Adesenya was never really good...

This is getting old.
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Almost no one performs the same every night or against every opponent. Anderson looked dull and flat against Patrick Cote, but like an absolute murderer against full TRT Vitor. Jones walked through every champ in LHW history only to stumble against Reyes.

Maybe Izzy had an off night, maybe he's got too much milage on him at this point, or maybe he underestimated Strickland. Maybe Strickland had the fight of his life or made some huge improvements, maybe he had a breakthrough with his confidence or commitment.

It's impossible to say exactly. But certainly Izzy has more than proved himself in the past, and without question Strickland was the better fighter on Saturday.
 
jackleeb said:
probably. the guys I train with are other casuals (who are in decent shape). we watch the pros practice during our breaks which is the main point though.
i have actual first-hand live experience watching high-level scrambles, which is a lot better than the average sherbro who only watches fights on the PPV
Click to expand...

Basically styles make fights. Alex doesn't need to build off of his leg kicks and leg kick feints or his jab and jab feints. Alex has a strong lead hook so once he threw a few jabs there was a wide opening for that smooth short left hook. Sean's narrow stance means nothing vs Alex bc Alex doesn't need his leg kicks though they help him when he has them available.

Izzy NEEDS his leg kicks and jabs so he can feint off them and build off the reactions to the feints. If he doesn't have them he is less than half the striker he usually is, same with GSP and his jab.

Sean's narrow stance took away the leg kicks, and the constant hand fighting took away his jab. Izzy likes to lean back and rip a wide lead hook with a lot of torque as a go to counter which failed him when matched up against Sean's inside 1-2 that beat him to the punch.

Beating great fighters isn't about imposing your game on them, it's about taking away their A game or their strengths and seeing what they are left with. In Izzys case he wasn't left with much.
 
jackleeb said:
If you really think about it. How does someone lose in their chosen specialty (striking) against a guy who got knocked out in round 1 (against Alex Pereira) with his hands down.

Either Adesenya got a lot worse or Sean Strickland improved a lot in the past year.

Looking at Adesenya's style, he is what I call a "point fighter".
Yes, he is capable of knocking out anyone, just like most UFC fighters.
We witnessed that when he brutally KO'd Alex Pereira with his counter right hook.

But if you look at his fights, he doesn't really go for the kill. Like you would expect a pissed off drunk high T bar dude or hungry lion would. He just stands and trades like a pacifist, trying to one-up his opponents and win on points.

No killer instinct like a Francis Ngannou or Jiri Prochazka or Islam Makhachev.
These guys instill fear in their opponents and the audience feels that tension (you know what I'm talking about) while being captivated from start to finish.

Adesenya is an expert at distance management, counter striking, and kicks.

But where is the wrestling?
The offensive jiu jitsu?
The muay thai knees and elbows in the clinch?

Because these missing weapons aren't an immediate threat in the match, we get a highly-skilled (albeit one-dimensional) fighter who focuses more on range and pacifism rather than just going after the kill and ending it.

Most of his fights go all 5 rounds because Izzy is too risk-averse to fight like a killer.
He knows he is the best technical fighter so he will do enough to just win on points.
It's probably the safest and most guaranteed way of winning (hey, a win is a win whether you finish or decision, right?) so I don't blame him but...

that is also the main thing holding Izzy back from reaching that next level.
And yes, even world champions can keep on improving and breaking their own plateaus.

Just my 2 cents sherbros..
Click to expand...

not reading all of that but I read three points.

Something about Adesanya getting beat on the feet.

Something about how poatan knocked Sean out on the first.

Something about how either Adesanya declined or Sean improved.

So I’ll address those points. With love. I know I like to troll, but I also like to help. So check it.


1. as it’s already been said, styles make fights. Sean is linear. Forward pressure.straight punches. the reality is that straight punches beat hooks 90% of the time. Yes, a hook around the jab is a great reliable proven attack. But you have to be faster and time it just right. Israel tried, but failed. But that’s mostly due to Sean’s defense.


And with due respect, Philly shell is a legit defense if you’re good at it. And the thing about Philly crab, it’s important to not depend on it. You have to mix up your defenses. Mayweather is the king of the Philly, but he also uses a variety of defenses. Parries. High guard. And again, higecrespect, Sean is damn good at using his pawing yo disrupt incoming punches. Israel simply didn’t have an answer for Sean’s offense OR defense. Sean put it all together well that night.

2. again, styles make fights. Poatan is a damn good counter puncher with lots of power. He’s good at finding your timing and your habits. So it makes sense that he took out Sean.

3. I don’t believe Israel declined. I think he overestimated his abilities. I think his team thought they figured Sean out from the tape and just assumed they’d walk through him. Most of us did. But Sean really did improve. Consider that he trained with Poatan in preparation for this fight. See how well he checked leg kicks. How well he cut the cage off. How he was able to use pressure to disrupt Israel’s rhythm. Credit to where it’s due, Sean proved that he’s much improved. And honestly, as much as he tries to act like some sociopathic murder boy, he’s actually a much more cerebral fighter than he lets on. He is not a just bleed fighter at all. He’s violent, but he’s more of a tactician.


Just realizing I’ma hypocrite for not reading your whole post and expecting you to read mine. My bad. Weed is a helluva drug. Much love either way. Glad you care about the sport.
 
Meh, I thought he lost to Romero and the 2nd fight with Whittaker. I thought he won 3-2 over Cannonier.

He is pretty overrated
 
bambammccoy said:
Basically styles make fights. Alex doesn't need to build off of his leg kicks and leg kick feints or his jab and jab feints. Alex has a strong lead hook so once he threw a few jabs there was a wide opening for that smooth short left hook. Sean's narrow stance means nothing vs Alex bc Alex doesn't need his leg kicks though they help him when he has them available.

Izzy NEEDS his leg kicks and jabs so he can feint off them and build off the reactions to the feints. If he doesn't have them he is less than half the striker he usually is, same with GSP and his jab.

Sean's narrow stance took away the leg kicks, and the constant hand fighting took away his jab. Izzy likes to lean back and rip a wide lead hook with a lot of torque as a go to counter which failed him when matched up against Sean's inside 1-2 that beat him to the punch.

Beating great fighters isn't about imposing your game on them, it's about taking away their A game or their strengths and seeing what they are left with. In Izzys case he wasn't left with much.
Click to expand...

dmwalking said:
not reading all of that but I read three points.

Something about Adesanya getting beat on the feet.

Something about how poatan knocked Sean out on the first.

Something about how either Adesanya declined or Sean improved.

So I’ll address those points. With love. I know I like to troll, but I also like to help. So check it.


1. as it’s already been said, styles make fights. Sean is linear. Forward pressure.straight punches. the reality is that straight punches beat hooks 90% of the time. Yes, a hook around the jab is a great reliable proven attack. But you have to be faster and time it just right. Israel tried, but failed. But that’s mostly due to Sean’s defense.


And with due respect, Philly shell is a legit defense if you’re good at it. And the thing about Philly crab, it’s important to not depend on it. You have to mix up your defenses. Mayweather is the king of the Philly, but he also uses a variety of defenses. Parries. High guard. And again, higecrespect, Sean is damn good at using his pawing yo disrupt incoming punches. Israel simply didn’t have an answer for Sean’s offense OR defense. Sean put it all together well that night.

2. again, styles make fights. Poatan is a damn good counter puncher with lots of power. He’s good at finding your timing and your habits. So it makes sense that he took out Sean.

3. I don’t believe Israel declined. I think he overestimated his abilities. I think his team thought they figured Sean out from the tape and just assumed they’d walk through him. Most of us did. But Sean really did improve. Consider that he trained with Poatan in preparation for this fight. See how well he checked leg kicks. How well he cut the cage off. How he was able to use pressure to disrupt Israel’s rhythm. Credit to where it’s due, Sean proved that he’s much improved. And honestly, as much as he tries to act like some sociopathic murder boy, he’s actually a much more cerebral fighter than he lets on. He is not a just bleed fighter at all. He’s violent, but he’s more of a tactician.


Just realizing I’ma hypocrite for not reading your whole post and expecting you to read mine. My bad. Weed is a helluva drug. Much love either way. Glad you care about the sport.
Click to expand...

good analyses.
yeah, styles make fights. which is why this sport is exciting.

do i actually understand how strickland can beat izzy? yes.
or how izzy could have an off night? yes.
was izzy actually ever good? yes. (my title was click-baity but i still think he is overhyped relative to his skillset)

i'm just baffled because I and so many other people thought it would be an easy night for izzy
 
Qays Stetkevich said:
After an utter shutting down and one-sided domination (of the will) there should absolutely not be an immediate rematch. Close fight, controversial decision, lucky shot, etc., sure. But losing a one-sided clinic where by the end of the fight your opponent is hands down in front of you screaming in victory and daring you to throw a punch.....and then being too mentally defeated to even go for broke...... no. We don't need an immediate rematch, and he doesn't deserve one.
Click to expand...

I could agree but in either case, hes going to get his belt back.
 
jackleeb said:
good analyses.
yeah, styles make fights. which is why this sport is exciting.

do i actually understand how strickland can beat izzy? yes.
or how izzy could have an off night? yes.
was izzy actually ever good? yes. (my title was click-baity but i still think he is overhyped relative to his skillset)

i'm just baffled because I and so many other people thought it would be an easy night for izzy
Click to expand...

i thought the same. Sean does a good job of playing dumb. “I just train to kill people.” Then he jabs Hermansson for 25 minutes. He’s a tactician. He’s a lot more scientific than he lets on. I really thought he would be easy to figure out too. But he did his homework on izzy and executed perfectly. He essentially outsmarted Izzy. I’m still mind blown that this happened. But Sean is way smarter than he acts.
 
I don't care for Izzy and don't think he ever got close to challenging Anderson's spot as #1 MW in UFC history. With that said, he's a two-time champ with 5 title defenses and clearly the #2 MW in history. No one else (Weidman, Franklin, etc.) is close to Anderson and Izzy's accomplishments. That doesn't mean other MWs in their primes couldn't beat him (particularly strong wrestlers like Weidman, Chael and maybe Khamzat). But objectively he's #2 without question.
 
jackleeb said:
If you really think about it. How does someone lose in their chosen specialty (striking) against a guy who got knocked out in round 1 (against Alex Pereira) with his hands down.

Either Adesenya got a lot worse or Sean Strickland improved a lot in the past year.

Looking at Adesenya's style, he is what I call a "point fighter".
Yes, he is capable of knocking out anyone, just like most UFC fighters.
We witnessed that when he brutally KO'd Alex Pereira with his counter right hook.

But if you look at his fights, he doesn't really go for the kill. Like you would expect a pissed off drunk high T bar dude or hungry lion would. He just stands and trades like a pacifist, trying to one-up his opponents and win on points.

No killer instinct like a Francis Ngannou or Jiri Prochazka or Islam Makhachev.
These guys instill fear in their opponents and the audience feels that tension (you know what I'm talking about) while being captivated from start to finish.

Adesenya is an expert at distance management, counter striking, and kicks.

But where is the wrestling?
The offensive jiu jitsu?
The muay thai knees and elbows in the clinch?

Because these missing weapons aren't an immediate threat in the match, we get a highly-skilled (albeit one-dimensional) fighter who focuses more on range and pacifism rather than just going after the kill and ending it.

Most of his fights go all 5 rounds because Izzy is too risk-averse to fight like a killer.
He knows he is the best technical fighter so he will do enough to just win on points.
It's probably the safest and most guaranteed way of winning (hey, a win is a win whether you finish or decision, right?) so I don't blame him but...

that is also the main thing holding Izzy back from reaching that next level.
And yes, even world champions can keep on improving and breaking their own plateaus.

Just my 2 cents sherbros..
Click to expand...
Yes! It's about time for another "was never any good thread."

He KO'd the champ to win the belt the first time. He KO'd the champ to win the belt the second time. But, any bum off the streets can do that.
 
jackleeb said:
If you really think about it. How does someone lose in their chosen specialty (striking) against a guy who got knocked out in round 1 (against Alex Pereira) with his hands down.

Either Adesenya got a lot worse or Sean Strickland improved a lot in the past year.

Looking at Adesenya's style, he is what I call a "point fighter".
Yes, he is capable of knocking out anyone, just like most UFC fighters.
We witnessed that when he brutally KO'd Alex Pereira with his counter right hook.

But if you look at his fights, he doesn't really go for the kill. Like you would expect a pissed off drunk high T bar dude or hungry lion would. He just stands and trades like a pacifist, trying to one-up his opponents and win on points.

No killer instinct like a Francis Ngannou or Jiri Prochazka or Islam Makhachev.
These guys instill fear in their opponents and the audience feels that tension (you know what I'm talking about) while being captivated from start to finish.

Adesenya is an expert at distance management, counter striking, and kicks.

But where is the wrestling?
The offensive jiu jitsu?
The muay thai knees and elbows in the clinch?

Because these missing weapons aren't an immediate threat in the match, we get a highly-skilled (albeit one-dimensional) fighter who focuses more on range and pacifism rather than just going after the kill and ending it.

Most of his fights go all 5 rounds because Izzy is too risk-averse to fight like a killer.
He knows he is the best technical fighter so he will do enough to just win on points.
It's probably the safest and most guaranteed way of winning (hey, a win is a win whether you finish or decision, right?) so I don't blame him but...

that is also the main thing holding Izzy back from reaching that next level.
And yes, even world champions can keep on improving and breaking their own plateaus.

Just my 2 cents sherbros..
Click to expand...
Really? He was top level for fuck sakes give the guy a break. I couldn't imagine how hard it would be to train and be a top level fighter at all times and I am not even a fan
 
jackleeb said:
If you really think about it. How does someone lose in their chosen specialty (striking) against a guy who got knocked out in round 1 (against Alex Pereira) with his hands down.
Click to expand...

Did you even watch the fight? This time...Sean had his hands up. OMG here we go with another one of these hater threads.....Your analysis is terrible. Izzy has KO'd some of your favorite fighters. One of the best MW's ever, and you should at least respect his skills. Respecting the man...well that a different subject altogether but you cannot deny he has way above average fighting skills. At the end of the day this is a Karate Forum man.
 
"Was never really good"

Jesus, the people on these forums sometimes. Wether or not you agree he was still in the debate about being the MW GOAT and some random keyboard warrior has the audacity to say he was never that good.

Fuck you!
 
jackleeb said:
good analyses.
yeah, styles make fights. which is why this sport is exciting.

do i actually understand how strickland can beat izzy? yes.
or how izzy could have an off night? yes.
was izzy actually ever good? yes. (my title was click-baity but i still think he is overhyped relative to his skillset)

i'm just baffled because I and so many other people thought it would be an easy night for izzy
Click to expand...

Don't get it twisted I gave Sean little to no chance but yea everything is obvious in hindsight.

U sure triggered alot of people including me with that title lol
 
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