Boxing strategy in a mma/muay thai fight context

[Borass]

Hello everyone,

In a mma or muay thai context, i would like to discuss about strategies for a boxer to deal with a kicking/kneeing specialist. As “boxer” i mean a fighter who highly emphase punches. I know that my question is very general and “it depends” but may you have advices ?

 

[SandisLL]

Find out Buakaw knockout on Youtube, Buakaw vs Sato.
From old times kicboxing; Benny Urquidez. Karatekas in Japan, thanks to kicboxing and Mr Urquidez find out, how boxing technique works in kickboxing.

 

[shincheckin]

Hello everyone,

In a mma or muay thai context, i would like to discuss about strategies for a boxer to deal with a kicking/kneeing specialist. As “boxer” i mean a fighter who highly emphase punches. I know that my question is very general and “it depends” but may you have advices ?

your question is hard to answer, is this a MT fight? a MMA fight? Is the boxer a boxer, or a MMA fighter that likes to box?

The boxer would need to deal with the kicks by closing the distance, and he would need to deal with knees by clinching him and tying him up. But the clinch is where the knees happen, so you would literally have to bear hug the guy so he cant knee at all. Pretty much, unless the boxers hands are wayyyyyy better than the other guys, hes pretty much fucked.

 

[StopDucking]

I've always been amazed by the way Samart and Somrak managed to outbox the crap out of their opponents. Guess the optimal way to deal with muay thay is to learn both boxing and muay thai.

Otherwise, you can always spam punches to try and take them out early before they chop your legs off (didn't work out in this case though):

 

[Borass]

your question is hard to answer, is this a MT fight? a MMA fight? Is the boxer a boxer, or a MMA fighter that likes to box?

I mean a fighter that likes to box, who is not really good in the kicking game and who is looking to bring the fight where he is the better at.

 

[j123]

I mean a fighter that likes to box, who is not really good in the kicking game and who is looking to bring the fight where he is the better at.

It's a bit tougher in a MT contest than MMA

In MT boxing only does well at the mid range whereas long (kick) and clinch is dominated by MT peeps.

That being said, ring cutting and angles are your friend. Most likely the MT guy is going from be taller, just the way the sport is. Dudes try to get as light as possible while maintaining height

For MMA, it's better if the "boxer" can grapple. It's also why boxing and wrestling go very hand in hand in MMA.

It's easier said than done, it's something you have to find yourself in practice

 

[SandisLL]

I think, for MMA boxer must be good in grappling.
Don't know how for MMA, for so called self defense training worked this;
Provoke him to do certain kick. Preferably Ushiro Geri, however with Mawashi Geri, even Ura Mawashi Geri this is doable, I think with lesser success %.
1. variant; in etap of kick execution kick his supporting leg. If doable, of course./ hard to drill this with live partner/.
2. variant; block kick & catch leg to recieve your uke, now you will be tori. Throv him and apply leg lock or do something else.
From my point of view with Ushiro Geri easier.
Here is important do all this quickly!, if necessery also step in kick distance closer, change your height etc.
I don't mentioned brutal variants, because they not allowed in sport.

Of course, I know, that it is not easy and drillings with sparring partner are core for success.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Hello everyone,

In a mma or muay thai context, i would like to discuss about strategies for a boxer to deal with a kicking/kneeing specialist. As “boxer” i mean a fighter who highly emphase punches. I know that my question is very general and “it depends” but may you have advices ?

The strategy is-- you train in a dedicated boxing gym and study boxing until you are in the upper 50% of the class or better. Make sure to focus on proper technique, footwork, and movement and you'll do better than most of the guys there. You don't have to quit your MMA or MT or Kickboxing class, you can take it at the same time.

When you have that skill and you have proven it by sparring and doing well in the class, you will spot subtleties in your mma or kickboxing class-- the way someone is standing, their posture, their weight distribution, their lean, their whole body language. Your brain will SHOW you what things are open for each person and how to attack and when you hit them they will have no idea how you can keep doing it over and over-- you will have a very good instinct for it. Because they have not learned the art of judgement of subtleties, they have not practiced it, the mechanics are not something they can come up with a good plan for because plans require an accurate understanding of the variables at play and their significance.

Sorry to say it, but the subtleties of boxing as a discipline are almost as different to kickboxing as striking in general is to grappling in general. It's best to combine both in both cases where the ruleset allows for an incredible leap in effectiveness.

 

[SandisLL]

Good advice for long term.
Experienced fighters does false telegraphs a lot, this also should be learned.
I wrote about drillings/ sparrings for take down when opponent kicks, i forgot some important things.
For example, if in drillings with gradually increased speed is done with one kick type, then drilled second kick type, then with third kick type. If okey, then sparring without scenario, partner do all three kicks types, you read what he do and defend, evade or defend and take him down or ... recieve kick.

 

[Judoka1532]

hit and don't get hit

 

[shincheckin]

To win a MT fight with your boxing is going to be totally different than winning an MMA fight with your boxing.

To win a MT fight with your boxing, you would need to be a much better boxer than your opponent, and at least equal skill in the clinch. You can take away their kicks if they are a better kicker than you by not fighting in kicking range, meaning closing the distance and being too close for them to kick, essentially staying in "hand" range as much as possible, however doing this will lead to the clinch quickly, and if the guy is much better at clinching than you, your pretty much fucked. The other option would be to stay outside his kicking range, which would take away the kicks, but not allow you to utilize the boxing your want to use.

For MMA, repeat all of the above, and then factor in takedowns, ground fighting, etc.

 

[Fire of Youth]

Lower your body weight and point your elbows into the muscles of your opponents leg. Bam, they don't want to kick or knee you anymore.

 

[shincheckin]

Lower your body weight and point your elbows into the muscles of your opponents leg. Bam, they don't want to kick or knee you anymore.

I think this works in theory but not in real life, it might work for a knee or 2 but doing so puts in you a bad position, as your hands are in tight and your weight down, hunched over a bit. Easy to get control of the head, spin or sweep them, elbow, straight knee, etc. for MT that is. For MMA I suppose its fine cause you can catch the knee and takedown.

this is garbage though dude, the last thing you want to do when someone has the plum on you is bend over like this so you can block the knee with your arm, lol. If the guy knows how to knee, you could be blocking with both arms and the knee is still going to smash straight through like nothing.

 

[j123]

Lower your body weight and point your elbows into the muscles of your opponents leg. Bam, they don't want to kick or knee you anymore.

?? Wut

 

[Uchi Mata]

your question is hard to answer, is this a MT fight? a MMA fight? Is the boxer a boxer, or a MMA fighter that likes to box?

The boxer would need to deal with the kicks by closing the distance, and he would need to deal with knees by clinching him and tying him up. But the clinch is where the knees happen, so you would literally have to bear hug the guy so he cant knee at all. Pretty much, unless the boxers hands are wayyyyyy better than the other guys, hes pretty much fucked.

This I don't agree with. If you're wanting to box, you need to get really good at keeping the fight in punching range where it's both hard to kick and hard to knee effectively. You need to get really good at shucking off the clinch, because the first thing a Nak Muay is going to do against a boxer getting inside his kicking range is clinch. If you can consistently deny the clinch and land punches off the break from the clinch attempts you can box up a good clincher, but it's obviously quite hard (or we'd see it more in Muay Thai). But a good jab and good angle footwork can make it much harder on the clincher to tie you up.

 

[shincheckin]

This I don't agree with. If you're wanting to box, you need to get really good at keeping the fight in punching range where it's both hard to kick and hard to knee effectively. You need to get really good at shucking off the clinch, because the first thing a Nak Muay is going to do against a boxer getting inside his kicking range is clinch. If you can consistently deny the clinch and land punches off the break from the clinch attempts you can box up a good clincher, but it's obviously quite hard (or we'd see it more in Muay Thai). But a good jab and good angle footwork can make it much harder on the clincher to tie you up.

its ok to disagree, but I would have to say:

Punching range is clinching range, if you can punch a guy, you can grab/clinch a guy. Staying in punching range, without getting clinched, or falling out of punching range and back into kicking range is quite difficult. angle footwork opens you up to kicks. Punching range is also knee range. People tend to forget that you dont have to be clinching to knee.

My last fight, I was horribly out of shape and took the fight on 2 weeks notice, my leg was also injured prior to the fight and I could not kick, well I could kick but it hurt really bad, ( i still kicked a little) because of this I was forced to rely on my boxing, and I won the fight with my boxing. I would say that I felt I was a better puncher, kicker, and clincher than my opponent though, I was just gassed and injured. I won the fight by basically "running" or using footwork, and boxing with some big shots, and then tying up.

 

[Borass]

I Agree with shinchecking. Punching range is also kneeing and clinching range. I know that in a mma perspective, muay thai plum is not a good idea against an opponent with average wrestling/judo background but in a MT Context, low kicks and knees give a really hardtime to a boxer...

 

[OttomanTrenches]

More tactics than strategy, but from the few Muay Thai classes I've taken (I'm more a boxer), slipping/head movement is discouraged. It's a lot riskier in a non-boxing environment since you can move your head straight into a kick/knee. That removes a big portion of the defense a boxer is used to using, so it's something else you would need to be ready for.

 

[John Schultz]

really informative

 

[Fire of Youth]

I think this works in theory but not in real life, it might work for a knee or 2 but doing so puts in you a bad position, as your hands are in tight and your weight down, hunched over a bit. Easy to get control of the head, spin or sweep them, elbow, straight knee, etc. for MT that is. For MMA I suppose its fine cause you can catch the knee and takedown.

this is garbage though dude, the last thing you want to do when someone has the plum on you is bend over like this so you can block the knee with your arm, lol. If the guy knows how to knee, you could be blocking with both arms and the knee is still going to smash straight through like nothing.

You obviously don't understand what I mean. You don't hunch over. If you did, then yes you could be pulled around during the clinch and in a bad position to take knees on your guard. The guy in the video is doing it wrong. If he softened his knees and steps forward to bring his hips under his shoulders and maintains his normal tight guard, then you are balanced, with strong supporting body structure, and all by using less energy.
I said "lower your body weight", from the legs, like a squat. Your elbows are already spiked from your tight guard. You just need to intercept their kick/knee with it. Keep your elbows close to you in a tight guard and use your body pivoting and foot work to move your elbows into the coming attack. There is no reaching forward. From this position, all you have to do is keep your legs under you when they try to throw you around in the clinch; you maintain balance. Furthermore, you get under their weight thus you are in a good position to get your hands underneath their elbows and then stand up taller. You get their hands and elbows out of the way so you don't need to fear them. You also just need to walk forward to take their balance, because of your lower centre of gravity. Once they are off balance you don't really need to fear the knees or legs. They can still get you with legs/knees but they wont have anywhere near as much power.

Now low kicks are the main problem to doing this. Your lower body weight makes it near impossible to check the kick. You pretty much have to rely on turning your knee into the low kick. But if they are chopping down at a sharper angle then that hurts anyway.But every technique has a counter.