Askren wrestling credentials

[george14]

Longtime MMA fan but total n00b when it comes to the wrestling scene.

Quick question hopefully someone can explain to me. I heard Cejudo on JRE claim Askren is "one of the best wrestlers of all time". Obviously there have been numerous All-Americans and some NCAA Champions. My question is what makes someone the "best" or top level wrestler? A guy like Romero was an Olympic silver medalist, Cejudo won gold, but someone like Cormier never medaled in the Olympics and is considered one of the best wrestlers in MMA history. Phil Davis was an NCAA champion but I don't hear a ton about his wrestling really.

Is there a hierarchy of wrestling accomplishments that is easy to explain? Is it: Olympics > World Championships > NCAA title > etc? Or is there really no good way of telling who is the "best" wrestler per se? The main reason I ask is one of my buddies who wrestled in college was saying there are some NCAA wrestlers who are better than olympians. I didn't know if he was blowing smoke or that was true somehow.

 

[AssassinFacedBaby]

Yeah I also want to know what separates Askren from every other great rassler

 

[BForrester]

International and U.S. collegiate wrestling are relatively different. Collegiate and High School wrestling are folkstyle, which centers more on controlling your opponent (on the feet and on the mat) whereas freestyle wrestling (international) is more centered on takedowns and throws. It just happens that folkstyle probably translates better to MMA because of the emphasis on controlling your opponent on the mat.

Take a look at youtube and watch a freestyle match and then watch a folkstyle match. In Freestyle, the referee will bring the two wrestlers back to their feet fairly quickly after hitting the mat. In folkstyle, they'll stay on the mat until there is a true stalemate, i.e. they're in a position where it is not possible for either wrestler to advance/escape.

 

[mbffm]

Sherdog standart: the more shredded the better.

Reality: You cant compare them. Wrestling is different to MMA, so finally its all about transitioning and implementing your skills so well, that you can profit from your wrestling without beeing a victim in all the other fields.
Thats for example what Cormier does pretty well.

 

[george14]

Sherdog standart: the more shredded the better.

Reality: You cant compare them. Wrestling is different to MMA, so finally its all about transitioning and implementing your skills so well, that you can profit from your wrestling without beeing a victim in all the other fields.
Thats for example what Cormier does pretty well.

Thanks for the answer but that is not really what I was asking. Probably poor wording on my part.

I meant what accomplishments or credentials make someone a better wrestler than another? If someone was a 2 time NCAA champ vs. a guy who didn't win an NCAA title but won a WC Gold, better?

 

[Dirge]

Askren holds a wide variety of wrestling accolades. Check his wiki page as they are numerous.

He is not the best Olympic wrestler to ever compete if you base it on success, Cormier placed 4th in the first olympics he competed in and the second did not compete due to almost dying from weight cuts.

Cejudo got gold, Romero I believe a silver. Matt Lindland as won Silver in the olympics back in the day.

However wrestling formats differ. that said Askren has a very unique style of wrestling that is what garnered him success.

Suffice to say he is one of the best wrestlers to effectively transition to MMA

 

[BForrester]

Thanks for the answer but that is not really what I was asking. Probably poor wording on my part.

I meant what accomplishments or credentials make someone a better wrestler than another? If someone was a 2 time NCAA champ vs. a guy who didn't win an NCAA title but won a WC Gold, better?

I should have answered the question more directly. Some guys are great with flashy takedowns and takedown defense. Those are the guys that are usually more successful in Freestyle. Then there are the guys that are animals on the mat and can grind down and ride a guy without giving up position, can reverse/escape from the bottom, etc. Those are the guys that find more success in folkstyle than freestyle. Of course, you have to have good takedowns and defense in both, but that goes without saying.

 

[Dirge]

Thanks for the answer but that is not really what I was asking. Probably poor wording on my part.

I meant what accomplishments or credentials make someone a better wrestler than another? If someone was a 2 time NCAA champ vs. a guy who didn't win an NCAA title but won a WC Gold, better?

Olympics are top of the tier. NCAA championships are a big deal simply by virtue of how many guys are competing across the US to get there.

 

[blaseblah]

Rashad Evans is a far better mma wrestler than Phil Davis, we saw that fight in their primes.

 

[Zolid]

Thanks for the answer but that is not really what I was asking. Probably poor wording on my part.

I meant what accomplishments or credentials make someone a better wrestler than another? If someone was a 2 time NCAA champ vs. a guy who didn't win an NCAA title but won a WC Gold, better?

one thing is for sure. olympic and world champs are waaay higher skill then ncaa so your friend was as you said blowing smoke out of his ass. but whats most important is the transition because it aint the same sport. you still want to controll your opponent but now its good if you can make some damage aswell if you want to suceed in mma. Mark coleman is probably one of the best examples. he did put on the hammerfists and had great controll

 

[bob]

olympics... world championship....ncaa


in that order.

 

[george14]

one thing is for sure. olympic and world champs are waaay higher skill then ncaa so your friend was as you said blowing smoke out of his ass. but whats most important is the transition because it aint the same sport. you still want to controll your opponent but now its good if you can make some damage aswell if you want to suceed in mma. Mark coleman is probably one of the best examples. he did put on the hammerfists and had great controll

So what I am gathering out of this is some guys simply make the transition from folkstyle to freestyle better than others?

Rashad Evans is a far better mma wrestler than Phil Davis, we saw that fight in their primes.

Good example, same with Jones and DC. He can mix other elements to kinda hide his wrestling.

 

[American_Bear]

BForresrer is correct. There is no Olympic sport for the style of wrestling (Folk) that is the most common style of wrestling in the U.S which makes it difficult to compare.

 

[American_Bear]

olympics... world championship....ncaa


in that order.

Lol, wrong

 

[knock_you_out]

What we really want to know is what would happen if Askren and GSP end up on the ground, in an MMA fight?

 

[90 50]

I can’t keep up with the different wrestling credentials, but great wrestling doesn’t always translate to great careers.

Look at Frank Trigg, a highly decorated wrestler that didn’t have the best career. And was an Olympic Trials Wrestling Finisher. What ever the hell that means.

In triggs defense through he’s only really lost to Champions even if they weren’t champs when they fought.

Hughes 2x
Gsp
Serra(ko’ed by the Terra)
Lawler


His best wins are I Guess Mayhem(who was good when they fought) and Dennis the Matt Hughes Killer Hallman.

You can be the best wrestler on the planet, but if you don’t translate it well to MMA it doesn’t matter.

 

[90 50]

What we really want to know is what would happen if Askren and GSP end up on the ground, in an MMA fight?

Askren would be on the ground ko’ed from a head kick so what his unconscious ass does down there doesn’t really matter.

Unless GSP dropped a Hendo style HBomb on his unconscious ass

 

[dirtroller]

The Hodge Trophy is awarded each year to the best college wrestler. Askren is one of only 4 guys to win it multiple times.

College:
4x All-American (2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st)
2x Hodge Trophy Winner
NCAA single season pin record.

Freestyle:
Pan American Champion
World Team Trials Champ/Olympian

 

[Londonjitsu]

Way too many to list.
He reinvented scrambling with his own "funky" style and he still holds the NCAA single season pin record.
He is regarded very very highly by grapplers.

 

[Teh_Lulz7]

So what I am gathering out of this is some guys simply make the transition from folkstyle to freestyle better than others?



Good example, same with Jones and DC. He can mix other elements to kinda hide his wrestling.

Yes because not every wrestler's strengths are the same. Some guys in the NCAA win via ride times and escapes from bottom. Not every high level wrestler is a takedown and throwing machine. Phil Davis is a great example. He was awesome at getting a takedown and not letting the guy up for the rest of the period. But there is no riding in Freestyle. Whereas somebody like Jordan Burroughs is a takedown master and his conversion from Folkstyle to Freestyle was seamless.