How have your opinions of BJJ changed over the years?

[Badger67]

don't you think tournaments like Abu Dhabi and Metamoris, gracie nationals, (eddie bravo has a new comp) are changing this?... I feel like there is a big shift in the BJJ community (physically and philosophically) moving away from the IBJJF.

Abu Dhabi has been around for a while, metamoris is nice but not often enough to really make a difference. I'm unfamiliar with gracie nationals, and most tournaments near my area are IBJJF and are the main tournaments my team goes to. Basically, for every ten IBJJF tournaments, there is 1-2 others not IBJJF. I typically attend 2-4 tournaments a year within my area that i can make, all IBJJF sanctioned and typically our head is affiliated in some manner directly with the tournament.

I've had more fun at mixed grappling events than IBJJF tournaments, and despise starting on "brazilian time". I have yet to see one be on time.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Overall quality has definitely gone down, even though high end quality is up.

Blue belts were teaching when I started too. The difference is that the blue belts back then were generally pretty dedicated to improvement and quality, which is why they were teaching in the first place. Black belts were scarce, and we did what we could. This produced decent results given the limited resources available.

Nowadays, blue belts are teaching because they want to get paid $30/class or whatever at LA Boxing to be the grappling equivalent of a Zumba teacher. It's a pretty big difference.

I disagree. A competitive purple belt now would beat a lot of black belts from the early 2000s. I think there are about the same % of casual grapplers as there ever were in the US in relation to the number of serious people, but overall technical skill is higher across the board. There are probably lot more people who briefly try BJJ and then give it up just because BJJ is more accessible, but in terms of people who stick with it I think quality is way up.

 

[lechien]

I think it is better that there is more instructors out there.

There always been bad instructors in the past, having more instructors is better for the sport in general as customers can choose instead of getting stocked with the same instructor.

also, you can compare and see if you are getting ripped off.

The availability of videos and dvs, books out there is great, the students can see in their own eyes that their instructors are lazy or outdated.

Believe it or not, you still have instructors out there that banned their students to watch any videos..

LMFAO.

 

[ThatBJJGuy]

How do you stop it?

works for me

I dont mean to brag or anything lol! I just really dislike being trapped in a guard like that or 50/50 so I drilled the escapes a lot...if I ever got stuck inside it.

 

[TexDeuce]

I would be embarrassed to have a McDojo BJJ black belt. Some guys are getting them way too easy these days. Whatever, I don't give a shit really. If they want to have their black belt and get their ass handed to them by lower level guys, so be it.

 

[lechien]

works for me

I dont mean to brag or anything lol! I just really dislike being trapped in a guard like that or 50/50 so I drilled the escapes a lot...if I ever got stuck inside it.

do you have link? because that gif does not work for me. or is it supposed to be a picture.

 

[Balto]

I disagree. A competitive purple belt now would beat a lot of black belts from the early 2000s. I think there are about the same % of casual grapplers as there ever were in the US in relation to the number of serious people, but overall technical skill is higher across the board. There are probably lot more people who briefly try BJJ and then give it up just because BJJ is more accessible, but in terms of people who stick with it I think quality is way up.

You're measuring absolute quality, and it is true that has gone up. But that is a pretty meaningless measurement in an art where quality equates to how you stack up against others on the mat.

It's like saying that a 2014 Chevy Cavalier is nicer than a luxury car from the 1920s. Yeah, it is. But at the same time, unless you have a magic time machine back to Gatsby's day, no one is going to think that is a nice car anymore in 2014.

The key is relative quality. And relative quality has gone down overall from what I have seen.

The initial black belts that moved here from Brazil were pretty hardcore to begin with. No average, kind of okay maybe black belt is going to fly to another continent with basically no money to try to somehow make a living teaching how to beat people up. It took balls and confidence. And the other guys traveling around and doing their best as blues and purples had the same attitude.

You even mention competitive purple belt as a rank. When I started, there was no such thing as competitive or non-competitive. You just were, or you weren't. There was not this massive gap between competitive guys and non-competitive guys. Some guys were obviously better than others, but pretty much everyone competed a couple times a year at local stuff minimum. If you said "I don't compete" back then, people thought something was wrong with you.

Nowadays there is a massive gap between hardcore guys and the guys just coasting along. I know some purple belts that get owned by white belts all the time. I mean I'm not going to pretend like every purple used to beat every blue; it obviously was not that clear cut. But the belts used to mean a lot more relatively speaking. If a guy was a purple belt, it was unfathomable that he would get worked over by guys with six months mat experience in their whole life. Now, it is totally acceptable because the purple belt is "non-competitive" and the white belt is "really athletic."

It is just different now, and the relative quality of the low end is much lower. I mean it makes sense given the growth in popularity, but it's hard to pretend like the quality has not dropped like that.

 

[lechien]

Well, Not sure about white belt tapping purple belt etc..

Of course, back in the days I thought Blue belt were Jedis...and BB were like Yoda.

I just thought omoplata were freaking awesome.

But with time, I got to see so many different things in BJJ that nothing really surprises me nowdays.

I was just young and new in the sport with just a few overseas visitors to gauge my expectations on.

I just see more and more people deluded in BJJ to be honest.

 

[ThatBJJGuy]

do you have link? because that gif does not work for me. or is it supposed to be a picture.

http://twitpic.com/e0o7wr

is that ok?

 

[Uchi Mata]

You're measuring absolute quality, and it is true that has gone up. But that is a pretty meaningless measurement in an art where quality equates to how you stack up against others on the mat.

It's like saying that a 2014 Chevy Cavalier is nicer than a luxury car from the 1920s. Yeah, it is. But at the same time, unless you have a magic time machine back to Gatsby's day, no one is going to think that is a nice car anymore in 2014.

The key is relative quality. And relative quality has gone down overall from what I have seen.

The initial black belts that moved here from Brazil were pretty hardcore to begin with. No average, kind of okay maybe black belt is going to fly to another continent with basically no money to try to somehow make a living teaching how to beat people up. It took balls and confidence. And the other guys traveling around and doing their best as blues and purples had the same attitude.

You even mention competitive purple belt as a rank. When I started, there was no such thing as competitive or non-competitive. You just were, or you weren't. There was not this massive gap between competitive guys and non-competitive guys. Some guys were obviously better than others, but pretty much everyone competed a couple times a year at local stuff minimum. If you said "I don't compete" back then, people thought something was wrong with you.

Nowadays there is a massive gap between hardcore guys and the guys just coasting along. I know some purple belts that get owned by white belts all the time. I mean I'm not going to pretend like every purple used to beat every blue; it obviously was not that clear cut. But the belts used to mean a lot more relatively speaking. If a guy was a purple belt, it was unfathomable that he would get worked over by guys with six months mat experience in their whole life. Now, it is totally acceptable because the purple belt is "non-competitive" and the white belt is "really athletic."

It is just different now, and the relative quality of the low end is much lower. I mean it makes sense given the growth in popularity, but it's hard to pretend like the quality has not dropped like that.

There was certainly less dispersion of skill around the mean in the early days, just because BJJ was a fringe activity that was pretty hard to even train unless you really wanted to. As it got bigger it was inevitable that the variance in skill levels of practitioners would increase, but thankfully the mean skill level also increased. And I think you're off base about relative quality being more important than absolute quality. To extend your analogy, just because all cars were model Ts in the 20s (zero variance in quality) does not in any way make them better in any sense than any modern car, even a low end one. You'd never choose to own the model T in this day and age just because it was comparable to the best cars available in its day, just like most of us would never want to go back and train the really limited, basic BJJ game that was taught at many academies in the late 90s. I think an average practitioner at any belt level today would own an average practitioner of any belt level from 2000, just because the game and training methods have both advanced so much. I think that's an unreserved good, even if there are also some blue belts who are not as good on the mats.

Also, I think your relative quality argument only really applies to the US. I think in Brazil there have been hobbyists for years, again just because the pool was larger and so there was a lot more dispersion around the mean of skill at each level.

 

[ThatBJJGuy]

I guess youre not good unless you train BJJ full time everyday huh

 

[Balto]

I guess youre not good unless you train BJJ full time everyday huh

It has nothing to do with that.

Some guys trained all the time, but most guys didn't. The amount of training time was about the same as it is now. Most guys did it a couple times a week and worked a regular job.

There was a big difference in attitude though. Now you hear guys say things like "I am scared to try takedowns." It's not like we did takedowns all the time when I started, but nobody was scared when we did.

Plus all the colored belt teachers back then were doing it because they were trying to get better and grow the art. Now we have a lot more black belts, but it's still about the same chance of finding a blue belt teaching. Guys doing that are just in it for a check now. Blue belts drive past multiple black belt schools in order to teach a class at a fitness chain franchise because it's an easy way to make a little money.

Like others have said, it just has a far more commerical, hey just come get in shape vibe than it used to have. There is much less focus on actually getting good. It comes with the popularity. And when the bubble bursts (for the past few years I think we have been getting pretty close), it may start to swing back the other direction.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

My opinion of BJJ changed drastically over the years.
Started with wrestling and sambo, long before had the chance to train BJJ.
At first, I loved it and I loved the team feeling it gives to the practitioners.
Later on, I started noticing some things, that rubbed me wrong- my first coach is so far the best BJJ coach I have seen, but he would never allow me to use straight ankle locks, even if I was catching brown belts and later on black belts with them. Also he was very vocal about using strength, even if the top competitors we had in the gym were mostly strength players, some on roids and when I started bringing medals for the gym, I was able to, thanx to "power game".
After I got two national medals, I left it for judo, boxing and mma, just to train it sporadically with friends or when I have more ground game oriented classes in my gym.
Now a days I'm thinking about BJJ more from the point of demographics- it fits white collar workers and older generation. I start losing my speed and I'm thinking more and more about my joints, during throwing practice, so I see my self going back to BJJ in a few years, as a grappling sport which is more merciful on the body and can help you stay in shape.
Brown belt at the moment.

 

[lechien]

http://twitpic.com/e0o7wr

is that ok?

Thanks.

 

[Diablo Ryu**]

I dont like the Gracie family. Thats my only issue.

 

[TalkShowOnMute]

My opinion of BJJ changed drastically over the years.
Started with wrestling and sambo, long before had the chance to train BJJ.
At first, I loved it and I loved the team feeling it gives to the practitioners.
Later on, I started noticing some things, that rubbed me wrong- my first coach is so far the best BJJ coach I have seen, but he would never allow me to use straight ankle locks, even if I was catching brown belts and later on black belts with them. Also he was very vocal about using strength, even if the top competitors we had in the gym were mostly strength players, some on roids and when I started bringing medals for the gym, I was able to, thanx to "power game".
After I got two national medals, I left it for judo, boxing and mma, just to train it sporadically with friends or when I have more ground game oriented classes in my gym.
Now a days I'm thinking about BJJ more from the point of demographics- it fits white collar workers and older generation. I start losing my speed and I'm thinking more and more about my joints, during throwing practice, so I see my self going back to BJJ in a few years, as a grappling sport which is more merciful on the body and can help you stay in shape.
Brown belt at the moment.

I think the problem is that the IBJJF and it's rules have become synonymous with BJJ and it's rules. At least in many schools I have seen, you are forced to roll under IBJJF rules..whether you compete or not.

And to me, training jiu jitsu under IBJJF rules is not training jiu jitsu..it is training a specific subset of jiu jitsu moves that are allowed in particular competitions. It's jiu jitsu with explicit restrictions IMO.

In this way, the lower 3/5 and 4/5ths of the belt spectrum tend to train "Northern-Style" jiu jitsu and ignore much of the lower half of the body.

This is all just and observation and opinion of course. Nothing more.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

I think the problem is that the IBJJF and it's rules have become synonymous with BJJ and it's rules. At least in many schools I have seen, you are forced to roll under IBJJF rules..whether you compete or not.

And to me, training jiu jitsu under IBJJF rules is not training jiu jitsu..it is training a specific subset of jiu jitsu moves that are allowed in particular competitions. It's jiu jitsu with explicit restrictions IMO.

In this way, the lower 3/5 and 4/5ths of the belt spectrum tend to train "Northern-Style" jiu jitsu and ignore much of the lower half of the body.

This is all just and observation and opinion of course. Nothing more.

Well, I started somewhere in year 2000 so that was the trend at the time. Dropped it somewhere in 2008 I guess.
Haven't seen much of a development in the leg lock department. I guess it takes away the importance of the guard, hence not so much to teach from sales view point.
Hmmm, maybe I actually do connect BJJ with business in my head.
As I have said before- wrestling, judo and sambo people don't spend money on gear, while BJJ people can drop thousands in 1 year, on stuff, that are not important.

 

[TalkShowOnMute]

Well, I started somewhere in year 2000 so that was the trend at the time. Dropped it somewhere in 2008 I guess.
Haven't seen much of a development in the leg lock department. I guess it takes away the importance of the guard, hence not so much to teach from sales view point.
Hmmm, maybe I actually do connect BJJ with business in my head.
As I have said before- wrestling, judo and sambo people don't spend money on gear, while BJJ people can drop thousands in 1 year, on stuff, that are not important.

Bro, you need the latest Norwegian Yak skin gi. It makes your berimbolo at least ..I dunno...4% better.

 

[ijustwannasurf]

The leg lock stigma has definitely lightened up, in my view. I was lucky to have coaches that encouraged me to work on my footlock, even if it was outside the curriculum. I experienced a little Brazilian hate (edit- Barra playboy hate), but that has changed over the years.

 

[TalkShowOnMute]

The leg lock stigma has definitely lightened up, in my view. I was lucky to have coaches that encouraged me to work on my footlock, even if it was outside the curriculum. I experienced a little Brazilian hate (edit- Barra playboy hate), but that has changed over the years.

Do you find that most school tend to use IBJJF rulesets?

For me, the best part is that I do not watch grappling tournaments...the occasional Metamoris or ADCC...or a super-hyped gi match here or there.

So even though I've trained since 2007 I honestly have very little knowledge of the ruleset as it pertains to each belt level and of how BJJ is scored.

I only know I've done something wrong when I catch something or start working on something and someone says "You can't do that at blue." Doh!