60,000 dead and 80 billion in damages a year- Opioids

[cincymma79]

You should care. The doctors and pharmaceutical companies have a lot of blood on their hands.

They know exactly what they are doing.

I think it should be legal then the drs wouldn't be part of the equation. Then we could let these people weed themselves out.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Couple decades ago, opioid reps poured millions into promoting all the good they can provide. People wanted them.

Now Big Marajuana money is doing the same thing. You think this is being promoted so much, and lobbied for so much out of selfless charity?

The data for MJ really helping people is pretty weak. I realize they're different drugs w/ different side effects.
But we're going to be in a very similar situation in a few decades.

Lmao

 

[franquito]

You're a liar. It provides much, much more than "mild benefit". Ask the parents of kids with Dravet or Marfan syndrome. Ask any chemo patient. These examples are just the tip of the iceberg. You're a liar and a troll.

Marfan syndrome? How does MJ help marfan syndrome?

Rather than throwing out insults, your'e more likely to win people to your side by providing arguements and engaging in discussion.

Im open to hear what you have to say. My fear is that public opinion jumps to extremes.
We used to think opioids were good, now they're bad. Now MJ is good.
Too black and white. It is likely to lead to problems

 

[franquito]

What negative side effects? You can smoke pot every day and function just fine in society and be physically okay.,

Of course. And many people do the same with opioids.
But it can be taken to extremes, and cause issues, just like opioids, or alcohol, or McDonalds.

My point is we have to be cautious any time something is heavily promoted and efforts to discuss its drawbacks are angrily shut down.

 

[franquito]

Cardiovascular disease,possible complications of pregnancy, and memory and motor impairment are some side effects.

Not saying its the worst thing ever. But everything has drawbacks, and deserves to be looked at objectively.
Anticipate the worst outcomes, and suspect the worst motivations in people until proven otherwise, to be safe and prepared

 

[HomeCheese]

There was a while there where more doctors were getting in trouble for under prescribing for pain rather than over prescribing. Now we better understand what a problem it is. If you ask physician about this they will tell you that getting a high does opioid user down to a safe level is one of the hardest things they have had to deal with in their career. It takes time, patients and a built up trust.

To compound the problem we expect our medical providers to see more patients than ever and financial models only work when providers churn through the appointments. The result is that medical providers do not want these high does opioid patients in their practices and they often have a hard time finding a doctor. It's just a mess.

Terminally ill and cancer patients are generally excluded from the ranks of those considered to be over prescribed. Most agree that whatever drugs help these patients to be comfortable is fine.

 

[curryjunkie]

we have decades of evidence about weed, like all drugs its harmful if overused by a small minority of people, those with a predisposition to schizophrenia can have it bought on by heavy use of powerful skunk type weed at teenage and young adult ages, some mental issues can be excacerbated by it if they are underlying.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/16/skunk-cannabis-triples-risk-psychotic-episodes-study
theres an argument that those people would develope psychosis anyway, but not enough research has been done
but on the whole its far less harmful than alcahol.
most folks who smoke a lot just get the munchies and it aint exactly motivational.
it is useful for illnesses such as parkinsons and MS, as well as other conditions.
i say this as someone who smoked for 20 years, on the whole its pretty harmless.
as for opiods, they have been misprescribed for years by doctors because drug companies push them , and the synthetic shit like fentanyl is deadly stuff, the manufacturers should be held more accountable, as should the insurance industry.
they paid fines after long legal battles, but measured against the profits they made from it its a drop in the ocean.
the biggest fentanyl producer also makes the anti overdose drug, so they clean up on both ends.

 

[snakedafunky]

The only possible option can be more opioids. Opioids don't kill people, people kill people.
No more Opioids free zones. No more background checks on opioids.
I mean opioids are outlawed in Europe but you still have people getting killed by opioids.

 

[CargoKing]

Couple decades ago, opioid reps poured millions into promoting all the good they can provide. People wanted them.

Now Big Marajuana money is doing the same thing. You think this is being promoted so much, and lobbied for so much out of selfless charity?

The data for MJ really helping people is pretty weak. I realize they're different drugs w/ different side effects.
But we're going to be in a very similar situation in a few decades.

This is factually incorrect and a reimagining of history. At no point were opioids "accepted and thought of as good", they were always known to be heavily addictive and were previously prescribed at a much lower rate for that very reason.

And the idea that the current push for legalization that's being lead by start-up companies is an act of "big marijuana" is simply put, a stupid interpretation of current events.

That got personal quick, huh?

It can provide mild benefit in some scenarios. So can opioids.

One prevents my epilepsy from causing seizures, the other is one of the leading causes of non-symptomatic seizures that lead to hospitalizations in the country.

If you think those are two things that provide an equal "mild benefit", you're dead fucking wrong.

I didn't claim it causes death from overdose.

No, you put it on equal footing with something that does. What do you think that implies?

But it does have well-documented negative side-effects that can hurt individuals and society as a whole if we ignore the side effects and it becomes over-prescribed the way opioids are

It's most documented side-effects are laziness and social withdrawal. Opioid's are death and physical addiction. To compare them to eachother is stupid, and you deserve to be called stupid for doing so.

Marfan syndrome? How does MJ help marfan syndrome?

Rather than throwing out insults, your'e more likely to win people to your side by providing arguements and engaging in discussion.

Im open to hear what you have to say. My fear is that public opinion jumps to extremes.
We used to think opioids were good, now they're bad. Now MJ is good.
Too black and white. It is likely to lead to problems

You're presenting an incorrect version of history and using it to support an unintelligent and dangerous viewpoint. You're comparing a wide-ranging medicine that small businesses are desperately trying to legitimize to a hardcore drug that causes physical dependence that's been pushed by medical corporations for 2 decades.

You deserve every insult you get in this thread.

 

[Ice That Jaw]

But how much did the doctors and pharmaceutical companies make? $$

opioids are terrible and shouldn't be manufactured.

They have their place but how the fuck did so many get produced? Its mind boggling how many pills are out there. Enough for every citizen to take 3 a day.

One of my childhood friends overdosed on a combination of oxy and xanax. The main reason he died was because he didnt have the tolerance of a full on addicted user but sadly, I think he was headed down that path.

 

[rokzilla]

There was a while there where more doctors were getting in trouble for under prescribing for pain rather than over prescribing. Now we better understand what a problem it is. If you ask physician about this they will tell you that getting a high does opioid user down to a safe level is one of the hardest things they have had to deal with in their career. It takes time, patients and a built up trust.

To compound the problem we expect our medical providers to see more patients than ever and financial models only work when providers churn through the appointments. The result is that medical providers do not want these high does opioid patients in their practices and they often have a hard time finding a doctor. It's just a mess.

Terminally ill and cancer patients are generally excluded from the ranks of those considered to be over prescribed. Most agree that whatever drugs help these patients to be comfortable is fine.

So would universal healthcare make it worse? I'm asking a sincere question.

 

[franquito]

This is factually incorrect and a reimagining of history. At no point were opioids "accepted and thought of as good", they were always known to be heavily addictive and were previously prescribed at a much lower rate for that very reason.

Yes, the benefits and drawbacks were known. And just like now with MJ, the downsides were hushed up while the benefits were praised, leading to over-prescription.

And the idea that the current push for legalization that's being lead by start-up companies is an act of "big marijuana" is simply put, a stupid interpretation of current events.

Why?

“People in the industry are primarily interested in getting rich,” says Stroup, whose long white hair and prominent cheekbones make him look like a composer from the 1600s. “When we were a distance off, you see people as either being for legalization or opposed to it. Those were the sides. Now, it’s not that simple.”-
https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...9bef8e9a48b_story.html?utm_term=.93cdd3be45f3

One prevents my epilepsy from causing seizures, the other is one of the leading causes of non-symptomatic seizures that lead to hospitalizations in the country.

If you think those are two things that provide an equal "mild benefit", you're dead fucking wrong.

Opioids are meant to treat pain, not seizures.
They do provide at least a moderate improvement in pain.

No, you put it on equal footing with something that does. What do you think that implies?

That its a drug which is potentially dangerous.

It's most documented side-effects are laziness and social withdrawal. Opioid's are death and physical addiction. To compare them to eachother is stupid, and you deserve to be called stupid for doing so.

Well that hurts my feelings.

Spoiler

You're presenting an incorrect version of history and using it to support an unintelligent and dangerous viewpoint. You're comparing a wide-ranging medicine that small businesses are desperately trying to legitimize to a hardcore drug that causes physical dependence that's been pushed by medical corporations for 2 decades.

So its unintelligent and dangerous to note the harms of something along with its benefits, and to advise caution when assuming the interests of companies (even the ever-virtuous "small business owners")

Ok. Guess I'm stupid

 

[Lord Coke]

Of course. And many people do the same with opioids.
But it can be taken to extremes, and cause issues, just like opioids, or alcohol, or McDonalds.

My point is we have to be cautious any time something is heavily promoted and efforts to discuss its drawbacks are angrily shut down.

No you are conflating a highly dangerous substance who's use is heavily correlated with severe health and personal problems with one that is not.

I don't have the numbers in front of me but this statement is not controversial. a large percentage of daily opoid users end up suffering large penalties to their health and personal life.

Pot users do not in large numbers suffer them as a direct result of using pot.

 

[franquito]

Let me be clear:
I do NOT think MJ legalization will cause deaths from overdose

I DO think there is Very low quality evidence for medical benefit. Legalization is being pushed not for medical, but for financial reasons.

 

[HomerThompson]

We should start heavily policing all these addicts, and throw all of them in jail. It's the only way to get justice for America.

 

[CargoKing]

Yes, the benefits and drawbacks were known. And just like now with MJ, the downsides were hushed up while the benefits were praised, leading to over-prescription.

What drawbacks are being hushed? Where and by what amount is marijuana being over-prescribed? Try backing up something you say with reality

There is nothing about marijuana being suppressed. Anything you need to know about it is readily available. It's barely being prescribed at all, let alone enough to be called "over-prescribed". So what the fuck are you talking about?

“People in the industry are primarily interested in getting rich,” says Stroup, whose long white hair and prominent cheekbones make him look like a composer from the 1600s. “When we were a distance off, you see people as either being for legalization or opposed to it. Those were the sides. Now, it’s not that simple.”-
https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...9bef8e9a48b_story.html?utm_term=.93cdd3be45f3

You honestly think people having a financial interest in it supports your points? A lot of businessmen like getting rich off water. Is water bad because of that?

Opioids are meant to treat pain, not seizures.
They do provide at least a moderate improvement in pain.

No shit. Opioids CAUSE seizures. Cannabis PREVENTS them, and treats pain. Now tell me again why they're the same.

That its a drug which is potentially dangerous.

You're comparing a thorn prick to a sword in the heart and blanketly calling both "potentially dangerous". It's dishonest and unintelligent. Opioids are exponentially more dangerous than marijuana and your comparison is stupid.

Well that hurts my feelings.

Spoiler

You're stupid, I don't care what you feel.

So its unintelligent and dangerous to note the harms of something along with its benefits

That's not what you're doing. You're exaggerating the benefits and side-effects to support your point, a point that has no basis in reality.

, and to advise caution when assuming the interests of companies (even the ever-virtuous "small business owners")

Name these companies and explain to me what wrong they're doing.

Ok. Guess I'm stupid

Good guess.

 

[CargoKing]

Let me be clear:
I do NOT think MJ legalization will cause deaths from overdose

I DO think there is Very low quality evidence for medical benefit. Legalization is being pushed not for medical, but for financial reasons.

Let me be clear; I take it to prevent my seizures and it hasn't even been regulated enough to be legal in most states, let alone profited from, so you're talking out of your asshole.

 

[FacePunch]

This must be KONE's new account or something.

 

[DangDaGawd]

adults killing themselves with drugs? i don't care. take the kids immediately, no second chances.

Do you have a job? Do you pay taxes? Do you pay for medical insurance? If so, you should care.

 

[DangDaGawd]

Of course. And many people do the same with opioids.
But it can be taken to extremes, and cause issues, just like opioids, or alcohol, or McDonalds.

My point is we have to be cautious any time something is heavily promoted and efforts to discuss its drawbacks are angrily shut down.

You claimed we'd be in a similar situation as we are to opioids in a couple years. Setting the discussion of benefits aside, there's no rational argument for marijuana causing the death toll or medical cost that opioids do.