At what point does Karate, and Tae Kwon Do actually help you?

[aerius]

Like any other style, how you train TKD or Karate matters a lot more than the moves themselves. There are only so many ways to throw a punch or a kick, and while at higher levels the differences in meta games between various martial arts in combination with the rule set you're fighting under and what sort of place you're fighting (big cage, small ring, etc.) can make a huge difference on which approach works best if you're just talking about playground fights then anyone who has spent a lot of time sparring live against a variety of opponents is going to fuck up some random guy who doesn't know much. The problem with TKD and Karate is less the moves than how they're taught. Personally, I never sparred in TKD other than Olympic style which is all about fast kicks and ignores the hands almost completely. Pretty useless when someone is throwing a punch at your face. But ITF TKD is much more open, and I imagine they would have much less problem in a real fight than your Oly/WTF guys. Karate it varies so much by style. Kyokushin guys are tough as nails and would shit kick pretty much any random person on the street. But something like Shotokan the way it's often taught in the US with limited if any full contact sparring? That guy is going to get killed.

Back when I was in TKD, we had a very interesting instructor from our partner Dojo who'd help teach our classes every other week or so. In addition to the regular stuff we learned which I later found out was close to ITF style, he also taught us a few other things like elbows, basic clinch fighting, and the Muay Thai style round kick (we were told NEVER to use these techniques in a tournament, insta-DQ, for use in our Dojo only). We also sparred with heavy contact, we'd blast the hell out of each other with kicks to the body and usually left with bruises after every class. The other schools didn't like us too much in tournaments since we hit them too hard, but well, that's the way we trained.

When I moved over to kickboxing, Muay Thai, and boxing later on in my life I had a pretty easy transition. I was used to taking heavy strikes and working under pressure, all I had to do was learn the new techniques & concepts and fit them in with the stuff I already knew. I didn't have to get used to sparring or getting hit since I'd been doing that since I was a kid.

 

[spacetime]

The grappling aspect of Karate was called Tegumi - an Okinawan indigenous martial art which most ppl living there knew and practiced. "Jujutsu" is a Japanese term, thus it would not be used to describe the Okinawan martial art. Okinawans have their own language and used to be independent of Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegumi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawan_language

I wrote Karate. Okinawans did not call their systems Karate. It is a Japanese term

 

[Hotora86]

I wrote Karate. Okinawans did not call their systems Karate. It is a Japanese term

Actually, they DID call it "Karate". Only the way they wrote it was "唐手" (Tang hand). The Japanese only changed the first symbol so that the name SOUNDED the same but MEANT something different - "空手" (empty hand). Both make up the sound "Kara Te" (though Ryukyuan pronunciation would actually be [kaɽati]).

 

[spacetime]

Started in TKD and received a brown belt from a McDojo here. Worked against guys that absolutely know nothing. A kick to the ribs worked wonders and finished one guy in HS.
First time I got my asses kicked was a fat boy closing the distance and putting me in a cheesy school yard head lock and he beat my ass.

My first six months in Muay Thai helped more than the 3+ years in TKD, without a doubt. 2 years later, I spar with black belts in pure striking and beat "most" of them on the regular. I have also had 6 years BJJ and now laugh at how easy I could've escaped that headlock. But that's what training is all about; learning.

So as many have pointed out, better than nothing and very effective against untrained guys. If they train, not all that effective unless you are cross training other arts, imo.

TaeKwonDo does not have a brown belt.

 

[spacetime]

TKD only works against people who can't punch. Karate depends. There are dojos where people are trained in a more kickbox-oriented karate style, which can be very effective

TKD is not a fighter. TKD cannot work or not work without a Person. And if you take any natural-born athlete, I guarantee you they will kick ass with TKD just as much as they would with Muay Thai or anything else

 

[panamaican]

Depends on how you train them. You train karate with the goal towards fighting, it can help you within a few months time. The basics of punching, kicking, blocking, and movement don't take more than a few weeks to learn and learn how to apply.

You train it in a more artistic fashion where your progress is tied to time in the class and not your raw ability or with an over focus on aesthetic minutia then it might never help you.

You train it somewhere in the middle where you focus on the minutia but you're still aiming it towards actual fights (not theoretical ones) then it might take a year. But even the basic front kick and a single good punch is helpful if you know where and how to deliver it and that's an early skill.

 

[fluffball]

TaeKwonDo does not have a brown belt.

That's odd, I've trained at literally double digit numbers of TKD schools in various styles that have brown belts. I've seen with my own eyes dozens of TKD brown belts. I just randomly typed the first major TKD org that popped into my mind into wiki and it confirmed they do have brown belts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Taekwondo_Association

So.... no.

 

[shinkyoku]

To tired to go through all of this again. So...
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/so-you-think-you-know-all-about-karate.2263005/

 

[MadSquabbles500]

I'd say boxing and muay Thai fucks people up.

People includes the practitioners as well. The training, and hard sparring takes a toll on the body, and you dont get good without the repetition, and sparring

 

[MadSquabbles500]

If you want your kid to be able to defend themselves without to much hassle just enroll them in wrestling.

With MMA getting more popular in the MA industry, there is probably some MMA school everywhere. You may as well enroll kid in the MMA classes if self defense is the goal. Mainly because MMA has the most open ruleset of all the current scoring criteria.

 

[spacetime]

That's odd, I've trained at literally double digit numbers of TKD schools in various styles that have brown belts. I've seen with my own eyes dozens of TKD brown belts. I just randomly typed the first major TKD org that popped into my mind into wiki and it confirmed they do have brown belts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Taekwondo_Association

So.... no.

ATA is a fake TKD style with no lineage to the founders and made up forms.

The two main styles ITF and WTF/KKW do NOT have brown belts, they have red belt instead.