Berimbolo - How effective is it ?

[Shemhazai]

It is a poor comparison. Unlike the rubber guard the berimbolo has been proven to be effective at the highest levels of BJJ.

This. Also, it relies on solid open guard fundamentals, and isn't really that attribute-based

 

[Thai Otoshi]

Why hasn't it made the transition to MMA? Serious question.

Speaking from the perspective of a Thai boxer, it would be super easy to teep/stomp to the body, with possible DQ by accidentally hitting the head or groin. Plus, as soon as they turn over, switch roundhouse to kick their legs away.

PRIDE rules = fatality.

 

[kintana]

I just tried bermibolo for the first time yesterday during class. It was actually almost identical to mendes vs (clark) gracie fight in metamoris 3.

I am a big guy most people see me as a pass and smash guy. But I had good fun with bermibolo and I can see why it works.

Still not really my cup of tea.

 

[Shemhazai]

Speaking from the perspective of a Thai boxer, it would be super easy to teep/stomp to the body, with possible DQ by accidentally hitting the head or groin. Plus, as soon as they turn over, switch roundhouse to kick their legs away.

PRIDE rules = fatality.

That sounds entirely unfeasible.

 

[Thai Otoshi]

That sounds entirely unfeasible.

How?

Edit: No gi, someone determined to stand, 0 reason to engage in the grappling...

At the very least, you'll be the victim of some GnP.

 

[BJJArsenal]

How?

Edit: No gi, someone determined to stand, 0 reason to engage in the grappling...

At the very least, you'll be the victim of some GnP.

the whole point of the DLR guard is distance control and to minimise strike damage, I dare you to try and throw a punch against someone with a good DLR, even in no-gi without having your base compromised

how are you seriously going to try and stomp someone's body when your one standing leg is being pushed down the ground hard?

 

[Uchi Mata]

For what it's worth, berimbolo is one of the moves I like most against wrestlers because it's a form of attack they don't have especially good instincts about defending. Most sweeps are very hard to pull off on wrestlers because they tend to have great hips and bases, but there's really no equivalent to inverting to the back in wrestling and I definitely get more defensive hesitation when I start working the berimbolo than when I work, say, a situp sweep from one leg X.

 

[Drew Foster]

Why hasn't it made the transition to MMA? Serious question. I'm a judoka/wrestler whose experience of BJJ is by teaching takedowns at a BJJ club, and it doesn't seem to be that common at that club. Is it a gi/no-gi thing?

My thought from watching you-tube videos of it is that it leaves you too exposed to a sprawl/scramble for MMA, but from the quotes above I'm guessing that might just be my prejudices.

I think we will see it in MMA every now and again, and Marcin Held had come close to doing it already. it's a slightly different position without the gi. Since you aren't able to grab the belt or in the pants, in nogi it's much more common to see it as a sweep or scramble up to the top. I don't think I've ever seen people hang out upside down mid 'bolo in nogi and fight to get onto the back.

That said, people said there wouldn't be deep half in MMA, and people have used it. You just can't hang out there. I would imagine the 'bolo would be the same situation. I don't think you'll see anyone hanging out inverted in MMA anytime soon.

 

[Thai Otoshi]

the whole point of the DLR guard is distance control and to minimise strike damage, I dare you to try and throw a punch against someone with a good DLR, even in no-gi without having your base compromised

how are you seriously going to try and stomp someone's body when your one standing leg is being pushed down the ground hard?

I'll concede for now, because for the life of me, I can't find any footage of ANYONE trying it in MMA.

 

[BJJArsenal]

I'll concede for now, because for the life of me, I can't find any footage of ANYONE trying it in MMA.

That's because no one's tried it, partly because of the way MMA fighters train, and partly because most of the grapplers who are actually very capable at pulling it off are more capable at attacking other techniques.

 

[Leify]

please show me how you sprawl out of a berimbolo. i'm very curious.

Step 1: Move your leg back and phase through your opponent's DLR hook and hand.
Step 2: Sprawl.

You are a ghost, right?

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

in case anyone is interested:

http://www.miyaobrothers.com/

4 disc set on sale fore 97$ (no i dont work for bb secrets)

 

[Glokta]

My issue with it is that it takes *alot* of reps to use effectively so that from a hobby blue/purple pov the rest of the guys game is limited.

 

[dokomoy]

My issue with it is that it takes *alot* of reps to use effectively so that from a hobby blue/purple pov the rest of the guys game is limited.

That's basically true of every technique.

Also, unlike some people in this thread I don't think berimbolo is good for nogi/mma. It's much harder to make your opponent fall(but not impossible) without the gi, and without a belt/pants to grab you can't maintain the position. It was mentioned that you can turn it into a scramble, but on the whole I think it's just not a very strong technique without the gi(this is different than say deep half which was mentioned earlier, deep half has shown itself to be as good/better than regular half in MMA and it doesn't lose nearly as much when you take off the gi).

 

[Drew Foster]

That's basically true of every technique.

Also, unlike some people in this thread I don't think berimbolo is good for nogi/mma. It's much harder to make your opponent fall(but not impossible) without the gi, and without a belt/pants to grab you can't maintain the position. It was mentioned that you can turn it into a scramble, but on the whole I think it's just not a very strong technique without the gi(this is different than say deep half which was mentioned earlier, deep half has shown itself to be as good/better than regular half in MMA and it doesn't lose nearly as much when you take off the gi).

I'm not saying it's good for mma, but I do think we will see it every now and then.

 

[dokomoy]

I'm not saying it's good for mma, but I do think we will see it every now and then.

Fair enough

 

[Uchi Mata]

My issue with it is that it takes *alot* of reps to use effectively so that from a hobby blue/purple pov the rest of the guys game is limited.

That's a half truth, and the important half is missing which is that every good competitor's competition game is limited. The Bishops from Bishop BJJ talked a lot about this on Open Mat Radio (good interview, btw); their insight from doing analysis of many high level matches was that the best competitors have a set game plan which they are extremely expert at implementing. The technical range they use in their matches is extremely limited, because you can only be really really good at so many things. If you want to win competitions and that's why you do BJJ, concentrating on a small subset of moves like berimbolo is the best and fastest way to achieve that goal. If you're going to class as essentially all hobbyists do you'll get a decently well rounded game from that, using your drilling time to focus on the core of your competition game is exactly what you should do.

Basically you can't be great at everything and being really good at the berimbolo is no better or worse than having a mean closed guard from a BJJ competitive standpoint.

 

[German Supplex]

If it's MMA and someone is transitioning to the back, can't the person just move/step/run forward a bit and prevent the person on the ground from taking their back?

 

[georgejjr]

That's because no one's tried it, partly because of the way MMA fighters train, and partly because most of the grapplers who are actually very capable at pulling it off are more capable at attacking other techniques.

Which leads to the next question (again, from someone who only knows the berimbolo from videos); given the number of excellent BJJ competitors who also do MMA, you'd expect them to be eager to try in MMA a technique which, from what I've read in this thread, is so successful in BJJ that the rules had to be changed to discourage it.

That they haven't been trying it in the cage suggests they haven't had success with it in MMA training. Your point that they're capable of other techniques (and so presumably using them) suggests those other techniques are more useful for MMA; what is it about the berimbolo that diminishes it from extremely effective in BJJ to marginally effective in MMA?

Is the ability to grip pants (as opposed to cup/grabbing the leg) that important in the technique?

Ironically enough, this thread has interested me in the technique; next time I'm teaching (obviously throws/takedowns not groundwork) at the BJJ club I'll ask the instructor for a bit of a lesson in it.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Which leads to the next question (again, from someone who only knows the berimbolo from videos); given the number of excellent BJJ competitors who also do MMA, you'd expect them to be eager to try in MMA a technique which, from what I've read in this thread, is so successful in BJJ that the rules had to be changed to discourage it.

That they haven't been trying it in the cage suggests they haven't had success with it in MMA training. Your point that they're capable of other techniques (and so presumably using them) suggests those other techniques are more useful for MMA; what is it about the berimbolo that diminishes it from extremely effective in BJJ to marginally effective in MMA?

Is the ability to grip pants (as opposed to cup/grabbing the leg) that important in the technique?

Ironically enough, this thread has interested me in the technique; next time I'm teaching (obviously throws/takedowns not groundwork) at the BJJ club I'll ask the instructor for a bit of a lesson in it.

It relies entirely on gi grips. You can invert off of DLR without the gi, but it's not really a berimbolo as your ability to take the back from there (or even get to a leg drag) is almost non-existent. It's just not tight enough without the gi.

Now, you can knock a guy on his hip in no gi from DLR, and you can invert to defend the pass, but knocking the guy on his hip and then inverting to try and take the back is not really feasible IMO.