Best top game in MMA history?

[stormofshadow]

does laura sanko count?

 

[HavokHarmon]

He's just too arrogant to actually learn from people who know better than him. The whole Bisping saga proves it.

• Trains with Bisping some time in 2011/2012 while Strikeforce champ and both sides agree he lost the sparring because of Bisping's boxing
• Actually fights Bisping in 2014 and gets caught in the first by Bisping's boxing, though eventually wins with a headkick/sub. Neither of which are boxing.
• Rematches him in 2016 and again gets caught by Bisping's boxing in the first, this time getting KO'd
• Years and more KOs later by guys outboxing him in 2021 he finally decides to train with Bisping and his boxing coach and does improve his boxing, but long after his heart and chin were gone so it's useless to his game.

It took him an entire decade to try and fix where he knew his problem was and knew where he could fix it. A less humble person would've just fixed it back then and instead had a decade of experience under their belt with it.

Yeah that’s fair, it seems like he could have done more although I can understand not wanting to throw your whole standup style out the window.

 

[Masturbin]

I think people are too quick to handwave away the Gane performance as Gane being bad on the ground vs Jones actually being that great on the ground. He's done this before to far greater grapplers than Gane

The last time he subbed or finished someone in the first rround was 10+ years ago.

I think it's fair to say it's not really representative of his picogram era.

 

[Private Whatley]

Barnett’s mount was and probably still is a death sentence.

 

[markg171]

The last time he subbed or finished someone in the first rround was 10+ years ago.

I think it's fair to say it's not really representative of his picogram era.

Okay, but this is who he's beaten on the ground before:

• Outgrappled BJJ BB Bonnar
• Subbed O'Brien, 3x State HS wrestling
• Outgrappled Hamill, NCAA Div III wrestling
• Outgrappled Vera, NCAA DiI wrestling, Army wrestling, BJJ BB
• Outgrappled Matyushenko, Soviet Olympic wrestler, 2x NJCAA Champ
• Subbed Bader, 2x NCAA Div 1 All-American
• Outgrappled Shogun, BJJ BB
• Subbed Rampage, All-State HS, CCCAA wrestler
• Subbed Machida, BJJ BB
• Outgrappled Rashad, NCAA Div 1, BJJ BB
• Subbed Vitor, BJJ BB
• Outgrappled Chael, NCAA Div All-American, Olympic trialist, Silver world University Greco-Roman
• Outgrappled and basically dislocated Glover's shoulder, BJJ BB
  
• Outgrappled Cormier, Olympian and too many other wrestling titles to list
• Outgrappled Smith, BJJ BB
• 5-0 in submission grappling, with all 5 subs, including subbing Dan Henderson

The guys not on the list are

• Never really went to ground but still outgrappled OSP
• TKO'd on ground Gus 1x, purple belt, undefeated in shoot and sub grappling
• Never went to ground Santos, BJJ BB
• Never really went to ground Reyes, no grappling background but had already demonstrated great TDD

Gane is the worst grappler he's fought in years regardless. Maybe not many were expecting a 1st round sub, but he'd already dominated way, way, way better grappler's than Gane. If he can do it to actually great grapplers he should be able to do it to someone who isn't.

 

[pick999]

1.jon
2.werdum
3.fedor
4.gsp
5.maia

 

[Taric]

It's GSP and Khabib, by a wide margin, in whatever order makes you happiest.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Who do you think has the most effective top game in MMA history?

My opinion:
1. Khabib Nurmagomedov
2. Georges St-Pierre
3. Fedor Emelianenko
4. Luke Rockhold
5. Demian Maia

GSP was on top so often yet barely ever finished anyone.

He does not belong on this list.


Example:
If Luke got on top of you ... its almost a done deal yku gonna get finished.

If GSP got on top you and he will very often ... you will get up or survive the round no problem.

 

[michi972]

It seems crazy that he trained with DC and Khabib and takedowns were a weak point in his game. I remember an interview from a while back where he was asked about that and he said he had trouble using a lot of traditional wrestling takedowns from his stance so maybe that’s why.

He had pretty strony clinch takedowns and great tdd, but he lacked those single leg and double leg takedowns. Maybe he wasn't as talented in wrestling. Anyway his kicking based striking gamę, great tdd, scrambles and top game still led him to championship

 

[Thai Domi]

GSP and Khabib.....debatable who was better, both are way ahead of who ever is #3.

Mark Coleman, Tito, Brock, BJ Penn are worth mentioning.

Coleman was the first person I thought of

 

[Captain_Dammitt]

No love for Aarona?

 

[mudoxiii]

Cain Valasquez beat the brakes off of dudes once he got top control.

 

[Hassan Mouzine]

khabib would often face a guy that was working relentlesly to get back to his feet. khabib was real smart in this regard and always knew when to be in the best (next) position. in stead of fighting every attempt from his opponent, he would let guys up just to throw them viciously back to the ground. sometimes in a better spot in the cage and a better position.

sometimes he would do this several times and just broke their spirit.

 

[Goodfella86]

I'm aware that they've both been triangled, but Chiesa and Lee are both deadly on top.

Rockhold is so deadly; it's a shame he didn't have better wrestling.

 

[Benoitthegr8]

Tito “Bleach headed stepchild of GNP” Ortiz

 

[John Creed]

It's interesting how looking at TS list I'd actually be willing to put over half of them as having better bottom games than top games. Khabib, Fedor, and Maia are better on the bottom than on top IMO.

What the hell are you talking about?