Serious Movie Discussion XXXVII

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Yeah, it was great.

I actually finished The Last of Us yesterday. What an outstanding game on so many levels. 10/10.

It took me a while to get into, but the last 30% or so was great.

I preferred Uncharted as far as Naughty Dog goes, and preferred The Walking Dead s1 as far as zombie games go...but those might be my two favorite games ever.
 
As far as bullit trashing, TD... Not surprised. I'll take the guys views on movies all day, but shows? Idk about that. The only thing similar between Hannibal and TD is the fact that there are murders and cops involved. Very different shows going for very different themes

You guys know I'm never a contrarian just for the sake of it, I never try to be "cool" by not liking the popular stuff, but I've found, with TV more than movies, my taste is almost never in line with the majority. True Detective is just the latest popular and critically acclaimed show to miss me by a mile.

He's watched something completely different.

I didn't watch something different. I wanted to watch something different than what I was stuck watching, which IMO was disappointingly unoriginal and hackneyed.

The murders are simply one aspect of a conversation Pizzolatto is having with the audience about men and women, and how we (incorrectly) think that the thought processes that lead to such murders are so distant from the things happening in our homes (Marty's reaction to his daughter sleeping with multiple males in a car).

This is never followed through on, though. If it's about relationships and "things happening in our homes," what happened in the home of the Yellow King? What were his relationships like? We never actually understand what is happening or what led to it, and more to the point, neither do the characters. I won't deny, I really liked the dialogue where McConaughey complains about how they didn't get everybody involved and Woody responds, "And we ain't gonna get 'em all, that ain't what kind of world it is, but we got ours."

I like the idea of a finite character-world where not every last thread will be tied together to make a dramatically perfect story, but at the same time, I felt cheated by how little I did get dramatically speaking. It's one thing to try to go a different route from the standard hour-long police procedural where every last loose end gets tied up before the end credits roll, but after eight episodes and however many diegetic years during which time McConaughey devoted his life to putting that puzzle together, I wanted a hell of a lot more than what I got.

If that's more me bitching than it is me identifying crucial flaws in the overall conceptual edifice, I'll accept that, but I think it's a valid criticism of elements which, if handled better, could've elevated the series rather than weigh it down.

Also, all the stuff about how McConaughey is a walking Heidegger ignores its purpose - organic character arc, and even in terms of veracity, is far more rooted in research than the pop psychology sessions in Hannibal (I've only seen Season 1 though). Screw that even because, you know, fuck veracity; everything Cohle says (especially the "time is a flat circle" speech) ties in perfectly with how the story plays out.

Realism isn't my primary concern. It's part of the problem with the way McConaughey's character was written, the way it felt so abstract and not grounded in the concrete situations in which his character was enveloped, but realism is not a prerequisite to great storytelling. In fact, I find the hyperbolic nature of Hannibal to be its greatest strength.

I think there's a point about Kubrick paradigmatically explicated in this surprisingly solid internet write-up that will prove equally relevant for a critical context in which to assess Hannibal.

Kubrick once told Jack Nicholson, "We're not interested in photographing the reality. We're interested in photographing the photograph of the reality."[2] Stanley Kubrick's films are not fictions but psychic documentaries. Suspending our disbelief
 
I'll admit the possibility of being in the first viewing afterglow, but I'll also stand by my initial assessment until, with the passage of some time, I revisit both for second viewings.

i'm surprised you liked it that much. doesn't seem your style, even if you have a boner for that true blood guy.

it wasn't bad, but it came off like a poor man's Magnolia and i got kind of bored midway through.

You want the real best of 2012, besides Looper, watch Mud.


PS: you beat up about Bacall?
 
I just liked the tension while they were going through the b wing.

Tension is the one thing that always works for me in horror.

I'm on a zombie kick. Just played The Last of Us, just watched WWZ, waiting for The Walking Dead game to come out with the last episode before I give my life to that...

I think I might try the tv show

the ending in WWZ is horrible, and I'm not talking about the hospital scene. It just ends so abruptly and he goes back to his family like it's all better now.


The montage at the end showed so many cool storylines that they should have included.


I watched the first episode of Sherlock, and loved it. I think I might marathon it
 
i'm surprised you liked it that much. doesn't seem your style, even if you have a boner for that true blood guy.

it wasn't bad, but it came off like a poor man's Magnolia and i got kind of bored midway through.

I honestly didn't expect to like it much, certainly nowhere near as much as I did. I just thought they pulled it off extremely well, particularly on the stylistic level.

You want the real best of 2012, besides Looper, watch Mud.

I don't know if more McConaughey is the answer, but I'll eventually get to that one.

PS: you beat up about Bacall?

She was never one of my favorites, but it's always sad to see a vestige of the classic era go.

I watched the first episode of Sherlock, and loved it. I think I might marathon it

Never watched that, but Elementary is one of my new go-to shows. Jonny Lee Miller will forever be Sherlock Holmes for me.
 
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Man, BBC's Sherlock puts normal detective tv to shame in terms of writing and cinematography. Cumberpatch and Freeman have great chemistry. I'm not trying to watch fucking Lucy Liu.


Also each episode is an hour an a half so far.
 
This is never followed through on, though. If it's about relationships and "things happening in our homes," what happened in the home of the Yellow King? What were his relationships like? We never actually understand what is happening or what led to it, and more to the point, neither do the characters.

I like the idea of a finite character-world where not every last thread will be tied together to make a dramatically perfect story, but at the same time, I felt cheated by how little I did get dramatically speaking.

I won't deny, I really liked the dialogue where McConaughey complains about how they didn't get everybody involved and Woody responds, "And we ain't gonna get 'em all, that ain't what kind of world it is, but we got ours."

I hope you read all that's coming up. Maybe it will clear up some of this.

To begin, I'm not sure if you remember this bit:

"It's like in this universe, we process time linearly forward but outside of our space-time, from what would be a fourth-dimensional perspective, time wouldn't exist, and from that vantage, could we attain it we'd see our space-time would look flattened, like a single sculpture with matter in a superposition of every place it ever occupied, our sentience just cycling through our lives like carts on a track. See, everything outside our dimension that's eternity, eternity looking down on us. Now, to us, it's a sphere, but to them it's a circle."

This was the little metaphysical soliloquy that told us what the show was about. It outlines the truth of our perceptions as audience members, no, fourth-dimensional audience members, looking in (at story). As an audience staring at our LEDs at a visual story, we have numerous luxuries. We can see Cohle and Hart in 2014, in 1995, in 2001. Given our fourth-dimensional vantage point, we can see the threads that connect one character to the next, one theme to a set of characters. Hence, it is natural for us to hypothesise, theorise, to try to find answers, to connect the dots. But, as fourth dimensional beings, to us "it's a circle". It isn't as multi-faceted as a sphere. It only exists so we can make broader connections, not connections that tell us about the yellow king specifically, but about men like the yellow king, men who, whether they are within the frame or without, constantly affect the circumstances of women and men.

This doesn't mean it's about men like you and me, necessarily. It's about men like Maggie's father, who metaphorically represents these men by running the same old line about how things were better in his day, and affecting others by these actions and words. It's about Hart, who looks at a set of dolls in compromising positions in his daughter's bedroom and makes assumptions about her innocence, when it's wholly normal for little girls to see these dolls sexually even at that age. She isn't fucked up then. Maggie says, "Girls always know earlier. They have to." Hart doesn't see it. Note how the dolls are shot from his point of view. Without knowing it, his male gaze affects his daughters, and one of them does end up messed up as a result. "My sin was inattention." Such beautiful, genuine character arc, this realisation in 2014. It's about men like Rustin Cohle, who loses his daughter, and as a result can no longer make genuine connections with women. It's about men like The Yellow King whose influence extends decades later in the psyche of an old black woman who still feverishly remembers Carcosa.

All these things go on simultaneously within this story. Loss giving way to poor connection, poor connections giving way to shaky partnerships, shaky partnerships giving way to tunnel views of female sexuality. All of these pervade the lives of our characters. It's not necessary for us, as fourth dimensional viewers, to understand the specific thought processes of The Yellow King, but to understand it's place in the larger story.

So when Cohle is near death, he reaches out into this fourth dimensional space, and gets a sense of the view that we have as a fourth-dimensional viewer. He feels his own existence within the larger story. All this time he's needed to find out the details (his crazy John Nash room) but once out there, even for the short time that he was, he sees only what we've seen. That The Yellow King is simply part of this larger story. That as a character within his story on earth, not only can he not see the threads that we can, but he can't even see the rest of the members of the cult, because he is bound by the realities of being someone on earth, like you and me when we read about a captured serial killer and worry about whether he has influenced/affected/killed others.

And this is when Marty Hart rams it home: "We got ours." They now understand the magnitude of their achievement. They had to project out into a place beyond, our fourth-dimensional space to be able to see how important their actions were, that they were part of this:

"It's just one story."

About light versus dark. It took their transcending to this other world, even if only momentarily, for them to understand that they wiped out a truly evil being, and that light had replaced it, however small the difference might appear in the night sky. And that this story is the larger story of our existence. We began as creatures, no morals, pure survival. This gave way to terrible things like genocide and human sacrifice and female infanticide, but as sentient beings, we developed conscience, which in turn gave way to a larger sense of civic responsibility, of humanity. And it is this larger conscience, this humanity alone, that can overcome true evil, which is exactly what Cohle and Marty do in killing The Yellow King. In spite of their flaws, the way they treat their women, even other men, their consciences grew to the point of being greater than the evil they had to overcome.

It's one thing to try to go a different route from the standard hour-long police procedural where every last loose end gets tied up before the end credits roll, but after eight episodes and however many diegetic years during which time McConaughey devoted his life to putting that puzzle together, I wanted a hell of a lot more than what I got.

If that's more me bitching than it is me identifying crucial flaws in the overall conceptual edifice, I'll accept that, but I think it's a valid criticism of elements which, if handled better, could've elevated the series rather than weigh it down.

I understand. Dramatically, the cause and effect nature of the case didn't quite make you hard. It's quite difficult to go from not actually enjoying the drama to taking the philosophies seriously in the larger context. This actually makes a lot more sense to me now that I've read your comments on what you like about the story dynamics of Hannibal. It also explains a lot about why you don't like The Wire. This stuff just doesn't move like Hannibal or True Blood.

Realism isn't my primary concern.

Neither is it mine, hence my "fuck veracity" statement. It should never matter that something on screen is true to life, it should simply matter that it is true to character in the world created. I only defended the realism in the context of your Wiki-existentialism critique.
 
Man, BBC's Sherlock puts normal detective tv to shame in terms of writing and cinematography. Cumberpatch and Freeman have great chemistry. I'm not trying to watch fucking Lucy Liu.


Also each episode is an hour an a half so far.

One of my favorite shows out there. Benedict Cumberbatch kills it as Holmes. RDJ doesn't even come close to him.

With that being said, I find Martin Freeman even more impressive, especially later on.

The show gets better and better, mixes a lot of great elements of most modern TV shows while probably being more fun to watch than any of them.
 
It took 4 times as long to watch it than a regular movie, so maybe it will take me 4 times as long to digest it than a regular masterpiece, but as of right now, S
 
i dunno why, but i've marathoned a bit of Breaking Bad. About a season and a half so far. I'm not minding it, but it's only strengthening my suspicions that every single tv show is wildly overrated.
 
i dunno why, but i've marathoned a bit of Breaking Bad. About a season and a half so far. I'm not minding it, but it's only strengthening my suspicions that every single tv show is wildly overrated.

You're in the worst part of the show so far. It doesn't go full throttle until midway through season 3. If you still think its overrated then, I'll be surprised
 
You're in the worst part of the show so far. It doesn't go full throttle until midway through season 3. If you still think its overrated then, I'll be surprised

At least it has several likable characters. I gave up on Lost pronto because it had one guy that I sort of liked, but only comparatively.
 
At least it has several likable characters. I gave up on Lost pronto because it had one guy that I sort of liked, but only comparatively.

I wonder, did Lost answer any of the questions? The whole show felt like a set up for something big that maybe never happened.
 
Nope, and most of questions it answered were in passing and didn't pay off.
 
One of my favorite shows out there. Benedict Cumberbatch kills it as Holmes. RDJ doesn't even come close to him.

With that being said, I find Martin Freeman even more impressive, especially later on.

The show gets better and better, mixes a lot of great elements of most modern TV shows while probably being more fun to watch than any of them.

The BBC version shits all over the American one. Sherlock is one of the GOAT tv shows.
 
Just caught Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol on netflix. Great action movie. Exceeded expectations. Tom Cruise is absolutely killing it lately, all of his movies have been at the very least entertaining.
 
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