Social Animal consciousness. Does it change your perspective?

terrapin said:
Notice how you have to shift it to people in order to make your arguments because it doesn't land if you leave it at animals that we've created for food. There will be objectively way more suffering under your plan than mine Obviously....
every single animal I would kill is still going to be killed and eaten under your plan. There's going to be billions more killed and eaten under your plan.

You don't have an argument here, at least in the way you're arguing it.
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Lol no. I used it because the thought process is the same. If there were no people there'd be less suffering.

You - if these animals are killed off and not bred. There'll be less suffering
 
Anewt said:
Lol no. I used it because the thought process is the same. If there were no people there'd be less suffering.

You - if these animals are killed off and not bred. There'll be less suffering
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there is one MAJOR fatal flaw in this argument though. we are NOT already killing off all these people to eat them. and one more... we are talking about animals we created and not people who did not create themselves.

think about those two points man. I'm not saying you have to now agree that we should stop killing and eating generations of cows. I'm just saying your argument is not a good one.
 
terrapin said:
there is one MAJOR fatal flaw in this argument though. we are NOT already killing off all these people to eat them. and one more... we are talking about animals we created and not people who did not create themselves.

think about those two points man. I'm not saying you have to now agree that we should stop killing and eating generations of cows. I'm just saying your argument is not a good one.
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It was based on the suffering bud. Not what would be done with the body afterwards. It was as much a silly joke as serious as in no way am I suggesting killing everyone would be better. Life is suffering.

I'm off the ethos it's better to live than not. Of course some cattle/ chickens and such are so mistreated from the get go I don't think it's worth it and that's fucked. I want to remove all that. Not the animals.

Oh it's most definitely not my only argument. It was a genuine question that most avoided. Appreciate your answer mate
 
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basically every single type of animal is a Planet of the Apes waiting to happen.

we have to kill them before they kill (or enslave) us
 
Blayt7hh said:
I came to this realization some time ago when I was going down the rabbit hole watching exotic pet videos. Watching things like wallabies bond to their owner was definitely eye opening that there was a whole world of living thinking creatures that were much more intelligent than we had previously understood.

Then I read about things like humpback whales protecting seals from orcas and recently one that saved a scientist that routinely dove around them from a shark that was stalking her and realized we’ve been way wrong about all of this. Here we have clear examples of animals showing empathy towards a different species and intervening.

I know I should probably stop eating meat. Maybe one day I’ll sack up and do it.
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Prob can make a good case to at least not eat mammals.
 
Anewt said:
Well I'm rural. We can get a slaughterer out here to do the job. Most around here do. Professional job. No wastage and as humane as possible, everything is used as should be.

No live animal transport. No overcrowding no days of stress. Painless [ being kod in comparison to how it used to be done ]


People consume the meat. The bones hide organs all will be used. [ pet food . Gelatin glue
etc etc ] taken and sold to the appropriate places.

It used to be in slaughterhouses that the cow would just have its throat slit. Now by law ( in Australia) a bolt gun must be used to knock said animal out first. [ and all animals before slaughter ] . Doubt they use the bolt gun for chickens but they are also kod somehow beforehand.

So compared to two decades ago there's been a lot of improvement.

I still don't consider slaughterhouses ethical tho.

But considering batteries and mobiles and PC's and vaccines etc all use animal products I find the moral superiority of some in here to be cute lol
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It kind of doesn't matter what the law is, if it isn't being followed.

"The horrific treatment of animals was exposed at five slaughterhouses in Tasmania through investigations conducted by Farm Transparency Project. Footage reveals sheep, pigs, deer, goats, cows, and young calves enduring slaughter practices that most caring people would consider unconscionable. Many were killed while fully conscious."

"Incredibly, two of the five slaughterhouses exposed had previously been reported for animal welfare breaches but were allowed to continue operating. Animals Australia has called for the immediate suspension of these five slaughterhouses, and for independently monitored CCTV to be mandated in all facilities that kill animals across the state."

Wow so not only was the law broken, but the government knew the law was broken and they continued to let these slaughterhouses operate.

https://animalsaustralia.org/our-work/farmed-animals/slaughterhouse-cruelty-history-repeating/

You probably know this already but being vegan isn't about not hurting animals at all ever, because such a thing isn't possible. It's about doing the least harm as is practicably possible. Throughout most of the world eating a plant based diet is pretty practicable, that's why most vegan consider it a must. Not using a computer or a phone though, is almost impossible, so vegans don't generally consider it a must to not use them.

As for the moral superiority, I don't care for it either because morality doesn't work anyways. Nobody wants to live in the straightjacket of morality, and if people have any sense, they won't. Plus morality can be twisted and turned in a million and one ways, just as I am witnessing a lot of the meat eaters in here are doing. If you can bend and twist something whichever way it suits you to fit your current actions, then it's worthless. If you are the one who has to bend and twist and stretch yourself in order to make something work, then it's worth a damn. Most people don't use morality like that thought, they try and make it fit their preexisting paradigm.
 
Anewt said:
We can break down meat.... not vegetation that should tell you a bit about what we are designed to eat.
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But yet it doesn't, unless you are retarded. We can break down pure table sugar, that doesn't mean we are designed to eat pure table sugar. The level of logic you are using here, is extremely rudimentary.
 
Everything is potentially food, that's if doesn't poison you.
 
KeepingItReal said:
It kind of doesn't matter what the law is, if it isn't being followed.

"The horrific treatment of animals was exposed at five slaughterhouses in Tasmania through investigations conducted by Farm Transparency Project. Footage reveals sheep, pigs, deer, goats, cows, and young calves enduring slaughter practices that most caring people would consider unconscionable. Many were killed while fully conscious."

"Incredibly, two of the five slaughterhouses exposed had previously been reported for animal welfare breaches but were allowed to continue operating. Animals Australia has called for the immediate suspension of these five slaughterhouses, and for independently monitored CCTV to be mandated in all facilities that kill animals across the state."

Wow so not only was the law broken, but the government knew the law was broken and they continued to let these slaughterhouses operate.

https://animalsaustralia.org/our-work/farmed-animals/slaughterhouse-cruelty-history-repeating/

You probably know this already but being vegan isn't about not hurting animals at all ever, because such a thing isn't possible. It's about doing the least harm as is practicably possible. Throughout most of the world eating a plant based diet is pretty practicable, that's why most vegan consider it a must. Not using a computer or a phone though, is almost impossible, so vegans don't generally consider it a must to not use them.

As for the moral superiority, I don't care for it either because morality doesn't work anyways. Nobody wants to live in the straightjacket of morality, and if people have any sense, they won't. Plus morality can be twisted and turned in a million and one ways, just as I am witnessing a lot of the meat eaters in here are doing. If you can bend and twist something whichever way it suits you to fit your current actions, then it's worthless. If you are the one who has to bend and twist and stretch yourself in order to make something work, then it's worth a damn. Most people don't use morality like that thought, they try and make it fit their preexisting paradigm.
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You asked how slaughterhouses can be improved... I pointed out how they can . And have.

Wouldn't you prefer those laws to be enforced? I would. Fine the fuckers and make a example of them imo. Hell even jail I'm fine with.

People breaking laws doesn't mean progress hasn't been made .

You are going to have a tough time convincing me a mobile phone is more important to people than protein honestly mate.


yeah honestly. All the props to vegetarians. I respect the choice. But when it comes with a lecture about moral superiority?


As I said I live rural.. without me there would be 100's if not thousands less animals on this property and that's not a exaggeration.

So having someone claim moral superiority when all they do is take from the very same system yet point fingers back at the rest? Not a fan lol
 
KeepingItReal said:
But yet it doesn't, unless you are retarded. We can break down pure table sugar, that doesn't mean we are designed to eat pure table sugar. The level of logic you are using here, is extremely rudimentary.
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Unless you're retarded it's clearly evident we are omnivores bud. We need both ..........

To much of one none of the other = death

Edit [ as a general rule ]
 
Anewt said:
You asked how slaughterhouses can be improved... I pointed out how they can . And have.

Wouldn't you prefer those laws to be enforced? I would. Fine the fuckers and make a example of them imo. Hell even jail I'm fine with.

People breaking laws doesn't mean progress hasn't been made .

You are going to have a tough time convincing me a mobile phone is more important to people than protein honestly mate.


yeah honestly. All the props to vegetarians. I respect the choice. But when it comes with a lecture about moral superiority?


As I said I live rural.. without me there would be 100's if not thousands less animals on this property and that's not a exaggeration.

So having someone claim moral superiority when all they do is take from the very same system yet point fingers back at the rest? Not a fan lol
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Laws are useless if governments don't enforce them.

Brother, vegans eat food and get their protein needs met from a variety of plants. I have yet to see someone in the modern age get a job without a phone. There is also the issue of having an emergency and not being able to call 911.

Anewt said:
Unless you're retarded it's clearly evident we are omnivores bud. We need both ..........

To much of one none of the other = death

Edit [ as a general rule ]
Click to expand...

We need both of what? Both of deez nuts in your mouf?! You set yourself up for that one.
 
KeepingItReal said:
Laws are useless if governments don't enforce them.

Brother, vegans eat food and get their protein needs met from a variety of plants. I have yet to see someone in the modern age get a job without a phone. There is also the issue of having an emergency and not being able to call 911.
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Indeed. But they undoubtedly will be enforced eventually. Otherwise they wouldn't be publicly shamed . Prior. That's just normal. Not a crime and disgusting to people. Progress is slow I agree. But you asked how slaughterhouses could be improved. Do you think if they obeyed the laws its not a improvement?

Ahhh nah plenty of folks round here don't bother with mobiles.

What plants provide adequate protein that you can see providing

Throughout most of the world eating a plant based diet is pretty practicable,

im genuinely curious
 
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