How have your opinions of BJJ changed over the years?

[Uchi Mata]

I came from a traditional martial arts background, so I had already gotten over the 'black belts are masters of life' and the surprise at the level of politics in martial arts phases. BJJ politics are no worse than politics in any other area of life, you just roll with it and try not to associate yourself with people who worry too much about that side of it.

I've been in the grappling game on and off for 14 years, and I think I'm just now starting to figure some things out. That really just makes me want to do more of it, but I've also become more cognizant of the toll it takes on my physically and mentally and I'm starting to pace myself more. That's less a function of my time in the art than it is my age though, if I could still train like I did at 20 I would. I've seen BJJ explode as a competitive sport in its own right as opposed to just a base for MMA, and I think most of that has been for the better. I don't have any particular beef with the IBJJF, it's not like prior to the IBJJF there were all these great non-profit BJJ orgs which were hosting high level tournaments. There are definitely things I would change about the competition scene but I wouldn't want to go back to having basically no competitions outside of Brazil where even those would have things like lights going out in the middle of fights and your opponent's coach reffing your match.

I also don't think that the decline of self defense practice in BJJ is a bad thing necessarily. There used to not be MMA gyms, so it made sense for people who were interested in real self defense to get it from BJJ. Now there are MMA gyms everywhere, if you want to learn how to strike and grapple and integrate the two why would you need to put on a gi and learn 3rd rate TMA striking from a ground grappling expert? You'd just go to an MMA gym, which is what most people who are interested in really learning how to fight do. BJJ has become a sport; well and good, Judo and wrestling are sports and it hasn't hurt them any. Even things like double guard pulls and 50/50 are mostly problems only for those at the top of the competition ladder, they certainly don't feature in my matches or most of the matches I see outside of the finals at Mundials.

Overall I think BJJ has progressed technically and organizationally since I started, and I've really enjoyed learning the new stuff that comes out of the competition scene as well as competing myself. I've become more aware of my own physical limitations and I'm trying to work within them, though my need is strong and I often over train. The one thing that's probably changed is I don't really separate arts in my head like I used to, it's all just become grappling to me. There are certain classes I can go to when I need certain things (I go to Judo to practice gi standup, for example), but I don't really distinguish the various grappling arts other than by competition rule set. I couldn't give two shits what art a given move came from, or who from one art could beat someone from another. At this point my goals are to compete as long as I can, learn as much as I can from whoever knows more than me, and practice as much as my body and normal life obligations allow.

 

[Balto]

Can some of you guys who have issues with gym politics give some examples?

I think there is a distinction to be made between run of the mill gym politics and more serious dirtbag stuff.

Run of the mill gym politics is like if you train with X, you can't let him know if you train with Y because X and Y had a falling out. Ari on the BB track is probably another example of this. It's still wrong, but it's a little easier to just ignore.

The serious dirtbag stuff is more like actual crimes being committed. It's like X is doing some pretty illegal stuff, but Y just turns a blind eye to it because if Y says anything about it, X has threatened to try to get him deported, ruin his business, retaliate against his family in Brazil, etc.

So yeah it's a little harder to just laugh that stuff off.

 

[mattemate]

Good thread so far.

 

[Torre]

I don't know if my opinions changed, though I'm just a blue belt with 2.5 years of training. I guess I'm lucky because I walked into a gym that fits me like a glove, old school style, but not shying away from tournaments. My teacher is a cool guy and we have a great atmosphere for the most part. We just got our first taste of political bullshit when my teacher's instructor (a Rickson black belt) was invited to teach a seminar at a Gracie Barra affiliate, and their head guy in the country made the organizer cancel, saying that he shouldn't invite outside teachers But since I'm used to this stuff from my karate days, I wasn't too surprised.

 

[kjg1672]

I came from a traditional martial arts background, so I had already gotten over the 'black belts are masters of life' and the surprise at the level of politics in martial arts phases. BJJ politics are no worse than politics in any other area of life, you just roll with it and try not to associate yourself with people who worry too much about that side of it.

I've been in the grappling game on and off for 14 years, and I think I'm just now starting to figure some things out. That really just makes me want to do more of it, but I've also become more cognizant of the toll it takes on my physically and mentally and I'm starting to pace myself more. That's less a function of my time in the art than it is my age though, if I could still train like I did at 20 I would. I've seen BJJ explode as a competitive sport in its own right as opposed to just a base for MMA, and I think most of that has been for the better. I don't have any particular beef with the IBJJF, it's not like prior to the IBJJF there were all these great non-profit BJJ orgs which were hosting high level tournaments. There are definitely things I would change about the competition scene but I wouldn't want to go back to having basically no competitions outside of Brazil where even those would have things like lights going out in the middle of fights and your opponent's coach reffing your match.

I also don't think that the decline of self defense practice in BJJ is a bad thing necessarily. There used to not be MMA gyms, so it made sense for people who were interested in real self defense to get it from BJJ. Now there are MMA gyms everywhere, if you want to learn how to strike and grapple and integrate the two why would you need to put on a gi and learn 3rd rate TMA striking from a ground grappling expert? You'd just go to an MMA gym, which is what most people who are interested in really learning how to fight do. BJJ has become a sport; well and good, Judo and wrestling are sports and it hasn't hurt them any. Even things like double guard pulls and 50/50 are mostly problems only for those at the top of the competition ladder, they certainly don't feature in my matches or most of the matches I see outside of the finals at Mundials.

Overall I think BJJ has progressed technically and organizationally since I started, and I've really enjoyed learning the new stuff that comes out of the competition scene as well as competing myself. I've become more aware of my own physical limitations and I'm trying to work within them, though my need is strong and I often over train. The one thing that's probably changed is I don't really separate arts in my head like I used to, it's all just become grappling to me. There are certain classes I can go to when I need certain things (I go to Judo to practice gi standup, for example), but I don't really distinguish the various grappling arts other than by competition rule set. I couldn't give two shits what art a given move came from, or who from one art could beat someone from another. At this point my goals are to compete as long as I can, learn as much as I can from whoever knows more than me, and practice as much as my body and normal life obligations allow.

This is pretty much what I would have written if I were more articulate.

 

[platfox]

Actually I just show up a few random days a year (I get an itch and need a grappling fix, basically.) Huff and puff like a fat-ass and then disappear for a while.

I basically make sure that that the days I show up are not when we are having a big promotion ceremony or seminar or something. Because I would feel like a super chump or poser if I only showed up for those things.

==============

For example, I remember last year (maybe the end of 2012)...Budo Videos came by to film rolled up. People came out of the woodwork that I hadn't seen train in months. Showed up in their best gis with their hair styled. I couldn't help but think ..WTF is this? It seems really fake to me.

I think we are on a similar path. I'm just about a year behind you. I've been training for 6 years. Last year I only made it to about 20 classes (injuries and life changes). This year may be even less than 20.

Feel ya on the part about coming in after long breaks huffing and puffing trying to keep up with the regulars, lol. It sucks. Your brain wants to do things but your body can't move the way it used to. Legs are like wet noodles half way through class. You forget all the little details like the difference between controlling someone in side control and them just shrimping away.

 

[ijustwannasurf]

Can some of you guys who have issues with gym politics give some examples?

The most common issues I see are about money. People feel they deserve a bigger piece of the pie, and switch gyms or start their own. Sometimes they're in the right, sometimes they're just greedy, or delusional.

I've never seen or heard of anyone switching academies for a promotion, at least locally. There have been some shady businesses based promotions, but I file that with paragraph one.

As far as team/social loyalty, it depends on the individual relationships. If everyone is getting what they need, its all good. If you need to make a change, be respectful and open about it. If you can't discuss it with a level head, you need to sit down and figure out the issue really is.

 

[TalkShowOnMute]

I think we are on a similar path. I'm just about a year behind you. I've been training for 6 years. Last year I only made it to about 20 classes (injuries and life changes). This year may be even less than 20.

Feel ya on the part about coming in after long breaks huffing and puffing trying to keep up with the regulars, lol. It sucks. Your brain wants to do things but your body can't move the way it used to. Legs are like wet noodles half way through class. You forget all the little details like the difference between controlling someone in side control and them just shrimping away.

For sure man. It's like being a perpetual noob. And the cardio and flexibility do not return fast enough...especially the older I get.

I'm also unfortunately prone to joint issues..my connective tissues are apparently made of actual tissue paper...and my spine and knees are jacked. I can't really be "explosive" anymore. And in that case it can be hard to handle the guys with cardio and strength at full potential, especially if their technique is as good or better than your own.

But I go through that torture knowing it is my own fault for never being there and coming back expecting to do anything worth a damn. :icon_sad:

 

[LoRezzz]

I started with Rickson in 1994. Everyone had some other martial arts background. It was all about street fighting then. We used to put on gloves and practice takedowns and work from the guard with punches. Submissions were all that mattered. Now, it seems to be all about tournaments, advantages, and competing in your own weight class.

The level of ground grappling is better now overall. But, there is a disconnect from reality. The little standup that we do now is MMA ring related. There is no punching to the groin, multiple attackers, eye gouging, or biting.

And, there is no discussion of weapons whatsoever. It is if they don't exist. Heck, I remember Rickson bringing a Sig Sauer 45 caliber handgun to class. No big deal. it was just a tool. It was a different time with a different emphasis.

Also, back in the day, it was understood that you could train your whole life and not get a black belt. There were no belts for attendance or "A"s for effort. Most of us believed we would never make it past blue or purple. But, that was okay. The belts were real. We liked that. It was a welcome change from the arts we came from - karate or kung fu. Unfortunately, that changed too.

Some good. Some bad.

This sounds very interesting and very different from today's BJJ. I wish I could experience it, but it doesn't sound like there are any gyms with this type of singular focus on the self-defense aspect. Also sounds similar to some JKD classes I've read about, where they account for all kinds of things.

 

[imarayda]

When I first started I didn't really think there was politics, and I didn't care to much for tournaments just because I didn't understand the point system.

Now, I realized that being "loyal"=monthly payments. ive also seen belts given away which was pretty bad. I've changed my mind on how i view the point system in place, the best bjj guys usually win and complaining about points comes from people who have weaknesses in their games and would rather address the scoring then themselves.

 

[Kantian_relativist]

Quality control has definitely decreased, and I think this is a simple function of popularity. As more and more people open schools, direct oversight will become increasingly difficult. I think bjj will continue to move towards an ATA Taekwondo type model where there is less of an emphasis on time in rank, as it tends to undermine monetary gains. Further, BJJ frequently seems to be moving away from its emphasis on sparring to make it more palatable to soccer moms. Ultimately, bjj is a business for many who instruct it, and this can often run directly against the quality control that was so strict a decade or so ago. I don't ever think it will get as bad as taekwondo has, simply because the art doesn't lend itself to kata, but I expect to see an inreased focus on drilling and less on live rolls.

It makes me sad, but this is the way of things when people are trying to make a living. I'll be a black belt in a couple years, so all I can do is control my corner of the universe to preserve what I believe the art should be about. I no longer allow myself to get upset about the Gracie Academy online blue belts in the area, even though they are very, very bad. They speak to a certain market, and there is little I can do to change that.

 

[Jeff Goldblum69]

Why's Goldblum got dubs? 10 years on this forum, never got dubs. And I've definitely said some stupid shit!

Put it this way mate, if you haven't got anything nice to say about gracie university and online belts......don't say anything at all

 

[TalkShowOnMute]

Put it this way mate, if you haven't got anything nice to say about gracie university and online belts......don't say anything at all

I think the technique is a great supplement to an actual school. I would never agree that it would make a good primary training method. (Unless you live in a very remote location, or for some reason training otherwise is impossible.)

But then just let it be what it is...a correspondence course.

 

[Balto]

Quality control has definitely decreased, and I think this is a simple function of popularity. As more and more people open schools, direct oversight will become increasingly difficult. I think bjj will continue to move towards an ATA Taekwondo type model where there is less of an emphasis on time in rank, as it tends to undermine monetary gains. Further, BJJ frequently seems to be moving away from its emphasis on sparring to make it more palatable to soccer moms. Ultimately, bjj is a business for many who instruct it, and this can often run directly against the quality control that was so strict a decade or so ago. I don't ever think it will get as bad as taekwondo has, simply because the art doesn't lend itself to kata, but I expect to see an inreased focus on drilling and less on live rolls.

It makes me sad, but this is the way of things when people are trying to make a living. I'll be a black belt in a couple years, so all I can do is control my corner of the universe to preserve what I believe the art should be about. I no longer allow myself to get upset about the Gracie Academy online blue belts in the area, even though they are very, very bad. They speak to a certain market, and there is little I can do to change that.

Overall quality has definitely gone down, even though high end quality is up.

Blue belts were teaching when I started too. The difference is that the blue belts back then were generally pretty dedicated to improvement and quality, which is why they were teaching in the first place. Black belts were scarce, and we did what we could. This produced decent results given the limited resources available.

Nowadays, blue belts are teaching because they want to get paid $30/class or whatever at LA Boxing to be the grappling equivalent of a Zumba teacher. It's a pretty big difference.

 

[Kantian_relativist]

Overall quality has definitely gone down, even though high end quality is up.

Blue belts were teaching when I started too. The difference is that the blue belts back then were generally pretty dedicated to improvement and quality, which is why they were teaching in the first place. Black belts were scarce, and we did what we could. This produced decent results given the limited resources available.

Nowadays, blue belts are teaching because they want to get paid $30/class or whatever at LA Boxing to be the grappling equivalent of a Zumba teacher. It's a pretty big difference.

Re: blue belts. It was the same for us. Being in South Dakota meant going to Minnesota for a black belt. We drove each other to improve, but part of what made us good is that we knew we suffered from a lack of high end instruction. So we traveled when we could and competed as much as possible. Now, this http://www.johnsonsata.com/ is what drives things. Unfortunately, it's the high end folks who are causing this move. The ripple effects of the choices reflected here may do little, but they may also do serious harm.

 

[Oldguy]

This sounds very interesting and very different from today's BJJ. I wish I could experience it, but it doesn't sound like there are any gyms with this type of singular focus on the self-defense aspect. Also sounds similar to some JKD classes I've read about, where they account for all kinds of things.

I feel very fortunate to have experienced BJJ in the 1990s. It is hard to describe. My start was before the first UFC. I had just received my Shotokan black belt. One day, I saw the Gracie in Action video at a martial arts bookstore. It was like I just learned the world was not flat. I just stood there and watched the strikers get destroyed. The guy behind the counter told me it was Brazilian. I thought to myself, "The Brazilians have martial arts?" He gave me Rickson's card. I went to my first private with Rickson in Laguna Nigel (I pronounced it with an "R").

I knew instantly that this was the real deal. One time when he was describing a potential self defense scenario, he matter of factly said, "So, there this guy. He rapu yu sista..." He went on to explain the situation and the response. I'm thinking to myself - Who are these people? What I took away - it was clear what they were teaching wasn't a game. They meant business.

People would line up to pay $35 for a half hour private with Rickson. Luis always had a fist full of cash. You could count on a line of people waiting. We trained in one of the raquetball courts on mats. The electricity in the air was amazing. I remember one night, a Kenpo instructor came to fight Rickson. After he warmed up, Rickson in a very friendly manner patted him on the shoulder and gave a hug. We all moved back to the walls. Then it started. After trying to strike him a few times, the Kenpo instructor shot a firemans carry. He actually picked Rickson up and as he was executing the throw, I could see on Rickson's face he was just calmly calculating what he was going to do. I still am not sure how it happened. But, Rickson ended up mounted when the throw was done. I was an amazing sight. He submitted him several times effortlessly.

As a brand new white belt, I really couldn't appreciate the technical things that I wish I could experience now. But, I do remember the atmosphere and attitudes. Rickson was the absolute coolest guy in the world to a complete white belt spaz (me). He treated me very respectfully and I really got the feeling he was trying to teach me what I could absorb. To this day, I still hear him say, "Take the move your opponent gives you, not the one you want to take." You could make that a philosophy of life.

After the first UFC happened, everything changed. The secret was out. Just like everything in life, there has been some good and some not so good.

 

[Goat Meal]

I started training in no-gi in 2004 and really didn't take it seriously. In 2008 I began training in the gi just to sharpen up my grappling for MMA but then life happened and I fell out of love with fighting. I stuck with BJJ because I met a lot of really cool people and I think even the sport application has self-defense benefits (I'd love to be at a gym with a 100% self-defense focus, though). It's 2014 now and I've been a blue belt going on 4 years. I just train for the camaraderie and to exercise but my days of fighting or even competing in tournaments are long gone. I just don't give a shit. I'll try to train at least twice a week but with a family now there are many weeks that I don't train at all and that's fine by me. I'm still one of the toughest rolls for the first 3 rounds, then after that I'm gassed and worn out.

 

[Rod1]

I thought it was a shitty judo newaza knock-off for american yuppies who was popular because it had tought fighters to promote the sport.

To incredibly fun martial art with its own rules and objectives and which breed tough people.

 

[dmwalking]

I still love BJJ as an artform. I once saw it as the ultimate artform. Then I realized that it was simply a plug. It plugged the hole that most fighters had. The ground game. now that everyone knows a little BJJ, it's not the ultimate martial art but a piece of a complete puzzle.

I also believe that BJJ has evolved more toward sport. It hasn't evolved well for MMA.


But regardless of seeing behind the curtain and learning that santa claus isn't real, it's still my favorite martial art and my favorite sport to play.

As a culture, I've developed a bad taste in my mouth. I care about honor and all that. But some guys just take it too far. Bowing 1000000 times, and Ossssssss every two seconds. Nah, I'm good. I want to have fun. All that formality is too rigid for my tastes.

Plus the politics involved are annoying. Even still, I love BJJ and likely practice til my body can't take it.

 

[otwobjj]

The first thing I saw when I got into BJJ was a video of a black belt who put a compilation from his "white belt to black belt journey" video of himself online. That video was amazing and filled with competition action (Take downs, mean submissions, crazy passes) and really looked awesome. I look back at the video now and I just don't feel like that is what current BJJ is like anymore...

The guard has become a better/safer option and in my opinion, this is where BJJ in the Gi is headed. It's no longer making sense for people to stick to top position because its simply not as strong as the bottom when the Gi is on.

Basically, it feels like I am doing a slightly diffrent sport now than what I thought I was doing when I started. I still love it and I am passionate about but I stick to No-gi in competition because I still get to play my game (Wrestling, staying on top, passing).