International Active US Air Force member self-immolates outside Israel Embassy in Washington

[terrapin]

I dont think the theological angle fundamentally makes much difference.
At first glance it does seem that those who have the strong belief or to them knowledge of reincarnation, seem more willing to make these acts of self sacrifice.

 However, many people have also been willing to sacrifice their lives or put themselves at immense risk coming from a Judeo-Chistian background. If they believe the act is fundamentally good and justified (as I believe he felt the case is here with his intent) then they believe in a reward when resurrected eternally hereafter.

Even those who profess no particular faith are influenced usually by some version of Platonism which is implicit throughout much of Western society, so they are sacrificing themselves for an 'eternal principle'.
This can equally apply to atheists, for even if one does not believe in any form of continuity after death, if one feels ones current life is of no worth or is in support of harm or evil and against ones values, the thought of not being here may arise and in this case ending it while making a stand for principles one believes in.

The only ones who wouldn't even consider such an act are what is common nowadays, the hardcore self centred hedonist materialists who see no worth in life other than what benefits them and the temporary pleasures they can accumulate.

I was not speaking so much about the willingness to self sacrifice. That you do find everywhere seemingly in equal measure, but here I'm talking about people's ability to understand sacrifice looking from the outside in.

Theologically it's going to be harder to justify and harder for the average person to work his or her mind around if they're coming from the Judeo Christian tradition.

The self as a creation of God that is good, a gift and eternal is a very different thing to justify killing in the name of a cause than a self that is illusory and transitory and can come back again and again.

 

[terrapin]

I'm still having a hard time understanding the intense emotional reaction to someone giving their life in the name for a cause... It's hard for me to believe that people have ever even given this enough thought to have strong opinions.

 

[blackheart]

An ad hominem is attacking the person rather than the argument they’re making, which is exactly what you did with your non-argument. You called your opponents, “reactionary cowards”.

That's not what an ad hominem is idiot. I just explained this to you. Stop humiliating yourself.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

That's not what an ad hominem is idiot. I just explained this to you. Stop humiliating yourself.

Lol. It is:

Ad hominem

ad ho·mi·nem
/ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adjective
adjective: ad hominem

1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
   "vicious ad hominem attacks"

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

I love the reactionary cowards acting like this isn't one of the most powerful forms of protest you can possibly engage in, and like similar acts in the past haven't become world renowned moments that echo through time.

Stupid.

 

[blackheart]

Stupid.

what an incredibly articulate and nuanced argument. I'm convinced

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

what an incredibly articulate and nuanced argument. I'm convinced

Why thank you, Mr. Anti-semite With a White Savior Complex and Who Incessantly Jerks Off To Rose Monroe.

I'm pretty sure these Gazans will truly appreciate your stance on the virtues of killing yourself in the name of accomplishing fuck-all for the plight of the Palestinians. I'm pretty sure they'd also rather see you dead for being an American and non-believer of Islam.

 

[TheGreatA]

I love the reactionary cowards acting like this isn't one of the most powerful forms of protest you can possibly engage in, and like similar acts in the past haven't become world renowned moments that echo through time.

If it had been an American doing that, I don't think there would've been much of a reaction to it. It's just the way the world operates. If you sacrifice yourself for a cause that isn't yours, most will inevitably just think that you're nuts, even the people you're trying to help.

You're never going to see a Palestinian or a Vietnamese monk kill themselves over the treatment of blacks in America or something like that. It's a purely Western and "white" phenomenon to get outraged in someone else's stead.

This guy would've been better off committing his life to the betterment of Palestinian lives, if he really felt so strongly about it, but frankly I think he harboured suicidal tendencies and didn't necessarily see himself as being able to have much of an impact on anything except by killing himself.

 

[blackheart]

If it had been an American doing that, I don't think there would've been much of a reaction to it. It's just the way the world operates. If you sacrifice yourself for a cause that isn't yours, most will inevitably just think that you're nuts, even the people you're trying to help.

You're never going to see a Palestinian or a Vietnamese monk kill themselves over the treatment of blacks in America or something like that. It's a purely Western and "white" phenomenon to get outraged in someone else's stead.

This guy would've been better off committing his life to the betterment of Palestinian lives, if he really felt so strongly about it, but frankly I think he harboured suicidal tendencies and didn't necessarily see himself as being able to have much of an impact on anything except by killing himself.

It's really telling that you see genocide as someone else's problem. It's the "others" that are getting genocided. So who cares? It's not your daughter, mother or son getting atomized by bombs. So fuck em right?

Stop projecting your conservative cowardly lack of empathy onto the entire planet.

 

[Blayt7hh]

It's really telling that you see genocide as someone else's problem. It's the "others" that are getting genocided. So who cares? It's not your daughter, mother or son getting atomized by bombs. So fuck em right?

Stop projecting your conservative cowardly lack of empathy onto the entire planet.

He didn’t say it was his personal opinion so I don’t know why you’re lashing out at him.

But clearly the comparison to the monk was surface level and lazy. The monk wasn’t acting unstable on Twitter prior to doing it. The monk wasn’t copying another famous protest. The monk didn’t immediate collapse and start screaming when the fire was lit.

The monks protest echoes through time for a few reasons that this one doesn’t have. Bushnell’s will last until people get tired of memeing it. You can get mad at me about it if you want, it I’m just telling you how it is

 

[Blayt7hh]

It's hard for me to believe that people have ever even given this enough thought to have strong opinions.

We’ve already covered this. It’s because you’re arrogant as all hell and think you’ve always got the right answer.

I mean you’ll come in here and say that’s not the case; that you do t think you’re smart or whatever. But your attitude and actions prove otherwise. Example: my initially perfectly respectful approach trying to tell you it was a logical fallacy. You lashed out in the third post with a clearly angry tirade that someone would challenge your thoughts, and worse, that you couldn’t counter it.

This lead to pages of you melting down and clearly lying about things. Strange behavior when your posts were being quoted at you

 

[BudKing8806]

He didn’t say it was his personal opinion so I don’t know why you’re lashing out at him.

But clearly the comparison to the monk was surface level and lazy. The monk wasn’t acting unstable on Twitter prior to doing it. The monk wasn’t copying another famous protest. The monk didn’t immediate collapse and start screaming when the fire was lit.

The monks protest echoes through time for a few reasons that this one doesn’t have. Bushnell’s will last until people get tired of memeing it. You can get mad at me about it if you want, it I’m just telling you how it is

It deserves to be memed like hell. What a dumb way to take yourself out of this world. Yea, people are talking about it, but mainly to say how fucking dumb the dude was. Anyway, at least he won't breed.

 

[blackheart]

He didn’t say it was his personal opinion so I don’t know why you’re lashing out at him.

What? That was explicitly stated as his opinion.

But clearly the comparison to the monk was surface level and lazy. The monk wasn’t acting unstable on Twitter prior to doing it. The monk wasn’t copying another famous protest. The monk didn’t immediate collapse and start screaming when the fire was lit.

Famously, that monk was the first person in history to set themselves on fire in protest Reach harder buddy.

The monks protest echoes through time for a few reasons that this one doesn’t have. Bushnell’s will last until people get tired of memeing it. You can get mad at me about it if you want, it I’m just telling you how it is

You and thegreata edgelord are just projecting your lack of empathy onto everybody else. Yes, I'm sure in your 4chan groyper circles, everyone is "memeing it". But your little 4chan incel circle isn't the whole of society. Millions around the world are honoring Aaron's courage and sacrifice.

 

[terrapin]

We’ve already covered this. It’s because you’re arrogant as all hell and think you’ve always got the right answer.

I mean you’ll come in here and say that’s not the case; that you do t think you’re smart or whatever. But your attitude and actions prove otherwise. Example: my initially perfectly respectful approach trying to tell you it was a logical fallacy. You lashed out in the third post with a clearly angry tirade that someone would challenge your thoughts, and worse, that you couldn’t counter it.

This lead to pages of you melting down and clearly lying about things. Strange behavior when your posts were being quoted at you

It isn't a logical for a person to be inspired by this man's sacrifice and analyze data better and come to a different conclusion.

It isn't a logical fallacy for a person who gut reacted and came to a position to see this mans sacrifice and actually read the data and come to a different conclusion.

It isn't the logical fallacy for this man's sacrifice to help a person realize the gravity of what is happening, even if they don't come to a different conclusion about what is right and wrong in the situation.

Under your impossible position, all of these are logical fallacies and I know this because I've already given these examples to you and you've not changed your position.

I have to think you are arguing in bad faith or are not intelligent enough to see that you're wrong, but either way it's no fun talking to a person that can't have honest or intelligent dialogue.

 

[TheGreatA]

It's really telling that you see genocide as someone else's problem. It's the "others" that are getting genocided. So who cares? It's not your daughter, mother or son getting atomized by bombs. So fuck em right?

Stop projecting your conservative cowardly lack of empathy onto the entire planet.

Have you seen the Muslim world lift a finger? Or anyone else in the world? Where are the cases of Iranian or Chinese men self-immolating for Palestine? You won't find any.

Most people in the world have too many problems of their own, to be preoccupied with someone else's. It's only in the West where you'll find this impulse to be a do-gooder on someone else's behalf, and this has ironically been the cause of as much or arguably more evil than good.

This man criticized whiteness yet his actions are the definition of whiteness. Instead of looking at the dump that they're living in, as well as their own personal problems, they look across half the globe to find a cause worth fighting and dying for.

I personally think it's perfectly fine to be outraged about the atrocities committed, and to feel prompted to act, even when you're not directly concerned, but you also have to realise that it's not your stage to perform in, you're not playing the main part, this is about Palestinian's suffering, not white American military men. If he had lived in the trenches with them, gave aid to them, and won their respect and admiration, then I agree that this act would've carried a lot more weight. But as it is, it's just a random man on the other side of the globe killing himself for a people he never had any interaction with.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Famously, that monk was the first person in history to set themselves on fire in protest Reach harder buddy.

I didn’t say that. He was the first person to do it FAMOUSLY and be broadcast doing it though, now wasn’t he? Please put a little thought into your lazy posts next time

Millions around the world are honoring Aaron's courage and sacrifice.

Yeah you tell yourself that buddy

 

[terrapin]

What? That was explicitly stated as his opinion.

Famously, that monk was the first person in history to set themselves on fire in protest Reach harder buddy.

You and thegreata edgelord are just projecting your lack of empathy onto everybody else. Yes, I'm sure in your 4chan groyper circles, everyone is "memeing it". But your little 4chan incel circle isn't the whole of society. Millions around the world are honoring Aaron's courage and sacrifice.

The guy you are arguing with actually believes that if anybody was inspired by this man's self-immolation to reanalyze the facts of the situation and change their position, they are all committing a logical fallacy. He makes no room for any caveats to that ridiculous statement.

In one post I gave him five or six examples of people who would have either taken in facts they never took in before or re analyzed the facts of the situation more carefully as a result of this man's sacrifice and he leaves no room whatsoever for anyone to ever change their mind unless the reason is a logical fallacy!!!

When I asked him to defend this absurd position, all he did was post the definition of logical fallacy and then say it was a lock!!

I think he just learned what a logical fallacy is and is just posting the definition everywhere he can to try to win arguments. But he doesn't know the concept well enough to apply it to specific situations.

He argues for absurdity.

 

[TheMaster]

I was not speaking so much about the willingness to self sacrifice. That you do find everywhere seemingly in equal measure, but here I'm talking about people's ability to understand sacrifice looking from the outside in.

Theologically it's going to be harder to justify and harder for the average person to work his or her mind around if they're coming from the Judeo Christian tradition.

The self as a creation of God that is good, a gift and eternal is a very different thing to justify killing in the name of a cause than a self that is illusory and transitory and can come back again and again.

I think you are putting your own theological spin onto this which is not really valid. As I understand it these Eastern traditions view killing of any kind as basically against cosmic law and a bad thing with bad results. That applies to suicide also.
The only point I think is valid is that yes, if you have a belief that there is only life then it would possibly make these acts harder to understand from the outside than if there are many lives, definitely from an atheist position at least.

The counter to that though is if you believe you are going to a good place forever regardless after such an act it would make it easier to understand from the outside, than doing it and potentially coming back in a worse form or in worse conditions due to the act. Both views lend themselves to more than one interpretation.

 

[terrapin]

I think you are putting your own theological spin onto this which is not really valid. As I understand it these Eastern traditions view killing of any kind as basically against cosmic law and a bad thing with bad results. That applies to suicide also.
The only point I think is valid is that yes, if you have a belief that there is only life then it would possibly make these acts harder to understand from the outside than if there are many lives, definitely from an atheist position at least.

The counter to that though is if you believe you are going to a good place forever regardless after such an act it would make it easier to understand from the outside, than doing it and potentially coming back in a worse form or in worse conditions due to the act. Both views lend themselves to more than one interpretation.

Again, I'm not talking at all about the person doing the sacrifice. I'm talking about people from the outside trying to understand it. The western mind with such a highly developed sense of self that is also moved despairingly away from the selflessness that needs to be attached to that sense of self into almost pure selfishness, cannot conceive of a reason to give one's life for a greater good in this situation.

 

[TheMaster]

Have you seen the Muslim world lift a finger? Or anyone else in the world? Where are the cases of Iranian or Chinese men self-immolating for Palestine? You won't find any.

Most people in the world have too many problems of their own, to be preoccupied with someone else's. It's only in the West where you'll find this impulse to be a do-gooder on someone else's behalf, and this has ironically been the cause of as much or arguably more evil than good.

This man criticized whiteness yet his actions are the definition of whiteness. Instead of looking at the dump that they're living in, as well as their own personal problems, they look across half the globe to find a cause worth fighting and dying for.

I personally think it's perfectly fine to be outraged about the atrocities committed, and to feel prompted to act, even when you're not directly concerned, but you also have to realise that it's not your stage to perform in, you're not playing the main part, this is about Palestinian's suffering, not white American military men. If he had lived in the trenches with them, gave aid to them, and won their respect and admiration, then I agree that this act would've carried a lot more weight. But as it is, it's just a random man on the other side of the globe killing himself for a people he never had any interaction with.

This entire take is way off on so many levels.

First up theres plenty in the Western and non-western world protesting this who are not directly involved. Self immolating may be an extreme, but its an act of protest.

Secondly the US military is directly involved in this conflict. They are complicit. I dont know if you have had your head in the sand but the US military industrial complex has been arming Israel heavily. Thats people involved in building weapons and American military sending them and training people to use them, which are often used to kill small children and women. Its just that most people are so removed and dissociated from this reality like you, it doesnt seem to resonate. This man, being in the military himself felt close to it and therefore felt extensive guilt by association which is what drove him to commit this act.