Ariel Helwani vs. Zuffa: Who do you side with on this one?

Whose side are you on in this one?


  • Total voters
    683
Fuck ariel and his instigating ways with fighters. He doesn't respect them enough.
Which fighters does Ariel not respect?

Ariel promotes more fighters and gives more fighters more chances than the fucking UFC does.

An interview with a fighter is a chance for a fighter to gain fans and sell their own product of individualism and personality. Every time Ariel interviews a fighter, he's promoting them and giving them an opportunity that UFC doesn't give them.
 
After this is over I hope the mods do the right thing and IP ban anyone who voted for Team Zuffa.
 
I concede that it is rather distasteful for the UFC to have the kind of bullying control they have. I have felt the same for a long period of time. Truth be told, that is the bigger issue here. And in many cases, f you are going to have me choose between Zuffa and a lot of other entities, I will very rarely side with Zuffa.

In the vacuum of this case though, just surrounding Zuffa and Helwani, I just can't find it in me to condone Helwani's actions. They are childish, entitled, arrogant, and even self-destructive. Add to that his whiny, pathetic behavior and refusal to own up to his actions, and instead cry on Twitter to play the victim. It's unsightly. It's far more distasteful than Zuffa and their bullying tactics. That's the kind of response his behavior illicits in my gut.

With Zuffa I think of their bully tactics and it just flies out of my head the moment I turn my attention to something else.
But when I think about Helwani and what he's done, it leaves a foul taste in my mouth. It leaves such a strong emotional response that I've spent the better part of my day here on Sherdog talking about him instead of doing something else more productive -- and I have a deadline on some articles today. That's how much he has affected me.

I concede the MMA hour was a long, long pity party and Ariel did shirk alot of his responsibility during the extended retrospective on the road that's led here. I also concede that he isn't completely in the right as far as this specific incident.

For me, it comes down to Ariel's actions being representative of the way things should be with media being free to report on a sport or entertainment industry(provided the scoops aren't malicious/untrue). Being under the threat of being branded a pariah in the field and have access dramatically reduced hampering your way to make a living for not being in line is unreasonable imo. The UFC's actions on the other hand are, as previously mentioned, symptomatic of a system of excessive control.

I didn't particularly care for Helwani or Dana before this tbh(though the former did garner some sympathy).

Well, I think that's about all that can be said. I do understand your stance. I appreciate the back and forth leaving out any silly shill/hater/fanboy/hater/Insert Sherdog trope.
 
I'm talking about Esther and Casey because when they kicked Ariel out of UFC 199, they also kicked them out with him, even though they had nothing to do with him breaking the story. Casey was with Ariel, but had nothing to do with the situation. When they kicked out Ariel and Casey, they asked where Esther was. She was ringside taking pictures. They said she has to go too. You ask what it has to do with them, well, nothing. That is part of the problem. They kicked them out for nothing. It was guilt by association. People want to support them for kicking out Ariel for crossing them. But what about the collateral damage? This isn't just about Ariel. Others were needlessly banned as well.

I also deeply disagree with what you are saying about respect. Suggesting he should not break UFC news because he owes it to Zuffa, Dana, UFC or whoever seriously compromises his journalistic integrity. I really feel like you would be hard pressed to get many people from the journalism field to agree with you. It's a serious conflict of interest. Sure, Dana did a lot for him. He admits it. But he should in no way let that get in his way of doing his job. They wouldn't do that for him. If fact, if you haven't watched the MMA Hour, you should. You get an idea of what it is like working with them. They jerked him all around the place. They certainly don't come across as very ethical. They do a lot of dick moves of their own. But he also has sat on news before when they asked him to.

The UFC giving credentials to journalists shouldn't come with strings attached. Helwani working for Fox shouldn't come with strings attached. You are talking about all they did for him, but he bit the hand that fed him. But they fed him with a payday as a Fox employee. That shouldn't come with strings attached, especially after they fired him multiple times. After they cut official ties with him, he shouldn't be obligated to them at all. He should be obligated to his current employers at MMA Fighting. Not getting the scoop could be regarded as disrespecting them in favor of some on again off again "friendship" with Dana White.



On journalistic integrity -- you do have a point there about journalistic integrity. A journalist's integrity should not be swayed by feelings of loyalty to a guilty party. BUT!!! When you cite journalistic integrity, you imply a moral duty to report something for the good of society because hiding it would be "evil."

As Run'n'Gun and I have discussed, this is not about public interests. There are no public interests here. Only private interests between Helwani and the UFC. What is the journalistic integrity for? You mean not reporting and "covering up" Brock's signing is some grave crime to humanity? LOL hell no. The UFC was gonig to reveal that themselves!

This is not about journalistic integrity, stop pretending it is.


As for Esther and Casey, they are collateral damage, I agree on that. They were needlessly punished for a crime they had nothing to do with. But I don't care about them. I'm just weighing between the two -- Helwani and the UFC -- and seeing which one I side more with. I clearly side more with the UFC against Helwani.


As for press passes and strings attached... first off yes, if you work for Fox you should follow some rules! All organizations have rules or "strings" that you need to follow, or you are out. That's exactly what happened with him in the Fox deal. He got fired because he was stupidly getting away from those pesky strings.

But deeper than that is the concept of delicadeza. It's a cultural thing so it's hard to explain but in short if you have honor you wouldn't stab a friend in the back. This is a cultural value so I can understand if you don't get it, because it's not your culture. I would overrule this if there was a need for it -- a strong journalistic integrity moral need. But there is no such thing. So if he feels his loyalties now lie with MMA Fighting, and Zuffa be damned, I get your point, but I call that kind of reasoning traitorous and despicable. Was the few hours of getting breaking news ahead of everyone else worth tarnishing his honor like that? In my book, a resounding NO.

But I get your point that not breaking the scoop would be disrespectful to MMA Fighting. That's actually a very good point. But alas, he must live with it. If he sides with his current employer, then he has to be ready to stick it to his former. And so he did. And they stuck it right back to him where it hurts. And I like that. The leak is clearly an attack on Zuffa, and Zuffa merely retaliated. So I will tend to side with the first victim. If you were to ask me which was more just, I'd say Zuffa was in the right to stick it to him. "He started it," in other words.
 
I picked neither. Not really enough info to really know. All the info that Ariel was privy to could have been on the stipulation that the info doesnt get leaked. I know some reporters and they are giving info before announcements so they can start getting their articles together so they will be ready that night when they do make the announcement.
 
I concede the MMA hour was a long, long pity party and Ariel did shirk alot of his responsibility during the extended retrospective on the road that's led here. I also concede that he isn't completely in the right as far as this specific incident.

For me, it comes down to Ariel's actions being representative of the way things should be with media being free to report on a sport or entertainment industry(provided the scoops aren't malicious/untrue). Being under the threat of being branded a pariah in the field and have access dramatically reduced hampering your way to make a living for not being in line is unreasonable imo. The UFC's actions on the other hand are, as previously mentioned, symptomatic of a system of excessive control.

I didn't particularly care for Helwani or Dana before this tbh(though the former did garner some sympathy).

Well, I think that's about all that can be said. I do understand your stance. I appreciate the back and forth leaving out any silly shill/hater/fanboy/hater/Insert Sherdog trope.

Yes. There is definitely an issue on both sides, but really if we boil down to it it's a symptom of the bigger problem of Zuffa's strongman tactics. But anyway, we've come to a point where I think we have completely understood and unearthed each other's feelings on the matter and that is where our feelings stand.

I do thank you for the privilege and honor of having such an animated discussion. It was all my pleasure.

The shill/hating/name calling etc.... I reserve for those who deserve it. You've been nothing but a great conversation partner so I wouldn't dream of heaping such abuse on you.

I honestly didn't even know who Ariel Helwani was before today. Everything I know about him, I only found out today, lol. But it was a very engaging subject for today and I was literally riveted to the forums.
 
Just because you understand why the UFC did what they did does not mean you, as a fan of the sport, have to approve of it. Is it in your interest to only get information about UFC from people that work for the organisation or from journalists that are too afraid to publish articles out of fear of repercussion? To me it seems as though many people confuse how things are done with how they should be done.


I dont disagree with the UFC though, and I do approve of what they did. They have to protect their business. Ariel didn't have to break that news, Ariel forced the UFC's hand, and any business would have done the same thing.

Thats the risk you take when you report on a private business. You have to play ball or there will be repercussions, that's life and that's business. You need to work around it. Maybe its not a perfect system but thats how it is.

You're saying they have to protect their own business. You have no such obligations unless you're working for them so why would you side with Zuffa? Is it, like I asked before, in your interest as a fan? There's a reason why other journalists, like Ben Fowlkes among others, see this as problematic; if, for example, Zuffa would mistreat fighters, wouldn't you want independent journalists around to report on it? They're, of course understandable from Zuffa's perspective, essentially trying to silence a journalist that does not publish articles which are in their best interest.
 
But I get your point that not breaking the scoop would be disrespectful to MMA Fighting. That's actually a very good point..

Nah I think the opposite. It would have been better for them. The 'scoop' wasn't worth that much in the grand scheme of things, and the consequences (maybe) fucked all the staff at MMA fighting just so Ariel could get a little spotlight shone on himself. It would have been more 'respectful' to his colleagues to act with discretion instead of self aggrandisement.

like, would it have been 'disrepectful to Sherdog.com's staff' for Josh Gross not to leak TUF results back whenever, or was it just plain dumb, petty and selfish of him to do that? I think quite clearly the latter.
 
Everything has changed. 10 years ago the UFC was a fringe sport. It wasn't covered by ESPN or mainstream media. They didn't have stars that were household names. They weren't on the verge of being accepted as a legitimate sport.


It's the exact same company. Thats why they could ban media then and they can do it now. This is the same company that signed CM Punk. They can do whatever they want still to this day. This is the company that called Conor McGregor's bluff and kick him off UFC 200 without even flinching.
 
Not into facism so Ariel, freedom of press
Facism ? He was an employee, and after being fired all he did was just a childish move, trying to spoil the surprise like a frustrated virgin
What would you do to a person that spoil your surprise party ?
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Its not about facism its about education
 
As a Zuffa apologist, I will side with them.
 
You're saying they have to protect their own business. You have no such obligations unless you're working for them so why would you side with Zuffa? Is it, like I asked before, in your interest as a fan? There's a reason why other journalists, like Ben Fowlkes among others, see this as problematic; if, for example, Zuffa would mistreat fighters, wouldn't you want independent journalists around to report on it? They're, of course understandable from Zuffa's perspective, essentially trying to silence a journalist that does not publish articles which are in their best interest.

Again I side with Zuffa because I feel like they had no choice, and Ariel did have a choice. Ariel knew he was stepping on toes and doing something the UFC wouldn't want when he posted the news, the UFC had no choice in their retaliation, and as a business they must protect themselves.

This is not the issue of trying to silence controversial topics, this is just Ariel blabbing about a fight that was meant as a surprise. I don't agree with the UFC trying to silence people about fighter pay etc.. But when it comes to a fight announcement of this magnitude I think you should respect the UFC's decision to announce it themselves. The UFC does not like when people talk about fighter pay but as far as I know they have never retaliated over it. Dana may have told Ariel to shut up about it at a press conference or whatever but that's as far as I've seen it go.

Overall it was a dumb move by Ariel and I just cant support him because of it. He gained nothing and had everything to lose and he did it anyway, and for what? A few twitter mentions... He did it for the attention and disregarded how it would effect the UFC. You can't do that when your job relies entirely on the UFC. He burned himself and I'm just having trouble feeling sorry for him, because he knew it could/would happen and did it anyway. He needs to smarten up
 
I stand with Ariel. It makes me hesitant to buy another UFC after hearing what they have done to him. Ariel is the best in the business.
 
So since Helwani was really just UFC's puppet, and probably leaked the information about Brock knowing he wasn't supposed to, does he deserve to get banned? Especially since the godfather will just find a more cooperative puppet?



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Short answer: No.
 
I didnt think so before

But after his twitter meltdown I would say yes
 
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