Billionaire wealth up by 13% annually since 2010; six times faster than ordinary worker wages.

[Scheme]

Your first point contradicts the second one.

Where do you think that the profits from increased productivity are going if not into the pockets of average workers? They don't disappear into the ether. They're being pocketed by the wealthy and by big business.

If the percentage of wealth held by people at the top grows disproportionately compared to the population as a whole, then it is an issue.

But where does the money of the billionaires go?

First of all, they get taxed on their income, so already a good chunk is going to the government.
If they reinvest it in their business in America, then that's good because more workers, more economic activity (buying/selling things in America, renting properties in America), etc.
If they keep it in their bank accounts then the bank takes the majority of their money and plays the stock market, meaning more economic activity, jobs, etc.
If they invest it in the stock market then same thing.
If they spend it in America (like let's say on a mansion), then other businesses get their money to grow, creating jobs, economic activity, etc.

The only real problem I can see is if they spend/invest money outside America.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

What are you talking about? He made the simple math mistake of equating the 13% increase in the total wealth of billionaires with the 14% increase in an individual's stock investment portfolio. Total wealth vs. stock portfolio growth.

Unless the individual has no other wealth impacting circumstances in their life except their stock portfolio and 100% of their wealth is in the markets, his comparison makes no sense.

For a lot of billionaires investments are the vast majority of their wealth.

 

[JonesBones]

This is one of the reasons Marx thought capitalism would fail. Nobody could afford to buy the billionare's products anymore. Credit was a countermeasure. And it got us in debt. The average citizen is in in debt. Our government is. Maybe capitalism will collapse. Be interesting to see.

 

[JonesBones]

The Dow Jones Industrial Average annualised return since 2010 with dividends reinvested is 14.18% so if you invested in a fund that tracks the market you could have beaten the evil billionaires.

That is a great point; the average person could have made great profits in the market this year. S and P was up over 20% this year. The problem is, they didn't. Why? Because investing is at a low for normal retail investors. They are still shaken up by the housing crisis and the stock market has lost credibility to them. I read an article on this. So it was still mainly rich people making money due to the ignorance of the poor. The middle class sat this year out. Bad year to sit out.

Here is one article:

Since President Trump's election, the Dow has spiked more than 4,600 points, or about 25%. The S&P 500 has added $2 trillion in value.
That's all great news if you're investing in corporate stocks, or if your 401(k) is heavy on equities. Over the past three years, the value of families' portfolios has risen "dramatically" to an average of $344,500, according to a September Federal Reserve report.

Yet the spoils of the stock market run are slanted heavily in favor of the wealthy.

Barely one-third of families in the bottom 50% of earners own stocks, according to the Fed. On the other hand, nearly 94% of the top income group owned stocks in 2016.

Lower-income Americans don't have extra money to put into stocks, and a third of workers don't have access to a 401(k) or another retirement plan, according to Pew.


Less than a third of people ages 18 to 29 owned stocks on average between 2009 and 2017, according to a Gallup survey released in April. Nearly two-thirds of Americans between 30 and 64 own stocks.

"They saw their parents get burned and don't have as much money to invest," says Ryan Detrick, a senior market strategist at LPL Financial.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/20/investing/trump-stock-market-americans/index.html

 

[sickc0d3r]

Capital production will only increase and continue to replace human labor. The near term solution has to be for the general public to claim greater shares of ownership. Unfortunately, people just do not place investments high enough on their list of priorities.

 

[JonesBones]

What I find funny is that the article says that the average person can't afford stocks. They actually can. But they are too busy buying all these scratch off tickets that the state advertises so much. It is a huge industry. If these scratch off idiots put all the money they put in scratch offs into the market, they would actually be up. lol.

 

[Phisher]

But where does the money of the billionaires go?

First of all, they get taxed on their income, so already a good chunk is going to the government.
If they reinvest it in their business in America, then that's good because more workers, more economic activity (buying/selling things in America, renting properties in America), etc.
If they keep it in their bank accounts then the bank takes the majority of their money and plays the stock market, meaning more economic activity, jobs, etc.
If they invest it in the stock market then same thing.
If they spend it in America (like let's say on a mansion), then other businesses get their money to grow, creating jobs, economic activity, etc.

The only real problem I can see is if they spend/invest money outside America.

Billionaire taxes are disproportionately low when you account for all of the ridiculous loopholes like carried interest and write offs for private jets, and the Panama/Paradise papers showed the extent which wealthy hide their assets offshore.

They also get away with a mind-boggling amount of tax evasion unlike regular people. EG The Mercer family. Their hedge fund owes the government $7 billion in unpaid taxes going back more than a decade. Their entire foray into politics in the past few years has been to curry favor with the GOP so that their tax bill can be reduced or eliminated altogether. This is a known issue to the IRS. Any average Joe who pulled this shit would be prosecuted, have all of his assets seized and lose his business. The Mercers, on the other hand, have been allowed to stall and "negotiate" with the government.


http://www.businessinsider.com/mercer-trump-renaissance-technologies-billions-tax-bill-2017-4

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article147454324.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-hedge-fund-taxes-moves-to-irs-appeals-office

The wealthy and big business don't use tax breaks to reinvest in the US. They buy back stock so that they can accrue even more personal wealth. Here's Director of the National Economic Council Gary Cohn getting embarrassed after asking a roomful of CEOs if they're planning on increasing US capital investment after getting a massive tax cut.






Trickle down has proven to be a crock of shit. We have thirty years of evidence in the form of stagnant wages and increased debt that's done nothing to improve the lot of the average American.

 

[Satsui Ryu]

Your first point contradicts the second one.

Where do you think that the profits from increased productivity are going if not into the pockets of average workers? They don't disappear into the ether. They're being pocketed by the wealthy and by big business.

If the percentage of wealth held by people at the top grows disproportionately compared to the population as a whole, then it is an issue.

Point taken.

 

[JonesBones]

Billionaire taxes are disproportionately low when you account for all of the ridiculous loopholes like carried interest and write offs for private jets, and the Panama/Paradise papers showed the extent which wealthy hide their assets offshore.

They also get away with a mind-boggling amount of tax evasion unlike regular people. EG The Mercer family. Their hedge fund owes the government $7 billion in unpaid taxes going back more than a decade. Their entire foray into politics in the past few years has been to curry favor with the GOP so that their tax bill can be reduced or eliminated altogether. This is a known issue to the IRS. Any average Joe who pulled this shit would be prosecuted, have all of his assets seized and lose his business. The Mercers, on the other hand, have been allowed to stall and "negotiate" with the government.


http://www.businessinsider.com/mercer-trump-renaissance-technologies-billions-tax-bill-2017-4

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article147454324.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-hedge-fund-taxes-moves-to-irs-appeals-office

The wealthy and big business don't use tax breaks to reinvest in the US. They buy back stock so that they can accrue even more personal wealth. Here's Director of the National Economic Council Gary Cohn getting embarrassed after asking a roomful of CEOs if they're planning on increasing US capital investment after getting a massive tax cut.






Trickle down has proven to be a crock of shit. We have thirty years of evidence in the form of stagnant wages and increased debt that's done nothing to improve the lot of the average American.

I think WArren Buffett has the lowest tax rate in his office. lol. Less than his secretary.

And ya, companies like Apple don't even pay taxes. They used the Irish thing for a while. Both the EU and US want that tax money from Ireland.

 

[Phisher]

I think WArren Buffett has the lowest tax rate in his office. lol. Less than his secretary.

And ya, companies like Apple don't even pay taxes. They used the Irish thing for a while. Both the EU and US want that tax money from Ireland.

Multinationals like Apple deliberately hold cash offshore to avoid paying taxes. Once the amount of money that's out of US gets ridiculous, they "negotiate" with the government to bring it back.

The last time that they got a tax holiday on foreign revenue was the American Job Creation Act in 2004.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jobs_Creation_Act_of_2004

Very little of the repatriated money went to capital investment. Most was paid out in dividends to shareholders.

https://www.economist.com/news/unit...reholders-cheque-cutting-taxes-profits-earned


They're about to run the same con again.

 

[Lead]

It should be obvious for people, but there’s a big math problem here.

Let’s say you make $50k a year. You would be very disciplined and doing well if you saved and invested 15% of that, but 10% would be great too. But if you’re a high income earner, say make a million a year, you can save almost all of it if you wanted, but can live lavishly if you saved 25% of it. If you’re a billionaire you probably have 99.9% of it invested! So no, if you’re a regular guy and you invest you’re still not coming out even with high income earners. And obviously there’s compounding,,,

I’m not the type who’s going to talk badly about rich people and I know many and they’re patriotic too. We just need to be honest about what’s going on here and high income earners/high net worth folks have huge advantages. It’s ok to admit it!

You're an idiot.

Ahh, the War Room....

 

[Rematch]

Isnt the stock market one of the instruments that have helped create this wealth gap? It is said that financial institutions like wall street is just transferring money from the poor to the already wealthy. It has been stated by even insiders. If you or more people invest, it will just make the top 1% more money. Now you and other small time investors will probably still make more than the average joe who is not savvy into the markets, but you will never catch the big boys. That is a pipe dream.

Why is it necessary to catch them?

 

[TheFirstEMP]

I wonder if these billionaires miss their annual Clinton foundation donations. Ah, the good old days.

 

[Cocrehamster]

 

[nefti]

Automation will get rid of most jobs.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Why is it necessary to catch them?

The income gap getting to large I believe will be a huge problem for fabric of just our country or at least the kind we want. If too little people have too much of the money, and assets, they will have too much power over us. We are suppose to be all about merit, but how can those few gain so much then? We cannot all be a bunch of morons.