Social “Hostile Architecture”

[ferrisjso]

Nope. People should not be homeless. If you lost your home through a freak accident, you should get the options to restore your ID and other documents and earn some money to get you a place to live. If you are insane, you need to get proffessional help instead of being thrown out to the streets.
Being a bum junkie just because you don't give a fuck should be illegal.

If you don't think people should be homeless provide them housing then. Its a basic right its not something you need to "earn some money to get you a place to live". Frankly people should not be renting. The whole idea of landlords existing having a gun to millions of peoples head is just dystopian and gross. And its a big part of why theres more homeless people than ever. If one doesn't have small children or something who with self respect who can't get a house would put themsleves in that position?

People aren't obligated to "give a fuck" about capitalism. People are allowed to not agree with the producive direction of society and want to get away from it. If they are not then you do not have a country you have a forced labor champ. Which you've already said is what you actually want.


Like I've said before a society is only as free as its loiterers. If you can't loiter and do nothing everything you do in life is forced. Thus homeless rights are human rights.

 

[Sinister]

I'm basing my perspective not from SCOTUS but the whole system. They have it in the palm of their hands at this point. One of the main reasons I abandoned reform and electoralism I realized it was a lost cause and there was absolutley nothing that can be done to stop them. I realized that when I saw 3/4s of my law school class join the federalist society and saw the opposition organization offer even less resistance than the Democrats do in electoral politics(which is saying a lot). I know I'm doing a terrible job of explaining it but some things in life cannot be easily explained.

These people started the movement to redefine the constitution in their image when the New Deal came down the pike and when their word view was seemingly repudiated by the Great Depression. They've been planning too long. We never had a chance. Every right wing legal victory you see is 50 years at least in the making they've been planning this for lifetimes at this point.

You're not doing a terrible job. I understand. I don't agree with you, as we've gone over before, but I understand. I know the origins of the Federalist Society and how they've essentially co-opted Conservatism and allowed their religious zealotry to permeate many aspects of American life. However I will say that if Frank Schaeffer himself can not only abandon that movement he and his Father started, but become an incredibly loud voice against it in one lifetime, I dont find it easy to feel so hopeless. The US is NOT a "Christian Nationalist" Nation, a Neo-Nazi was just removed from a fairly minor public office in Oklahoma of all places, the theocratic fascists here are already proving to be comically incompetent. I know some of the "God and Guns"/"Jesus, Guns, and Babies" crowd think they're preparing for Civil War, but many of those groups are already in-fighting, because stupid is as stupid does.

I don't think reform can be accomplished from the top down. I mean, it rarely ever has, and that's not how these goons infiltrated the system. It has to be done from the bottom up, and when it comes to local elections, they're doing terribly there as well. We do need more lawyers though. Mark Elias cannot do it all himself.

 

[Limbo Pete]

You're not doing a terrible job. I understand. I do t agree with you, as we've gone over before, but I understand. I know the origins of the Federalist Society and how they've essentially co-opted Conservatism and allowed their religious zealotry to permeate many aspects of American life. However I will say that if Frank Schaeffer himself can not only abandon that movement he and his Father started, but become an incredibly loud voice against it in one lifetime, I dont find it eady to feel so hopeless. The US is NOT a "Christian Nationalist" Nation, a Neo-Nazi was just removed from a fairly minor public office in Oklahoma of all places, the theocratic fascists here are already proving to be comically incompetent. I know some of the "God and Guns"/"Jesus, Guns, and Babies" crowd think they're preparing for Civil War, but many of those groups are already in-fighting, because stupid is as stupid does.

I don't think reform can be accomplished from the top down. I mean, it rarely ever has, and that's not how these goons infiltrated the system. It has to be done from the bottom up, and when it comes to local elections, they're doing terribly there as well. We do need more lawyers though. Mark Elias cannot do it all himself.

I find his flavor of doomerism to be particularly pointless and whiny. The solution to policy problems isn't to give up completely, it's to elect better policy makers. But the Ferrisjos of the world aren't actually interested in policy so much as they are in perpetual victimhood as a moral virtue signal.

 

[Sinister]

I find his flavor of doomerism to be particularly pointless and whiny. The solution to policy problems isn't to give up completely, it's to elect better policy makers. But the Ferrisjos of the world aren't actually interested in policy so much as they are in perpetual victimhood as a moral virtue signal.

Well, to be fully honest this doesnt help much, either. You cant berate someone into participation in electorialism. And if Ferris has been to law school, you're not speaking to someone who is merely enraged about policies. The threat he is expressing is real. In these moments I recall something Bob Louducer said about Coaching Football. He was asked why his players held hands and why his program was incredibly focused on the closeness of the team. He said he went against coaching them to play from hate, because hate is tiresome. After a while you just cannot hate anymore. He said when you coach them to play from love, they can go longer and give more.

Some people do fetishize being revolutionaries as opposed to reformists, actually I think enlightened centrists are worse with this than Tankies are. They embrace accelerationism with a scowl, a distinct willingness to punish their own because they feel offended about certain issues that will be dramatically worse if the opposition wins. All so they can stand back and give a "told you so!!" This has always divided Liberals closer to center from leftists, and in turn from anarchists. Usually the anarchists get sacrificed first despite being the first willing to fight (this is a Spanish Civil War reference).

It's just a loss of hope in most cases. And in the words of Gale Snoats:

"But I'd much rather light a candle than curse ya to darkness."

 

[Limbo Pete]

Well, to be fully honest this doesnt help much, either. You cant berate someone into participation in electorialism. And if Ferris has been to law school, you're not speaking to someone who is merely enraged about policies. The threat he is expressing is real. In these moments I recall something Bob Louducer said about Coaching Football. He was asked why his players held hands and why his program was incredibly focused on the closeness of the team. He said he went against coaching them to play from hate, because hate is tiresome. After a while you just cannot hate anymore. He said when you coach them to play from love, they can go longer and give more.

Some people do fetishize being revolutionaries as opposed to reformists, actually I think enlightened centrists are worse with this than Tankies are. They embrace accelerationism with a scowl, a distinct willingness to punish their own because they feel offended about certain issues that will be dramatically worse if the opposition wins. All so they can stand back and give a "told you so!!" This has always divided Liberals closer to center from leftists, and in turn from anarchists. Usually the anarchists get sacrificed first despite being the first willing to fight (this is a Spanish Civil War reference).

It's just a loss of hope in most cases. And in the words of Gale Snoats:

"But I'd much rather light a candle than curse ya to darkness."

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, although I do think it's a close contest lmao

 

[Sinister]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, although I do think it's a close contest lmao

In most Historical instances of fights against fascism, the liberals have turned on the communists and anarchists. At some point they seem to think they'll be ok in a fascist system, and that those left of them "have grown too radical"...as they watch droves of minority groups get executed.

 

[ssBaldy]

If you don't think people should be homeless provide them housing then. Its a basic right its not something you need to "earn some money to get you a place to live". Frankly people should not be renting. The whole idea of landlords existing having a gun to millions of peoples head is just dystopian and gross. And its a big part of why theres more homeless people than ever. If one doesn't have small children or something who with self respect who can't get a house would put themsleves in that position?

People aren't obligated to "give a fuck" about capitalism. People are allowed to not agree with the producive direction of society and want to get away from it. If they are not then you do not have a country you have a forced labor champ. Which you've already said is what you actually want.


Like I've said before a society is only as free as its loiterers. If you can't loiter and do nothing everything you do in life is forced. Thus homeless rights are human rights.

"Your freedom ends where others' freedom starts"
Somehow they don't want to go to countryside and live in a hut growing their own food, if they "do not agree with productive direction of the society". They want to beg and steal and get welfare in the middle of cities and be a nuisance to hard-working people while burning through tax money.
They can fuck right off.

 

[Sinister]

"Your freedom ends where others' freedom starts"
Somehow they don't want to go to countryside and live in a hut growing their own food, if they "do not agree with productive direction of the society". They want to beg and steal and get welfare in the middle of cities and be a nuisance to hard-working people while burning through tax money.
They can fuck right off.

Seriously...what the f*ck are you talking about?

Even the system you're arguing in favor of benefits from not allowing people to be homeless. Having them on the streets is far more expensive than housing them is.

 

[ferrisjso]

"Your freedom ends where others' freedom starts"
Somehow they don't want to go to countryside and live in a hut growing their own food, if they "do not agree with productive direction of the society". They want to beg and steal and get welfare in the middle of cities and be a nuisance to hard-working people while burning through tax money.
They can fuck right off.

Where thats rage for the "hard working people" who contribute to capitalism and contribute to a cancer cell of an economic system? If they are a nuisance to these people. GOOD.

Also human rights are an obligation. On a federal money taxpapyer is a fascist dogwhistle but to the extent taxes are real the whole point of govt is to provide human rights for its people. Even the fascist founders felt this to some degree and wrote as much in the preamble of the constitution.

 

[tastaylvr]

If it were up to certain people, instead of park benches, we should be putting comfy beds with lots of pillows all over the place. Hell, why not a type of room service to bring the homeless breakfast in bed so they don’t have to get up and go to the soup kitchen.

so in a society that we are all living in

you rather chairs with wires to not let you sit compared to a comfortable bed?

weird take..

 

[ssBaldy]

Where thats rage for the "hard working people" who contribute to capitalism and contribute to a cancer cell of an economic system? If they are a nuisance to these people. GOOD.

Also human rights are an obligation. On a federal money taxpapyer is a fascist dogwhistle but to the extent taxes are real the whole point of govt is to provide human rights for its people. Even the fascist founders felt this to some degree and wrote as much in the preamble of the constitution.

You do know there were no bums in the USSR and able people who did not want to work got prosecuted, right?

 

[nhbbear]

so in a society that we are all living in

you rather chairs with wires to not let you sit compared to a comfortable bed?

weird take..

The park benches have hand rails instead of being flat to prevent sleeping on them. That is the hostile architecture we are speaking of

 

[koquerelle]

I don't know how I feel about it. I used to live in downtown Montréal and your view on the homeless changes a bit when they take a shit in your building's lobby.

 

[Sinister]

I don't know how I feel about it. I used to live in downtown Montréal and your view on the homeless changes a bit when they take a shit in your building's lobby.

They should have access to shelter and toilets to sh*t in (or their own bathroom floor) for that.

Nowadays people are so weird about "no public use" bathrooms my wife and I ask that before we go to places because we have a 1 year-old and have had employees shrug their shoulders.

 

[tenniswhiz]

"Your freedom ends where others' freedom starts"
Somehow they don't want to go to countryside and live in a hut growing their own food, if they "do not agree with productive direction of the society". They want to beg and steal and get welfare in the middle of cities and be a nuisance to hard-working people while burning through tax money.
They can fuck right off.

Very sad yet true