Law Airport executive shot in firefight with federal agents at his home in Arkansas

Surprised to see people saying Ruby Ridge was handled well.

Why was there a settlement then?

only the biggest of smooth brains would think Ruby Ridge was handled correctly.
 
Really? What have I speculated on?

Really?


You're not forming an educated opinion. You're making an assumption.

The ATF has a history of overreacting and using excessive force for situations likes this . . . . anyone who has paid attention is stating their opinion based on that information. No assumption needed.

You keep saying things like "acted like they did." Can you provide details on how they acted?

Stop playing dumb dude. Based on the information available now, there isn't really a justification to support them acting like they did by serving this guy at 6am.

That's what you said. It's not "speculation."

Good grief. Feel free to provide the quote where I did. Or just add this to the list of things you've speculated on.
 

Yes, really. Go on, don't be shy.

The ATF has a history of overreacting and using excessive force for situations likes this . . . . anyone who has paid attention is stating their opinion based on that information. No assumption needed.

Sure but it's still an assumption to pretend like that is the case here, as many have done.

Stop playing dumb dude. Based on the information available now, there isn't really a justification to support them acting like they did by serving this guy at 6am.

"Acting like they did." How did they act? Why can't you answer a pretty simple question?

Good grief. Feel free to provide the quote where I did. Or just add this to the list of things you've speculated on.

I think you need to look at the definition of "speculation."

If the ATF was there early enough to serve warrant at 6am for someone seeming to be a non-violent person with no known criminal history (I'm not saying the dude wasn't a criminal at all, but if he were some serious capture the ATF would've said as much by now), they could've continued to stake out the house and wait for him to come outside away from his "collection of guns". But instead, they instigated a dangerous situation that didn't need to happen.

Now, can you provide actual details on "how they acted?" I'm guessing not but hopefully you know something everyone else doesn't.
 
Search warrants can be executed at 6am. There's nothing prohibiting a warrant being executed during the day.

I'm not sure why people think federal agents should wait for people to leave the house. It's not exactly a courtesy call.

It's best to wait and see what happened before making conclusions. I do find it amusing that people are highly selective of when to be outraged by law enforcement though.
6am in and of itself isn't a problem.

But at 6am, people are going to be jumpy because very few good things involve random people at your door at that time. It's also why the type of warrant matters. You come through a random person's door at 6am when they're not expecting, they wouldn't be crazy to be worried about a home invasion. Especially if they're already involved in malfeasance.
 
Yes, really. Go on, don't be shy.

Why? I've discussed this throughout the thread. Your answers are here if you actually want them. Go find them.

Sure but it's still an assumption to pretend like that is the case here, as many have done.

Based on the information currently available it really isn't.

"Acting like they did." How did they act? Why can't you answer a pretty simple question?

This entire thread is full of the answer to this question. It's what everyone has more or less been discussing. Stop playing dumb.

Showing up at 6am for a seemingly normal guy to serve a warrant that BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW NOW could've been as easily served in daylight without as much risk to the LEOs and homeowner.

I think you need to look at the definition of "speculation."

This has been addressed numerous times as well . . . you just continue to play dumb.

Now, can you provide actual details on "how they acted?" I'm guessing not but hopefully you know something everyone else doesn't.

I've already said a bunch of times that I don't know anything more than the rest of you . . . the actual details BASED ON WHAT IS KNOWN shows that the ACTED like this guy was some violent felon who deserved to be served a search warrant that would make the mafia proud.

I anxiously await you to continue acting dumb and asking about other things already covered in the thread.
 
6am in and of itself isn't a problem.

But at 6am, people are going to be jumpy because very few good things involve random people at your door at that time. It's also why the type of warrant matters. You come through a random person's door at 6am when they're not expecting, they wouldn't be crazy to be worried about a home invasion. Especially if they're already involved in malfeasance.

I don't know his schedule or what the rationale was for choosing the specific time but without more info it's impossible to say anything more than 6am isn't out of the ordinary.

If it turns out that they broke the door down and barged in or something along those lines then I agree they could have handled it better.
 
Why? I've discussed this throughout the thread. Your answers are here if you actually want them. Go find them.



Based on the information currently available it really isn't.



This entire thread is full of the answer to this question. It's what everyone has more or less been discussing. Stop playing dumb.

Showing up at 6am for a seemingly normal guy to serve a warrant that BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW NOW could've been as easily served in daylight without as much risk to the LEOs and homeowner.



This has been addressed numerous times as well . . . you just continue to play dumb.



I've already said a bunch of times that I don't know anything more than the rest of you . . . the actual details BASED ON WHAT IS KNOWN shows that the ACTED like this guy was some violent felon who deserved to be served a search warrant that would make the mafia proud.

I anxiously await you to continue acting dumb and asking about other things already covered in the thread.

Lol at "Why?" That's a great answer.

Well, not surprisingly, you can't post any actual information so good luck with all of this. I hope it turns out the way you want it to.
 
Or grab him on the way to work?

It's not like barging into a house is the only way folks have been arrested (regardless of wealth or social status).
Yeah lets "attempt" to arrest him while he is on his way to work, or at work so he can endanger other peoples lives. That makes sense, why would we want to arrest him at home where the only danger is to himself. People are soo stupid.
 
The ATF is basically where the most incompetent members of federal law enforcment go.




Here’s a look at Operation Fast and Furious. From 2009-2011, the Phoenix Field Division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), along with other partners, allowed illegal gun sales in order to track the sellers and purchasers, who were believed to be connected to Mexican drug cartels.

Facts​

During the Fast and Furious investigation, nearly 2,000 firearms were illegally purchased for $1.5 million, according to a DOJ inspector General report. Hundreds of guns were later recovered in the United States and Mexico.

In 2010, two of the weapons linked to Fast and Furious turned up near the scene of the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in the Arizona desert.

Whistleblowing led to investigations by the Senate Judiciary Committee and the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. During the House investigation, Attorney General Eric Holder was cited for contempt.

October 31, 2009 - Phoenix-based ATF agents get a tip from a local gun shop about suspicious purchases of assault rifles by four individuals. The agents begin investigating whether the individuals were “straw purchasers” working for a large-scale illegal gun trafficking organization. The probe later comes to be known as Operation Fast and Furious.

December 14, 2010 - Terry is killed during a shootout in the Arizona desert. Five of the men involved in the shootout are later convicted of murder. One associate is later convicted on conspiracy and firearms offenses in connection with the killing. The last suspect is arrested in 2017 and awaiting trial.

January 25, 2011 - The US Attorney’s office in Arizona announces that 34 suspects have been indicted for firearms trafficking from the United States to Mexico. The DOJ inspector general later reports that 20 of the defendants were caught via Fast and Furious.

January 27, 2011 - Senator Chuck Grassley of the Senate Judiciary Committee sends a letter to Kenneth Melson, acting director of the ATF, regarding the agency’s firearms trafficking investigation and allegations that the ATF allowed hundreds of assault weapons to be smuggled to Mexico. He notes that two of the guns may have been used by Terry’s killers.

March 3, 2011 - Melson announces the formation of a panel to “review the bureau’s current firearms trafficking strategies employed by field division managers and special agents.”

April 1, 2011 - The House Oversight Committee issues a subpoena for ATF documents.

May 3, 2011 - Holder testifies before the House Judiciary Committee. He says that he first heard of Fast and Furious only over the past few weeks.

June 2011 - Whistleblowers testify on Capitol Hill.

July 12, 2011 - Sources tell CNN that an estimated 1,400 weapons were lost by the ATF.

July 26, 2011 - The House Oversight Committee holds a second hearing.

August 30, 2011 - The DOJ removes Melson as acting director of the ATF and he is reassigned to the Office of Legal Policy. B. Todd Jones takes Melson’s place as acting director of the ATF.

October 12, 2011 - The House Oversight Committee issues a subpoena for communications from Holder and other DOJ officials related to the federal gunrunning operation.

November 8, 2011 - Holder testifies before the Senate Judiciary Committee. “This operation was flawed in its concept and flawed in its execution.,” he says.

February 1, 2012 - Terry’s family files a $25 million wrongful death lawsuit in federal court. The lawsuit is later dismissed.

February 2, 2012 - Holder testifies before the House Oversight Committee. He says that DOJ officials will be held accountable for Fast and Furious.

June 12, 2012 - Holder rejects calls for his resignation from Republicans during a House Oversight Committee hearing.

June 20, 2012 - Republicans on the House Oversight Committee recommend that Holder be cited for contempt of Congress for failing to turn over documents relating to Fast and Furious. They make the recommendation after President Barack Obama asserts executive privilege over some documents sought by the committee.

June 28, 2012 - The House of Representatives votes 255-67 to hold Holder in criminal contempt of Congress. This is the first time in American history that the head of the Justice Department has been held in contempt by Congress.

July 6, 2012 - The White House and the DOJ announce that Holder will not face criminal prosecution under the contempt of Congress citation.
 
Yeah lets "attempt" to arrest him while he is on his way to work, or at work so he can endanger other peoples lives. That makes sense, why would we want to arrest him at home where the only danger is to himself. People are soo stupid.

Yeah... Let's barge into his house at 6am

What could go wrong?

Oh, right...

<{clintugh}>
 
NSA, DEA, ATF....

All repeated violate US Citizen's rights with little repercussion.

Ya'll are fucking clowns

So only the federal ones? The state and local police never violate anyone's rights. Got it.
 
Lol at "Why?" That's a great answer.

Well, not surprisingly, you can't post any actual information so good luck with all of this. I hope it turns out the way you want it to.

Great talk dude . . . thanks for your contribution.
 
Yeah lets "attempt" to arrest him while he is on his way to work, or at work so he can endanger other peoples lives. That makes sense, why would we want to arrest him at home where the only danger is to himself. People are soo stupid.

Sigh. They're at his house before 6am. They can wait and watch for him to come outside and get ready to leave for work with less risk than barging in at 6am. Read the rest of thread before proclaiming someone is stupid next time.
 
Back
Top