Are we drilling the right way? Block vs Random Practice

[Aesopian]

We all talk about the importance of drilling and someone is always chasing that magical 10,000th rep but it seems the modern research in motor learning and skill acquisition says this quest for the perfect rep is misguided. I wrote up a piece on this for those looking to improve how they drill and practice:

http://aesopian.com/3367/your-practice-should-be-as-ugly-as-your-face/

Unrelated to that, I also wrote a big post on pain science and how weird your brain is. It gets very sciency and clinical the further you go into it, but with injuries being the biggest problem in BJJ, you may find it valuable to know:

http://aesopian.com/3047/the-weird-science-of-pain-and-the-brain/

I've got a few more posts coming soon. They are (in no particular order): a review of Becoming a Supple Leopard, a review of How We Learn, more ways to include random practice while running classes, how to use random practice with clumsy white belts (yes, they can still drill like usual too), the influence of your lineage and your instructor on your personal style, and why I harass everyone who does static stretching before my class.

 

[Uchi Mata]

So would you count positional sparring as block or random practice? Or somewhere in between?

 

[Gambledub]

Caught this earlier today, awesome read!

 

[MikeOmo]

"The downside of using only sparring as our random practice method is that it can be difficult to get in enough “reps” of a technique, especially beginners who can’t dictate the positions of the match very well."

If this is main downside of sparring then it seems that positional sparring might be the best method of training. Due to the fact that beginners would be able to dictate position by default.

Great question Uchi. I would like to know what Aesopian thinks as well.

ps. "But games or drills that speed up the time between reps and put players’ feet in contact with the ball more often can do a better, faster job." Maybe this is equal to our positional sparring method?

 

[Uchi Mata]

Personally, I've moved from a lot of static drilling to some static drills with lots of positional sparring just because I found it more effective for myself and my students. Generally the complexity of the motion was what dictated the shift from static to positional drilling (e.g. I'll typically drill standing technique more before moving to positional because the motions are more complex and it pays to get more reps so you can pay attention to different facets of the movement on different reps), but for people who already know, say, a few ways to pass open guard we'll go from no resistance single technique drilling to moderate and eventually fully resistant position sparring very quickly, with most of the drilling being positional sparring in nature.

 

[jack36767]

This is how all the "high level" high school, pretty much all of college teams and all international teams train and drill for wrestling. That's why almost all good coaches teach positions NOT individual moves. That way when doing hard drilling, it's not so much about doing the move "perfectly" it's about executing while tired and staying in good position i.e. shooting with your head up

Live situations, starting live goes in different positions like a low single, high single, crackdown etc. also are a part of this. And are used as a form of "overspeed" training (made famous by Anatoli Tarasov and the Soviet Hockey teams) where you're forcing the athlete to make decisions while tired and figure it out and be able to process information and feel while fatigued but not too fatigued if done properly

That's why, like I have said numerous time before, that drilling for wrestling, IS NOT KATAS ON AN UNRESISTANT PARTNER, even if just learning a move. It is the partners responsibility to give a realistic feel so you can learn then drill the move correctly. That's why drilling in wrestling is an art in and of its self with variables like: alternating levels of resistance from 20-90%, live situations, play wrestling or "sparring" at 40-80% feeling positions out, repping 3 times then alternating, doing as many as possible in a minute or longer for sport specific conditioning and muscle memory, and chain drilling where the transitions are made muscle memory like takedown to a turn.

This is why it's so offensive when people say wrestlers only win due to "athleticism" and that wrestling isn't as technical as bjj...there's a plethora of technique and feel that's "invisible" and the training methods talked about like this have been in wrestling for decades but are ignored as what the "athletes" do

Great post Aesop love all of your stuff man!

 

[LaBrian]

Personally, I've moved from a lot of static drilling to some static drills with lots of positional sparring just because I found it more effective for myself and my students. Generally the complexity of the motion was what dictated the shift from static to positional drilling (e.g. I'll typically drill standing technique more before moving to positional because the motions are more complex and it pays to get more reps so you can pay attention to different facets of the movement on different reps), but for people who already know, say, a few ways to pass open guard we'll go from no resistance single technique drilling to moderate and eventually fully resistant position sparring very quickly, with most of the drilling being positional sparring in nature.

I'm a huge fan of this method.

 

[Aesopian]

So would you count positional sparring as block or random practice? Or somewhere in between?

Positional sparring is a perfect example of random practice.

 

[Aesopian]

I wrote this post about isolation training/positional sparring 8 years ago and it seems to have help up well, but SBG takes most of the credit for that since I'm mostly sharing their perspective:

Drilling will only get you so far. There is still a gulf between these static repetitions and using these moves in sparring. Making this connection, being able to get techniques in motion, can be one of the biggest problems faced in learning, especially in the beginner and intermediate levels.

Most leave it up to mat time, experience and determination to solve this. Keep showing up, drill and spar enough and it

 

[Badger67]

I was going to make a post on this last year but didn't think sherdog would appreciate it. Glad to know i was wrong.

We should tie in knowledge of results vs knowledge of performance, internal and external focus, next to connect some further dots for the students.

Quality post Aesopian.

 

[Aesopian]

Personally, I've moved from a lot of static drilling to some static drills with lots of positional sparring just because I found it more effective for myself and my students. Generally the complexity of the motion was what dictated the shift from static to positional drilling (e.g. I'll typically drill standing technique more before moving to positional because the motions are more complex and it pays to get more reps so you can pay attention to different facets of the movement on different reps), but for people who already know, say, a few ways to pass open guard we'll go from no resistance single technique drilling to moderate and eventually fully resistant position sparring very quickly, with most of the drilling being positional sparring in nature.

My experience has been similar to yours. My training is mostly self-directed now since I've moved and no longer study under my instructor. When I'm not teaching, my training consists mostly of "hey let me try this on you" drilling on a blue belt, then some positional and lots of regular sparring. I could/should probably put in more time into isolation drills and specific positional sparring.

One thing I haven't found answered well in the motor learning research is the right balance between static or semi-static drilling and live practice when learning complex moves. Most sports research I've seen focuses on quicker or simpler skills like throwing or kicking a ball. That's not to say those are "easier" skills in the context of their sport (I suck at all normal sports), but they don't reach the complexity of even a basic BJJ move like a scissors sweep. Should complex skills be drilled statically for longer, or should they be broken down into more parts so they can be "repped against resistance" in random practice sooner?

 

[Aesopian]

I was going to make a post on this last year but didn't think sherdog would appreciate it. Glad to know i was wrong.

We should tie in knowledge of results vs knowledge of performance, internal and external focus, next to connect some further dots for the students.

Quality post Aesopian.

Thanks, I'm happy to see the discussion going somewhere since sometimes these type of posts flop.

Do you have any recommendations for good studies of results vs performance, focus, etc?

 

[nefti]

I love this thread! I think static drilling is important to introduce a new technique to your body, to let your muscles get familiar with that technique. However to really to get to know that technique you need to feel the little differences in resisitance/positioning ect of an opponent, and that is where positional sparring excells. This is even more true when you are starting to chain techniques together. This is why higher belts will just hit the same move over and over on lower belts in "free sparring"; it's "free sparring" for the lower belt but for the senior belt it's "positional sparring".

 

[nefti]

btw this is why i think that throwing clueless noobs to spar is counter productive

 

[Uchi Mata]

My experience has been similar to yours. My training is mostly self-directed now since I've moved and no longer study under my instructor. When I'm not teaching, my training consists mostly of "hey let me try this on you" drilling on a blue belt, then some positional and lots of regular sparring. I could/should probably put in more time into isolation drills and specific positional sparring.

One thing I haven't found answered well in the motor learning research is the right balance between static or semi-static drilling and live practice when learning complex moves. Most sports research I've seen focuses on quicker or simpler skills like throwing or kicking a ball. That's not to say those are "easier" skills in the context of their sport (I suck at all normal sports), but they don't reach the complexity of even a basic BJJ move like a scissors sweep. Should complex skills be drilled statically for longer, or should they be broken down into more parts so they can be "repped against resistance" in random practice sooner?

It sounded from your post that the reason why block practice becomes inefficient (or at least a potential reason) is that the movements become rote to the point where focus is lost and learning ceases. If you're practicing complex movements, I'd think you could suspend the randomness element longer if you concentrated on different aspects of the movement during static drilling. So if for example I'm drilling a double leg with a particular setup, maybe I focus a few reps on the setup, then a few reps on stepping deep to penetrate, a few reps on keeping my back straight and head up to finish, and a few reps on cutting through the legs to finish the TD. Before each rep knowing 'I'm going to focus on this aspect of the move' and making sure that aspect is correct, even if you're not perfect on the other aspects.

This is essentially how most classical musicians I know practice. Take a piece, isolate the hard parts, work on each one for a few minutes at a time jumping around a bit between sections, and then slowly put it all together.

I do think that if you jump too quickly from static drilling to more live it can be detrimental, people don't have to be proficient at a move to drill it with some resistance but they do at least need to understand what they're trying to accomplish and roughly how to execute it. Personally, when I teach complex movements like TDs I don't worry about getting anywhere close to technical perfection I just try to identify the most important aspects of the move and make people do those perfectly even if the other portions are a little off. For example, I'm not going to lecture you on hand placement on a single unless you're consistently changing levels well and keeping good posture when you stand to finish. It would be pointless. And frankly, many of those small technical points are matters of taste more than correctness so when I do present them they're more options than diktats.

Keep in mind too that BJJ has an inherent element of aliveness insofar as you're always working with a living partner who is going to move somewhat and no two partners move exactly the same. There's really no such thing as totally static drilling in BJJ the way there is in a sport like basketball. You're always working with some level of energy from your partner, even if they're trying to minimize it.

 

[Badger67]

Thanks, I'm happy to see the discussion going somewhere since sometimes these type of posts flop.

Do you have any recommendations for good studies of results vs performance, focus, etc?

Yes. Keep in mind they are not combat related, or even necessarily physically related, but they do have the same transfer application (usually). I'm not entirely sure how many have been done on combat, but my coach employs similar strategies of motor learning in how he coaches (not from any body of knowledge or literature, just as a change of pace and what he notices works).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4237043/

http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Michael_Carter5/publication/42588779_Learner_regulated_knowledge_of_results_during_the_acquisition_of_multiple_timing_goals/links/0deec51ae482805e6f000000.pdf

this one is age related, so it can cover a wider population.
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Michael_Carter5/publication/233723577_Self-controlled_knowledge_of_results_Age-related_differences_in_motor_learning_strategies_and_error_detection/links/0deec51ae47cbdc981000000.pdf

This one is very useful
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3153835/

 

[yetanother]

If you are doing positional sparring against someone who you aren't vastly superior too it's hard to hit the same move loads of time.
It will take loads of time to land 20 berimbolos in positional sparring.

 

[Badger67]

Interestingly Uchi Mata, musicians is one of the main motor learning topics to study and discuss as it is quite easy to see the changes.

http://www.researchgate.net/profile/D_Cramon/publication/12975975_Motor-learning-related_changes_in_piano_players_and_non-musicians_revealed_by_functional_magnetic-resonance_signals/links/0fcfd51076ba5cb730000000.pdf

http://opera.media.mit.edu/publications/grindlay_ms_thesis_2007_haptic_guidance_musical_motor_learning.pdf

http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/excerpts/research-illuminates-the-benefits-of-random-practice-over-blocked-practice-in-motor-learning

 

[Badger67]

Here's some more on various aspects of motor learning, some by my professor.

"Knowing the good from the bad: Does being aware of KR content matter?
https://dr.library.brocku.ca/bitstream/handle/10464/4097/Brock_Azizieh_Jana_2012.pdf?sequence=1

Reduction of Bradykinesia of Finger Movements by a Single Session of Action Observation in Parkinson Disease"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23392919

"Memory and metacognition for piano melodies: Illusoryadvantages of fixed- over random-order practice"
http://link.springer.com/article/10.3758%2Fs13421-013-0311-z

"Analogy versus explicit learning of a modified basketball shooting task: Performance and kinematic outcomes"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19153868

 

[nefti]

I did judo for 2 years in korea, most of our practice was various types of drilling, but I believet that's because of the dynamic nature of judo/takedowns. Judo has such a small window of opportunity to hit a throw that it needs to be drilled endlessly. Sweeps/submissins are different imho.