of tasks to perform, it's a job, and by Alec's own account, she did everything perfect to the T. I cant say if she did, but that's what he said in the interview.

Storing, cleaning and shooting a gun is not what I would consider to be a lot of tasks. Watch a 15 minute youtube video and you can do that yourself. An average McDonald's worker has more responsibilities than what you've described for this armorer on the set.

If she did everything perfect to the T, why was there a live round in the gun?

 

[nhbbear]

Sorry, but this is absolutely ridiculous. I am not a fan of Alec or his politics, but how in the fuck do you charge an actor on a western with murder for shooting a prop gun during filming? He didn’t load the gun and how could he know it was loaded with a real bullet?

 

[chardog]

Sorry, but this is absolutely ridiculous. I am not a fan of Alec or his politics, but how in the fuck do you charge an actor on a western with murder for shooting a prop gun during filming? He didn’t load the gun and how could he know it was loaded with a real bullet?

get with the program buddy,
it was a real gun, not a prop
manslaughter not murder
there are redundancy checks in place by the armorer and the actor, he didnt fulfill his duty.
watch the reenactment video in this thread, there is no reason for him to pull the trigger.

if I gave you an empty gun I cleared and told you to put it to my head and pull the trigger for an "act", what would you do?

Storing, cleaning and shooting a gun is not what I would consider to be a lot of tasks. Watch a 15 minute youtube video and you can do that yourself. An average McDonald's worker has more responsibilities than what you've described for this armorer on the set.

If she did everything perfect to the T, why was there a live round in the gun?

it's not a single gun, there was something like five guns she needs to track, source, document between blanks vs dummies used, on top of that, she was clearing out a jam, and who the heck knows how to do that? safety training of the crew and safety checks that she performs, safety check requests for the actor to perform, it's literally part of her job to ensure that the redundancy is there, and she did her end of the bargain. It clearly is a job just like how a makeup artist on set is a job. Sure, anyone can do their own makeup, but it's just more efficient if one person handled everything.

the thing is that they got complacent, and we're talking about the owner here, who is a top tier narcissist, who couldnt be bothered.

for the sake of argument, lets say the armorer fucked up and put in a live round. That doesnt make her responsible if Alec chose to skip the inspection protocol, That doesnt make her responsible for pointing the gun at someone point blank, that doesnt make her responsible for pulling the trigger.

 

[RoastBeast]

get with the program buddy,
it was a real gun, not a prop
manslaughter not murder
there are redundancy checks in place by the armorer and the actor, he didnt fulfill his duty.
watch the reenactment video in this thread, there is no reason for him to pull the trigger.

if I gave you an empty gun I cleared and told you to put it to my head and pull the trigger for an "act", what would you do?


it's not a single gun, there was something like five guns she needs to track, source, document between blanks vs dummies used, on top of that, she was clearing out a jam, and who the heck knows how to do that? safety training of the crew and safety checks that she performs, safety check requests for the actor to perform, it's literally part of her job to ensure that the redundancy is there, and she did her end of the bargain. It clearly is a job just like how a makeup artist on set is a job. Sure, anyone can do their own makeup, but it's just more efficient if one person handled everything.

the thing is that they got complacent, and we're talking about the owner here, who is a top tier narcissist, who couldnt be bothered.

for the sake of argument, lets say the armorer fucked up and put in a live round. That doesnt make her responsible if Alec chose to skip the inspection protocol, That doesnt make her responsible for pointing the gun at someone point blank, that doesnt make her responsible for pulling the trigger.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree then. I think it's her responsibility to be an armorer, not Alec's. If they need a double check, then hire a second armorer to do that and don't rely on an actor to play part time armorer.

I really don't know who would have put a live round in there if it wasn't the armorer. If it was an actor that did that, then that really leads credence to the fact that actors shouldn't be playing part time armorers.

A gun on a set should literally be idiot proof to handle and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to ensure that the gun is safe for the actors to use.

 

[chardog]

I guess we'll just agree to disagree then. I think it's her responsibility to be an armorer, not Alec's. If they need a double check, then hire a second armorer to do that and don't rely on an actor to play part time armorer.

I really don't know who would have put a live round in there if it wasn't the armorer. If it was an actor that did that, then that really leads credence to the fact that actors shouldn't be playing part time armorers.

A gun on a set should literally be idiot proof to handle and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to ensure that the gun is safe for the actors to use.

it's not that high level of a job, the fact that she's in her 20's pretty much proves it.

anyone handling a gun should ALWAYS have a part in the inspection, ALWAYS. That's basic gun safety, nobody is above that. If that's not acceptable, use a prop/fake gun.

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

Sorry, but this is absolutely ridiculous. I am not a fan of Alec or his politics, but how in the fuck do you charge an actor on a western with murder for shooting a prop gun during filming? He didn’t load the gun and how could he know it was loaded with a real bullet?

He had a responsibility as executive producer to create a safe work environment. He didn't. People complained about an unsafe environment and he still cut corners around safety.

 

[nhbbear]

He had a responsibility as executive producer to create a safe work environment. He didn't. People complained about an unsafe environment and he still cut corners around safety.

Did they ever figure out who put the live round in the gun? If it wasn’t him, why would he have expected there to be a live round in the gun?

Was he the only exec producer? Wouldn’t there be someone in charge of props? I don’t care what his role was, unless he knew there was a live round in the gun, this was an accident not a crime

 

[chardog]

Did they ever figure out who put the live round in the gun? If it wasn’t him, why would he have expected there to be a live round in the gun?

Was he the only exec producer? Wouldn’t there be someone in charge of props? I don’t care what his role was, unless he knew there was a live round in the gun, this was an accident not a crime

the guy protocols for that one scene

armorer claims she felt the bb's indicating dummy rounds
alec didnt do his part, and at minimum, should have looked at the rounds with a quick spin, dummies have a visual indicator, which Alec goes out of his way describing in detail what they look like to the investigators.

who really knows who put in the live round and who's lying, he said she said. Doesnt help Alec that they tried to rush the scene and he was the one rushing everyone. For all we know, it could be the armorer, a disgruntled employee, etc.

"Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.

The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and waiting for their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.

Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set."

- LA times

quite a coincidence

maybe Alec was pointing the gun at them and they didnt feel comfortable? You can speculate all day, but angry workers and guns involved, is probably not a great combination.

 

[Andy Capp]

Edit: deleted, off topic

 

[moreorless87]

the guy protocols for that one scene

armorer claims she felt the bb's indicating dummy rounds
alec didnt do his part, and at minimum, should have looked at the rounds with a quick spin, dummies have a visual indicator, which Alec goes out of his way describing in detail what they look like to the investigators.

who really knows who put in the live round and who's lying, he said she said. Doesnt help Alec that they tried to rush the scene and he was the one rushing everyone. For all we know, it could be the armorer, a disgruntled employee, etc.

"Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.

The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and waiting for their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.

Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set."

- LA times

quite a coincidence

maybe Alec was pointing the gun at them and they didnt feel comfortable? You can speculate all day, but angry workers and guns involved, is probably not a great combination.

Your talking about two very different things, whether Baldwin had anything to do with running an unsafe set and whether he had responsibility for the shooting.

Everything I'v ever heard about onset firearms tends to suggest he didn't have responsibility, that's what the armourer is paid to do, he was told the gun was cold and in that situation should consider it safe. All the stuff about whether he pulled the trigger or not would have nothing to do with whether he had liability by those standards.

As far as him being a producer running an unsafe set, its possible I spose but its much more likely he was never the line producer responsible for running the set, actors get producers credits all the time for extra money without having that job.

 

[DanSavage]

Your talking about two very different things, whether Baldwin had anything to do with running an unsafe set and whether he had responsibility for the shooting.

Everything I'v ever heard about onset firearms tends to suggest he didn't have responsibility, that's what the armourer is paid to do, he was told the gun was cold and in that situation should consider it safe. All the stuff about whether he pulled the trigger or not would have nothing to do with whether he had liability by those standards.

As far as him being a producer running an unsafe set, its possible I spose but its much more likely he was never the line producer responsible for running the set, actors get producers credits all the time for extra money without having that job.

Everyone working in the entertainment industry knows it's an unsafe work place where anyone can get killed or injured at any time. The people involved do what they can to make it safer, but it will never be completely safe. The folks know this and accept it for what it is.

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

Did they ever figure out who put the live round in the gun? If it wasn’t him, why would he have expected there to be a live round in the gun?

Was he the only exec producer? Wouldn’t there be someone in charge of props? I don’t care what his role was, unless he knew there was a live round in the gun, this was an accident not a crime

I'm not stating whether or not I think he is responsible, I'm stating a part of the reason he's being tried.

 

[nhbbear]

I'm not stating whether or not I think he is responsible, I'm stating a part of the reason he's being tried.

I just don’t see that culpability being able to be attributed to him for firing what he thought was a blank-especially on a movie set where blanks had been used and was what would have been expected in a prop gun

 

[HereticBD]

I just don’t see that culpability being able to be attributed to him for firing what he thought was a blank-especially on a movie set where blanks had been used and was what would have been expected in a prop gun

It depends on how responsible he was for the operation. Someone else might've fucked up, but depending on his responsibility for overseeing the set, the catalyst for that fuck up could be traced back to his irresponsibility.

Think of it like when a building collapses and the owner of the building cut corners, and hired shitty contractors on the cheap, who had no business working on it. The owner is gonna get dragged into it, even though they didn't lay one brick.

 

[nhbbear]

It depends on how responsible he was for the operation. Someone else might've fucked up, but depending on his responsibility for overseeing the set, the catalyst for that fuck up could be traced back to his irresponsibility.

Think of it like when a building collapses and the owner of the building cut corners, and hired shitty contractors on the cheap, who had no business working on it. The owner is gonna get dragged into it, even though they didn't lay one brick.

I can see what you’re saying. I personally think that someone sabotaged the gun. Is there proof he cut corners that directly affected safety?