Crime Charges Re-Filed against Alec Baldwin in 'Rust' Shooting. (Update: Armorer's Trial Started)

[HereticBD]

The guy deserves to be charged for a few reasons.

1. “It’s a movie” doesn’t make him immune to gun safety, it’s independent, and it doesn’t matter. No different than “ i was playing” then killing someone.
2. “The armory is responsible “, this is not the case, the person holding the gun is responsible.
3. He pulled the trigger

More compelling

Alex said that every time we’ve done this, she does it right (armorer). 11:50 in the interview. 17:30 he was requested to check the gun, but he brushed it off and doesn’t perform his task, because ultimately, he is responsible, the armorer is simply an assistant to make the transitions smoother.



This guy has no way out other than rich white privilege.

#1 and #2 are gonna be hard to prove, I think, given the circumstances. I think he's partly responsible by proxy, since he is the producer overseeing a lot of it, but I'm not sure how responsible he is for shooting a supposed "prop" gun he trusted was empty/had blanks. I can't imagine that every actor is a gun expert, that doesn't rely on the team to do the safety checks for them.

In a similar incident of gross negligence involving firearms on set, I don't believe the guy who shot Brandon Lee got charged with anything(although I could be wrong). I think to nail Baldwin, it'll have to be related to the carefree and reckless environment he allowed to fester that led to the shooting.

 

[chardog]

#1 and #2 are gonna be hard to prove, I think, given the circumstances. I think he's partly responsible by proxy, since he is the producer overseeing a lot of it, but I'm not sure how responsible he is for shooting a supposed "prop" gun he trusted was empty/had blanks. I can't imagine that every actor is a gun expert, that doesn't rely on the team to do the safety checks for them.

In a similar incident of gross negligence involving firearms on set, I don't believe the guy who shot Brandon Lee got charged with anything(although I could be wrong). I think to nail Baldwin, it'll have to be related to the carefree and reckless environment he allowed to fester that led to the shooting.

it wasnt a prop gun, it was a real gun, you treat it as a real gun when in possession, movie or not, it doesnt matter. You dont point the gun at someone else, that is basic gun safety protocol. "I want that video angle" is not a valid excuse for gun safety.

#2 the armory is not responsible, the person pulling the trigger is. I can hand you a gun, declare it empty, and you can use it to kill someone. That's not my fault. The armory is nothing more than an assistant. If the armorer gave Alex the keys to a car, and he runs over some pedestrian, is it the armorer's fault?

the armorer has a very specific job here, load the bullets, verify, and make sure the talent verifies themselves. that is a little detail that most miss out, alex is the final person to verify the firearm, which has visibly different bullets than live rounds. Once again, the armorer verifies, and has the actor verify, it's their job, Alex didnt want to verify in this scenario according to his own words.

 

[RoastBeast]

it wasnt a prop gun, it was a real gun, you treat it as a real gun when in possession, movie or not, it doesnt matter. You dont point the gun at someone else, that is basic gun safety protocol. "I want that video angle" is not a valid excuse for gun safety.

#2 the armory is not responsible, the person pulling the trigger is. I can hand you a gun, declare it empty, and you can use it to kill someone. That's not my fault. The armory is nothing more than an assistant. If the armorer gave Alex the keys to a car, and he runs over some pedestrian, is it the armorer's fault?

the armorer has a very specific job here, load the bullets, verify, and make sure the talent verifies themselves. that is a little detail that most miss out, alex is the final person to verify the firearm, which has visibly different bullets than live rounds. Once again, the armorer verifies, and has the actor verify, it's their job, Alex didnt want to verify in this scenario according to his own words.

I get what you're saying but it makes the armorer's job irrelevant. You're basically saying the actor has to be an armorer as well because they have to check every single thing the armorer did before they use the gun on the set. If that's the case, then there is no point in ever having a stand alone armorer and every single actor who has ever used a gun on a movie set also needs to be an armorer as well.

The point of hiring an armorer is to ensure the actors themselves don't have to have the knowledge of an armorer.

 

[chardog]

I get what you're saying but it makes the armorer's job irrelevant. You're basically saying the actor has to be an armorer as well because they have to check every single thing the armorer did before they use the gun on the set. If that's the case, then there is no point in ever having a stand alone armorer and every single actor who has ever used a gun on a movie set also needs to be an armorer as well.

The point of hiring an armorer is to ensure the actors themselves don't have to have the knowledge of an armorer.

the actor has a duty to check the weapon, that's it.

the armorer has more duties than simply checking the weapon
train the actors
handle the weapons
select the guns
ammo
cleaning the weapons (often thrown in sand)
explain safety
etc.

no matter what the situation, I can hand you a gun, and tell you to point to a baby and fire, "we're just acting", would you do it?

this scenario is no different, he pointed at the DP, he fired, she dead. I cant even say it's an accident, is Alex really that dumb to point the gun at someone at point blank range? even the camera is off at an angle.

 

[emefer]

Haven't watched those lemon movies though I watched the others. Baldwins best was 30 Rock.

You should have a lemon party and watch them.

 

[RoastBeast]

the actor has a duty to check the weapon, that's it.

the armorer has more duties than simply checking the weapon
train the actors
handle the weapons
select the guns
ammo
cleaning the weapons (often thrown in sand)
explain safety
etc.

no matter what the situation, I can hand you a gun, and tell you to point to a baby and fire, "we're just acting", would you do it?

this scenario is no different, he pointed at the DP, he fired, she dead. I cant even say it's an accident, is Alex really that dumb to point the gun at someone at point blank range? even the camera is off at an angle.

I personally think it's stupid to be using real guns on a set with all the technology we have at our disposal but I still think the armorer's job is nearly completely irrelevant if the actor has to essentially check everything over themselves.

I just don't think us being at home and you handing me a gun and telling me to point it toward a baby and fire is the best analogy in this case. You aren't an armorer and I have no reason in the world to point a gun of any type at a baby. On set, there is an armorer who is hired to specifically ensure that the gun is safe and the actors point the guns at each other because it's what actors do for a living on set.

If you are the "gun guy" out of your group of friends and one of your friends who knows nothing about guns wants to take a look at your Glock and you unload it and hand it to him, he's going to trust that you know enough about your own gun to be able to fully unload it and/or tell him that it could still be loaded. You don't hand your Glock over to a friend with little to no experience with guns and expect them to pull the slide back and check the chamber for a live round.

The difference is that you tell your friend to never pull the trigger under any circumstances. On set, it's your job to pull the trigger. It's not your job to pull the slide back or the mag out and do a full inspection. That's the armorer's job.

 

[Cajun]

You should have a lemon party and watch them.

These days I feel outta place. I grew up on old movies but even people my age may not have. I'm gonna throw a party of 1

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

These days I feel outta place. I grew up on old movies but even people my age may not have. I'm gonna throw a party of 1

Lets go to Hollywood Video and get Taxi Driver and chill this weekend.

 

[chardog]

I personally think it's stupid to be using real guns on a set with all the technology we have at our disposal but I still think the armorer's job is nearly completely irrelevant if the actor has to essentially check everything over themselves.

I just don't think us being at home and you handing me a gun and telling me to point it toward a baby and fire is the best analogy in this case. You aren't an armorer and I have no reason in the world to point a gun of any type at a baby. On set, there is an armorer who is hired to specifically ensure that the gun is safe and the actors point the guns at each other because it's what actors do for a living on set.

If you are the "gun guy" out of your group of friends and one of your friends who knows nothing about guns wants to take a look at your Glock and you unload it and hand it to him, he's going to trust that you know enough about your own gun to be able to fully unload it and/or tell him that it could still be loaded. You don't hand your Glock over to a friend with little to no experience with guns and expect them to pull the slide back and check the chamber for a live round.

The difference is that you tell your friend to never pull the trigger under any circumstances. On set, it's your job to pull the trigger. It's not your job to pull the slide back or the mag out and do a full inspection. That's the armorer's job.

here is the deal

you are putting way too much emphasis on the armorer, which is essentially a glorified assistant.

the armorer has a ton of tasks to do other than checking ammo, so she's not irrelevant, someone has to do the job! there are multiple guns to handle, there is a lot of ammo to handle, she goes through safety protocols with the actor and Alec in his own words said she did it to perfection, and in his own words, the armorer requested alex to look at the ammo, because it's her job to inform him to perform his end of the deal, there is redundancy so that these accidents dont happen.

you gotta read between the lines here, I dont know what entails in the job of an armorer other than what I picked up in the interviews of hanna and alex. One thing is clear, there is a redundancy check, but all that really doesnt matter either because at the end of the day, they're playing make believe with a gun, the person shooting is at fault for simple reasons.

Pointing a gun at someone - not following protocol
not inspecting - not following protocol

my analogy is perfectly valid, dont ever F around with guns, it's not a toy.

 

[HereticBD]

Pointing a gun at someone - not following protocol
not inspecting - not following protocol

my analogy is perfectly valid, dont ever F around with guns, it's not a toy.

But this is on a movie set where fucking around with guns is practically required. They point guns at each other all the time. They are essentially "toys" on a movie set. What it's supposed to be, is a controlled environment. The armorer is also not a "glorified assistant". It's literally their job to create a safe environment when guns are involved. You got it backwards. The actor would be the glorified assistant in this regard. You could be working with a 13 year old actor who has never touched a gun before. Is it their fault if the armorer hands them a loaded gun, and then even after the actor personally checked it with the basic knowledge they were taught in a few weeks, they still shoot somebody? No. They're not the expert.

 

[chardog]

But this is on a movie set where fucking around with guns is practically required. They point guns at each other all the time. They are essentially "toys" on a movie set. What it's supposed to be, is a controlled environment. The armorer is also not a "glorified assistant". It's literally their job to create a safe environment when guns are involved. You got it backwards. The actor would be the glorified assistant in this regard. You could be working with a 13 year old actor who has never touched a gun before. Is it their fault if the armorer hands them a loaded gun, and then even after the actor personally checked it with the basic knowledge they were taught in a few weeks, they still shoot somebody? No. They're not the expert.

first off, it doesnt make it right, you can tell it to the judge. "it's for a movie" is not a valid excuse for goofing off with guns. That's not a real argument.

if you're not trained to use a gun, you shouldn't be touching it. Alec was trained. secondly, there is a system for redundancy, the prop bullets are visibly different, Alec describes them in detail in the interview, he knows the difference, the armorer knows the difference. Alec has been in several movies with guns involved, he's not only trained, he's well trained.

there is a redundancy system, I got that much in the interview, the Actor is part of that redundancy system, and it makes sense, he's the one playing pretend cowboy.

 

[Poon Goon]

if you're not trained to use a gun, you shouldn't be touching it. Alec was trained.

This is a picture of Baldwin touching a gun in the 1990 movie Miami Blues. He also played the sheriff in the 1984 TV movie The Sheriff and the Astronaut, he likely touched a gun then too.

 

[JustforBROCK]

He won't be convicted, and the only reason he's being tried is because he did trump on SNL.

 

[HereticBD]

first off, it doesnt make it right, you can tell it to the judge. "it's for a movie" is not a valid excuse for goofing off with guns. That's not a real argument.

But they do goof around with guns on movie sets. They goof around with cars as well. It's a wholly different environment with different legal standards. If a stunt driver kills someone by losing control of a car on set, it'll be treated differently than if someone did it on a residential street, and they'll looking at who was in charge of the safety protocols on set, as the risk was assumed. The driver wouldn't be charged with "Reckless driving causing death", like they would be in the real world.

if you're not trained to use a gun, you shouldn't be touching it. Alec was trained. secondly, there is a system for redundancy, the prop bullets are visibly different, Alec describes them in detail in the interview, he knows the difference, the armorer knows the difference. Alec has been in several movies with guns involved, he's not only trained, he's well trained.

there is a redundancy system, I got that much in the interview, the Actor is part of that redundancy system, and it makes sense, he's the one playing pretend cowboy.

The armorer actually couldn't tell the difference in this case, which is how the dummy rounds got mixed in with the live rounds.

Like I said, I think Baldwin is partly responsible for being a producer and letting the set get out of control. However, it was the armorer who brought all the chaos on to the set. She brought the live rounds on set, which is a big no no, right off the bat. That's the catalyst right there. This incident is all her responsibility. Baldwin perhaps shares some responsibility in that regard, for letting the environment fester to that point, but the live round being in the gun is the fault of the armorer.

 

[AbominableJoman]

The guy deserves to be charged for a few reasons.

1. “It’s a movie” doesn’t make him immune to gun safety, it’s independent, and it doesn’t matter. No different than “ i was playing” then killing someone.
2. “The armory is responsible “, this is not the case, the person holding the gun is responsible.
3. He pulled the trigger

More compelling

Alex said that every time we’ve done this, she does it right (armorer). 11:50 in the interview. 17:30 he was requested to check the gun, but he brushed it off and doesn’t perform his task, because ultimately, he is responsible, the armorer is simply an assistant to make the transitions smoother.



This guy has no way out other than rich white privilege.

Tbf he could just claim to be part black and play the race card. Not only would he get off, but probably have a statue built and become a martyr….

 

[chardog]

But they do goof around with guns on movie sets. They goof around with cars as well. It's a wholly different environment with different legal standards. If a stunt driver kills someone by losing control of a car on set, it'll be treated differently than if someone did it on a residential street, and they'll looking at who was in charge of the safety protocols on set, as the risk was assumed. The driver wouldn't be charged with "Reckless driving causing death", like they would be in the real world.


The armorer actually couldn't tell the difference in this case, which is how the dummy rounds got mixed in with the live rounds.

Like I said, I think Baldwin is partly responsible for being a producer and letting the set get out of control. However, it was the armorer who brought all the chaos on to the set. She brought the live rounds on set, which is a big no no, right off the bat. That's the catalyst right there. This incident is all her responsibility. Baldwin perhaps shares some responsibility in that regard, for letting the environment fester to that point, but the live round being in the gun is the fault of the armorer.

in the interview, she couldnt tell, from what I recall, they were pictures and based on the view, you cant tell, but a rear /front view, you can tell. On top of that, you can shake the bullet, it's filled with bb. in an accidental death, you can be charged with manslaughter.

as for the stunt men, afaik, they've only killed themselves and not others, there is no precedent.

 

[HockeyBjj]

if this is how hollywood operates, then manslaughter

seems like high levels of negligence at minimum.

film crew does not need to stand in front of the gun (live or not), remote viewing systems have existed for a while now, even budget systems exist
Amazon product ASIN B0BDD8KHFG
the interviews of baldwin rushing the crew seems like there is some contention between them.

There's nothing wrong with a film crew standing in front of what should be a prop gun. It should be as safe as playing laser tag as a kid.

Something like a remote camera would only be if they were trying to shoot blanks right at a camera for the effect

A) having live ammo anywhere near a film shoot it just.... mindblowingly dumb. This shit right here is where whoever allowed that on set should be charged for negligent manslaughter. And Baldwin was the producer and personally on set so imo that's him.

B) even prop guns are typically disabled to not not be able to fire, even if they get loaded. The only ones that aren't are the ones used to shoot blanks. And crew treat blanks and blank guns like they're real loaded firearms.

 

[RoastBeast]

here is the deal

you are putting way too much emphasis on the armorer, which is essentially a glorified assistant.

the armorer has a ton of tasks to do other than checking ammo, so she's not irrelevant, someone has to do the job! there are multiple guns to handle, there is a lot of ammo to handle, she goes through safety protocols with the actor and Alec in his own words said she did it to perfection, and in his own words, the armorer requested alex to look at the ammo, because it's her job to inform him to perform his end of the deal, there is redundancy so that these accidents dont happen.

you gotta read between the lines here, I dont know what entails in the job of an armorer other than what I picked up in the interviews of hanna and alex. One thing is clear, there is a redundancy check, but all that really doesnt matter either because at the end of the day, they're playing make believe with a gun, the person shooting is at fault for simple reasons.

Pointing a gun at someone - not following protocol
not inspecting - not following protocol

my analogy is perfectly valid, dont ever F around with guns, it's not a toy.

I get what you're saying but I really think you're minimizing the armorer's responsibility here. From the sounds of it, there isn't a whole lot that the armorer needs to do. If anything, the movie production company should hire 2 armorers that can double check each other. Asking an actor to double check an armorers work is just asking for trouble. Actors are not gun experts and knowing whether a gun is loaded or not is not common sense. Especially with a semi auto pistol. An actor doesn't have to double check their rigging or the platform they're standing on or the explosives they're about to set off. There are trained personnel hired by the production company to specifically do those jobs. It's the job of the professionals to ensure the work space is safe for the actors to act in.

I would place 5% of the blame on Alec and 95% on the armorer.

Haven't read much on it in months but I remember the armorer girl not looking like what you would think an armorer would look like. That doesn't mean that she's not capable of doing her job but something there screams fly by night armorer certified and not a true armorer who really knows what they're doing. That could just be my ignorant assumption though.

 

[MichiganMMA1978]

the armorer has a ton of tasks to do other than checking ammo, so she's not irrelevant, someone has to do the job! there are multiple guns to handle, there is a lot of ammo to handle, she goes through safety protocols with the actor and Alec in his own words said she did it to perfection, and in his own words, the armorer requested alex to look at the ammo, because it's her job to inform him to perform his end of the deal, there is redundancy so that these accidents dont happen.

You also stated one of the tasks is to train the actors. If true, they obviously failed in that regard. If it's true they instructed Alec to check the weapon, then why did they not ensure that happened?
That weapon was on set to literally be pointed and fired at the other actors... 100% the responsibility of the expert to make sure everything happens by protocol!

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

This is a picture of Baldwin touching a gun in the 1990 movie Miami Blues. He also played the sheriff in the 1984 TV movie The Sheriff and the Astronaut, he likely touched a gun then too.

looks like he had terrible trigger discipline then too.