Official Women's MMA Discussion Thread #9
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A little late for this reply but anyways
Am a bit of a Nakai fan and very interested in this match but I think it's gonna be a hard fight for her. First I think regardless Meisha isn't really getting another title shot for long long time I hope not at least, there are a lot of other opponent and meisha doesn't really have anything for ronda except for surviving. About this match unfortunately Rin will still have to worry about getting boxed off, Meisha is still taller with longer reach so is pretty much everyone else given Rin is the shortest in the division. The easiest way for Meisha to fight is using wrestling in reverse and just out strike Rin, Meisha isn't good striker by any means but Rin combined with her short reach has like the worst striking I have seen. Her ground game is legit but even on the ground am not confident Nakai has an edge there either, despite out matched by Ronda Meisha is still one of the best wrestlers in 135 maybe the 2nd best after Mcmann. Strength wise maybe Nakai will have an edge but I don't see her sub Meisha given Ronda couldn't even do it in 3 rounds and Ronda is stronger than Rin I think and much more skilled grappling. Meisha can also take the initiative and take Rin down and I don't know how Rin is on the bottom. One reason it's hard for some to consider Meisha as a top fighter is that no matter who she faces it always seem to be a close match like sometimes she suppose to run through her opponent but in the end still ends up with bare win, she is pretty weird in this sense.
Rin can win however, basically by taking Meisha down and controlling her there/sub attempts, if she does pull off a win I think it will be a very close 29-28 win for her and I will be very impressed. I will be rooting for her.
the WSOF WMMA fights yesterday were borderline awful 
(((
what the reason of having tied a couple of top fighters if u can't build a division?
I prefer if they just sign inexperienced WMMA up-and-comers to show in the prelims.
Since the Fujii fights I realized that JAG isn't that exciting as a fighter, and has a problem with eye poking.
Really I hope she'll be in UFC very soon.
(((what the reason of having tied a couple of top fighters if u can't build a division?
I prefer if they just sign inexperienced WMMA up-and-comers to show in the prelims.
Since the Fujii fights I realized that JAG isn't that exciting as a fighter, and has a problem with eye poking.
Really I hope she'll be in UFC very soon.
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Judging by the comments, i'm glad I didn't stay up to watch them. Lets hope JAG can get her last fight out of the way by the time TUF comes to an end.
Agreed.
When I c one of the fighters using that posture I would advice immediately her to watch out for eye pokes, and if she pokes I would IMMEDIATELY take a point from her, cauz I warned her in the beginning.
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Hey, I was having a discussion with BigMuffler about which division was the biggest (the amount of fighters at their natural weight class), and he said you have a list saying that 125 has the most fighters.
If so, how did you compile that list? Are they all "true" 125ers or did you just list everyone that fought at 125 at some point?
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If you mean the one in the bottom, right-hand corner, she is getting stitches removed from below her right eye.
I have a thread of which I list and do a moderate ranking of fighters. I keep track of everybody fighting, that I can, within the past 18 to 24 months. I list them by the weight class they tend to fight in. Sometimes fighters jump around in weight classes so I try and list them as best I can, often make notes after fights to help explain what they are doing, and I leave notes about their, nominal, plans to move to different weight classes.
In some cases I list by as "May" move or others as "Moving" to try and distinguish a possible move. I base this on a desire to try a new weight class out by someone who hasn't fought there before, hence "May" and "Moving" by referring to a fighter taking a contract to fight at that weight or even having fought there before and having new fights lined up at that weight class.
Here is the thread.
Women's MMA List by Weight Class
I don't really like the term natural weight class as it tries to describe an ideal that is its malleable. People can alter their bodies within reason to fight at different weight classes, try and get advantages, etc., by cutting weight. At a certain point you can be pointing out someone who cuts 20lbs and say 135lbs is their "natural weight class*" with a straight face.
(*To try and use that term properly I feel it would need to be defined in an unambiguous fashion where there is no weight cutting taking place. Obviously my opinion. Edit: Or, alternatively if weight cutting did take place, you simply would look at their weight right before they fight, the weight they actually fight at, not the weigh-in, weight. Not that anyone is going to do that.)
I tend to prefer where people fight effectively against the level of competition with in their level of capabilities and ability to reach - fight each other.
I'll always be quick to point out that I do think x, y, and z fighter could probably fight comfortably at a different weight class if they are given a good reason to do so, a decent contract and availability to get the fight(s).
I added a good bit more information on that thread in the heavies where the topic came up:
http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/showthread.php?p=96285597&posted=1#post96285597
Adding this to both places:
Number of fights taken place, last 9 weeks.
Lightweight - 4
Featherweight - 4
Bantamweight - 24
Flyweight - 48
Strawweight - 14
Atomweight - 9
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I didn't dislike the women's fights last night. Aguilar did her job and beat the stuffing out of her opponent. She couldn't get the finish but no one else has finished her either.
Ashlee Evans-Smith, when she went for a strong takedown, when she need it, she did so, and finished her opponent.
The Evans-Smith fight wasn't a wonderful fight but it wasn't, to me, awful. A little below mediocre. Allen wasn't going to charge in on Evans-Smith and allow for an easy takedown. Allen fought that point-style fight she needed to in order to try and get the win. Evans-Smith, obviously, needs to continue to improve her standup and or be willing to try and go for strong takedowns earlier in the fight.
But this was Evans-Smith's debut at bantamweight. Would she have the cardio to deal with multiple failed takedowns? Was the cut hard on her? I heard she was looking very gaunt at the weigh ins by someone who was there. Maybe bantamweight is a cut too far for Evans-Smith or she is still working out the kinks.
I don't know.
Would I have liked more out of those fights? Sure. Yet I am happy enough with what I saw. Aguilar being dominant and Evans-Smith a work in progress at 3-0 over an average, as far as I can tell, opponent.
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Tonya Evinger: I will fight anybody
by admin on June 21, 2014 at 11:40 am
One of the worlds best female Bantamweight fighters is Tonya “Triple Threat” Evinger. She is out spoken, highly talented and currently ranked among the Top 15 in the world. Tonya is also currently on a 4 fight win streak and has faced some of the worlds most recognized fighters, “So why isn’t she in the big show?
MMA Jam: Is the UFC your ultimate goal?
Evinger: Not really but its what everyone else thinks is where I need to be to “have made it”. I just want a good contract w a good promotion that appreciates me for my skills..I just wanna fight more than once a yr, that’s success to me and that’s why I do this.
Click below for more:
http://mmajam.ca/tonya-evinger-will-fight-anybody/
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It's time! For Chocolate.
Chayane Mendes (1-3-0) BR vs. Mar
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^^ I would tend to agree with your thoughts about weight classes, although I would think there is one weight where most fighters would feel the most comfortable at (which can change with age), as far as food intake etc goes.
As far as BigMufflers argument goes (that most women are more naturally suited for 125), I'm not sure sheer numbers prove that. First off, most of the fighters on either list have 1 or 2 fights, and fighters that are just starting out could just as easily just be trying it out, getting experience, and planning to drop a weight class in the future, or just took the fight at that weight class because it was available. Also, many fighters that go 1 or 2 fights stop there and never fight again. Not really a good foundation for a sample size.
At any rate, if 125 is/will be the biggest/deepest, I don't see why it's bad that the two neighboring classes are leeching talent from it now. It makes the other divisions stronger, and I don't think it puts those girls at that much of a disadvantage, and in the future girls could start anew in 125 if wmma keeps being successful.
As far as BigMufflers argument goes (that most women are more naturally suited for 125), I'm not sure sheer numbers prove that. First off, most of the fighters on either list have 1 or 2 fights, and fighters that are just starting out could just as easily just be trying it out, getting experience, and planning to drop a weight class in the future, or just took the fight at that weight class because it was available. Also, many fighters that go 1 or 2 fights stop there and never fight again. Not really a good foundation for a sample size.
At any rate, if 125 is/will be the biggest/deepest, I don't see why it's bad that the two neighboring classes are leeching talent from it now. It makes the other divisions stronger, and I don't think it puts those girls at that much of a disadvantage, and in the future girls could start anew in 125 if wmma keeps being successful.
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When it comes to fighting things can change for all kinds of reasons, therefore, I tend to look at it as an issue of what are they doing right now? What has been the recent past, trends, etc..
Objectively there are fewer women in the lower weight classes in Japan then there used to be because there has been a down turn in interest in MMA in general in MMA and Women's MMA in particular there. This is in spite of there being more women at the lower weight classes in totality now.
I don't know the specifics about BigMufflers' position. I have seen my information being used to describe, correctly, that there are more fighters at 125 and 135 and that many 125ers have moved due to being offered lucrative offers to fight at 115 and 135.
As far as making money and getting recognition goes I can't blame them either. But many would be happy not having to cut that extra weight or have to compete with larger opponents either.
As for numbers. You can also look at 135 and 115 and see plenty of fighters who have only 1-2 fights as well. People can add muscle or cut fat and fight elsewhere. I will point out that if you fight closer to your walk around weight it is somewhat more likely you will be able to fight more often as it doesn't take as much out of you to get to your weight in weight.
This is partly why, in my opinion, that there are so many Brazilians fighting regularly.
I don't mind people looking for opportunities but I do get concerned about excessive weight cutting, water weight cutting in particular. I don't want people getting sick due to trying too hard. Fights being cancelled. Jokes made at the women's divisions due to too many not making weight.
And there can be issues of size. Claudia Gadelha walks around at 141lbs to 142lbs. She cuts water weight from 135lbs to 115lbs for her one strawweight fight (to date). She was huge in comparison to her opponent, Ayaka Hamasaki.
Gadelha isn't doing TUF 20 due to her weight issue.
Overall I would prefer people being able to fight at weights that actually make sense for them and that they would prefer but people, including myself, don't always get what we want.
8)
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That was my point. I wasn't specifically talking about 125. It's just hard to say which class is really the biggest. Lot of fighters at 135 that had one or two fights probably didn't cut weight (or very little), and the same goes for 125 and 115.
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Btw, what's the word on Jessica Aguillar coming to the UFC?
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My position is simply that based on the numbers, it 'appears' at the moment that more female fighters are likely to consider 125 their preferred weight class, followed by 135 and then 115.
The opposite of that would be girls like Gaff, Sexton, and Roxy who almost certainly should be at 125 these days, fighting at a higher weight and getting annihilated, or someone like Andrade who might be a top fighter at 125 struggling to stay relevant in a division with physical beasts like Carmouche let alone R3.
That's what I was thinking your point was but I didn't want to make assumptions.
Yep. Weirdly enough Andrade had a better record at bantamweight (had a fight at catchweight/featherweight too) than at flyweight. The reason was that Brazil had better flyweights than bantamweights so it was easier for Andrade to get wins/experience beating people at bantamweight.
That is no longer the case. The level of talent at bantamweight versus flyweight is pretty similar now. With the last several flyweights who came down to strawweight helped that happen, like: Kalindra Carvalho Faria, Kinberly Tanaka Novaes, and Aline Sattelmayer. Aside from previous defections, of sorts, like Juliana Lima and Claudia Gadelha.
There are a few others but they have tended to fight more often, and longer, at strawweight. It is pretty obvious that they either belong at strawweight or lower, down at atomweight.
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Aguilar has two more fight with WSOF. Aguilar says she will consider her options after her contract is up. She is looking at the bottom line as much as the kinds of opponents that she can face, based on some of her previous comments.
I am guessing she wants bargaining power.
Objectively there are more people fighting at 125 then 135 or 115. That doesn't mean it used to be that way, at one point that was different, and in the future that might change, but for much of the past several years the above dynamic has been as seen above. There was a brief period, for 3-4 months, when there was essential parity between 135 and 115. When it was uncertain whether the UFC was really going to go into women's mma after buying out Strikeforce.
It was crazy to think that there were only around 107 bantamweights active, according to my metrics. And upwards of nine fighters talking about dropping or adding weight to move to another weight class.
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I'm trying to figure out if any of these fighters, for Throw Down Fights, are pros, or ammies. (After watching a bit more I am pretty sure these are ammies, 3 minute rounds. Gloves look a little big too. Skill sets need development, etc..)
I've started watching one video but don't recall anyone saying pro or ammy. There was some talking over the announcer during the time you'd normally hear that information. Weight class too. Not much online yet either, from searching, but I just started.
Women’s Boxing/MMA
1.) Katy ‘BamBam’ Horlick: 3-0-0 (inclusive of MMA bouts)
2.) Catherine ‘Bomber’ Brooks: 1-1-0 (Women’s MMA Champion)
3.) Gemma Jacques: 0-1-0
4.) Michelle McKenzie: 0-1-0
5.) Gemma Thomas: 0-1-0
http://throwdownfightnights.wordpress.com/fighters/
Some fights - I'm pretty sure they are ammies.
The only real media, outside themselves, seems to be aimed at the amateur level in the UK.
http://cageamateursuk.com/Throw-Down-Fight-Night-II.php
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Kristin Murphey talks a bit about her win over Allana Jones on her Facebook page.
I cut and pasted it into spoilers for people interested. She makes a story of it. Turns out the fight was set for 135lbs but things changed ...
I walked away with the W last night in my first pro MMA fight and for that I don't even have the words to describe. It was a dr.'s stoppage between the 2nd and 3rd rounds. I got rocked a bit initially and it was a war for 2 more rounds, but I adjusted and listened to my coaches. Last night was a test of all the hard work I have put in over the last several months. Initially my fight was supposed to be at 135 but due to car troubles, my opponent could not get to Baltimore in time to cut weight so we met at 145 but she also missed by another 5 lbs.
Last night I won against an opponent that was 15 lbs heavier and had 6 pro fights, despite seeing areas where I need to improve, I am very satisfied for what I did against a bigger and more experienced opponent.
I can not thank my coaches Chad Malone and Rafferty Kelly enough. The work they have put in to help get me here is more than I could have asked for. You guys are like part of my brain and know just what to say to me, in and out of the cage. Don Ngo your workouts were the difference in her being gassed and me never doubting I was stronger and could have gone 3 more rounds.
To my boyfriend Christopher R. Schmidt, thank you for everything you do everyday, you are what helps me get through. Thank you to all my training partners, this is a team sport every minute up until I step into the cage and you made me ready for last night. Jeremy Lafreniere thank you for making it happen, I never thought it would go this far. To all my friends who came out to the fight, it was amazing to hear you erupt as I walked to the cage.
Thank you for coming and showing your support, it makes it so much more worth it! Thank you everyone that has supported from near and far, you are amazing.
https://www.facebook.com/mmakirstin
Congrats on a big win. I hope to find that fight. 8)
Last night I won against an opponent that was 15 lbs heavier and had 6 pro fights, despite seeing areas where I need to improve, I am very satisfied for what I did against a bigger and more experienced opponent.
I can not thank my coaches Chad Malone and Rafferty Kelly enough. The work they have put in to help get me here is more than I could have asked for. You guys are like part of my brain and know just what to say to me, in and out of the cage. Don Ngo your workouts were the difference in her being gassed and me never doubting I was stronger and could have gone 3 more rounds.
To my boyfriend Christopher R. Schmidt, thank you for everything you do everyday, you are what helps me get through. Thank you to all my training partners, this is a team sport every minute up until I step into the cage and you made me ready for last night. Jeremy Lafreniere thank you for making it happen, I never thought it would go this far. To all my friends who came out to the fight, it was amazing to hear you erupt as I walked to the cage.
Thank you for coming and showing your support, it makes it so much more worth it! Thank you everyone that has supported from near and far, you are amazing.
https://www.facebook.com/mmakirstin
Congrats on a big win. I hope to find that fight. 8)
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Translated: I am heading to UFC, my goal is to be UFC champion, and undisputed #1 in the world, but it would be silly to outright say that as long as my checks are cut by someone else.Thirdpres said:
I do feel Jag greatly fears she will be forgotten with the excitement of TUF 20 and the UFC 115 divsion starting off. That is why she is always proclaiming herself #1 and telling anyone that will listen. Part of that is ego, but most of it is fear of being forgotten and ignored in WSOF. But that was inevitable when she signed. Jag never imagined UFC starting a 115 divsion after she signed with WSOF.
I think it is going to be a rough second half of the year for Jag, and her ego, as wmma fans drool over JoJo, Torres, Esparza, Rose, Herrig, Vanzant, Gadelha, Kish, and eventually Inoue. While she toils away in obscurity in WSOF, fighting much lesser opponents. Well, two more fights and then she gets to prove she is the best strawweight in the world and back up all her talk. 2015 is going to be crazy.
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Jag and every fighter from 105-125 knew about the possibility of a UFC W115 division, Michelle Ould was one of the first to publicly state the UFC strawweight rumor last summer.
Jag had stated since there wasn't anything official, she couldn't wait on the UFC. Jag sat on the sidelines for 10 months (injury free) in between her fights with Megumi (Bellator 69) & Patricia Vidonic (Bellator 94), and sat for another 7 months before the Megumi rematch.
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I meant to convey right after she signed. Literally right after. She signed with WSOF and a week later UFC announced the 115 division and Invicta signings.
I think everyone assumed maybe a 115 division in 2015 or 2016. When Dana White was asked about it(possibly due to what Ould said) during last summer, he said UFC had no interest in doing a second division anytime soon. During the fall of last year, Shannon Knapp said there was no truth in UFC doing a 115 division. Then a couple of months later, UFC bought Invicta's 115 division. I don't think anyone saw that coming.
Yeah, jag got a much better offer from WSOF than Invicta, so she couldn't wait on vague rumors that UFC would start 115 division soon. Some people just have unlucky timing.
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