Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu no Longer Effective

[CFGroup]

I'm curious, how far did you go in TKD and Judo, and have you ever competed in BJJ at any level? How about boxing? In any case I remember in another thread you saying that Mauy Thai was too brutal and you didn't like getting kicked in the leg. I don't really mind getting kicked in the leg in sparring but ive never competed in it either.

I've competed in both judo and BJJ at the beginner level and to be honest they are about the same level of risk for injury and pain.

Yeah, I said I don't like the tactical approach of MT. Taking tons of damage to inflict slightly more is illogical. Think sniper not reg infantry. The point of Martial theory and application is to inflict maximum damage while sustaining minimal. MT doesn't fit that phylosophy in my opinion. I have a ton of respect which I've stated many times for MT because of it's intensity but if I'm not getting paid...Getting paid well to sustain that level of damage, it's not for me. Plus I'm happy to be hitting my 40's with all my marbles and a handful of training related surgeries.

As I said in that post, I'm just relaying what other guys I've trained with have said. Taking 10 years of breakfalls and competing and taking 10 years of risk of concussions is more than BJJ.

I know BJJ'rs are starting to see that the world caught on and can neutralize a ton of their bag with good TDD.

I cross trained in BJJ some years back and even with rolling with purple belts if I landed on top, I could hold them off of any effectiveness with just pinning, stalling and keeping my center balanced over them. Of course BB's would tap me but only after they could find a way to get to the ground. Most have little throwing game. Welcome to the world of holes in your favorite martial art.

A lot farther than beginners comp, but just national ranking 2 years in a row for winning a bronze and silver back in the late 90's

I don't think training more than 15% on the ground is useful if your talking about protecting yourself. And more than that, I like speed and moving fast. Just my preference I've always been a speed demon.

 

[rmongler]

Everyone knows wrestling is the best anyways ツ

 

[CFGroup]

You sound small. If you're 250+ pounds, Judo is the most painful martial art of them all.

LOL just tipping under 210 this week from 219 at my first doctors consult.

That's with no running and no training other than bike riding and eating like a fucking rabbit!

I was a black belt at the age of 13... my country is really heavy on tkd.

my arrogance is based on experience, yours not so dont pretend you know what a high bjj guy looks like, your get turn nto a pretzel before you even open your big ass mouth, rambo.

I would love you to stop by atos and see how much of a puss they are

I guess you could just aikido the shit out of that bunch of pussys right?

aikido works, all bjj guys are cans compared to tkd guys, whats next? tai chi is the shit?

And I was champion Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwich eating champ at 13, LOL!

Come on dude anything before competing with the big dogs is a joke...

But so cute, LOL!

 

[BJJ_Rage]

LOL just tipping under 210 this week from 219 at my first doctors consult.

That's with no running and no training other than bike riding and eating like a fucking rabbit!


And I was champion Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwich eating champ at 13, LOL!

Come on dude anything before competing with the big dogs is a joke...

But so cute, LOL!

well, its fucking ridiculous, but that ihow tkd is, and im quite sure my country isnt the only one giving bb to 13 years old kids...

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

that's like saying toilet paper is ineffective now. both statements are full of shit.

 

[CFGroup]

well, its fucking ridiculous, but that ihow tkd is, and im quite sure my country isnt the only one giving bb to 13 years old kids...

Rage is like...

I won the soap box derby at 13...

I know fuck all about Nascar

The fact that you even tried to use pee wee Jr strip mall martial arts as a claim as an authority of world level training knowledge is embarrassing!

WTF dude just quit while you're ahead!

LOL!

 

[liuk3]

IMHO, judo was pretty brutal...

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Rage is like...

I won the soap box derby at 13...

I know fuck all about Nascar

The fact that you even tried to use pee wee Jr strip mall martial arts as a claim as an authority of world level training knowledge is embarrassing!

WTF dude just quit while you're ahead!

LOL!

You really Over 40? Please don't tell me tou are...

 

[CFGroup]

You really Over 40? Please don't tell me tou are...

Sheesh....Guess I never grow up...

But I got past this...

We're all combat kids at heart...

Rage is like...

"I'm so angry my fingers can't type 'too' right"

"I gotta get back at him cause I hate being punked"

LOL!

Calm down take some breaths U can do it...

Yeah...I know maturity takes time!

LOL!

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Sheesh....Guess I never grow up...

But I got past this...

We're all combat kids at heart...

Rage is like...

"I'm so angry my fingers can't type 'too' right"

"I gotta get back at him cause I hate being punked"

LOL!

Calm down take some breaths U can do it...

Yeah...I know maturity takes time!

LOL!

maturity takes time, it seems for some never comes.

 

[Thycidides]

Yeah, I said I don't like the tactical approach of MT. Taking tons of damage to inflict slightly more is illogical. Think sniper not reg infantry. The point of Martial theory and application is to inflict maximum damage while sustaining minimal. MT doesn't fit that phylosophy in my opinion. I have a ton of respect which I've stated many times for MT because of it's intensity but if I'm not getting paid...Getting paid well to sustain that level of damage, it's not for me. Plus I'm happy to be hitting my 40's with all my marbles and a handful of training related surgeries.

As I said in that post, I'm just relaying what other guys I've trained with have said. Taking 10 years of breakfalls and competing and taking 10 years of risk of concussions is more than BJJ.

How is judo better than BJJ because it leads to more injuries but TKD is preferable to MT because it is easy on the body?

I notice you didn't mention getting injured in TKD, instead you mention break falls and concussions from judo . Well I breakfall in BJJ too and get thrown in local bjj tournaments. The two really aren't that different in terms of risk of injury or pain.

 

[Phr3121]

I stayed on topic the entire time. Didn't insult you (I DID call you the new T-bone but that was in jest), and I posted not only counter-points to your arguments, but also posted examples where I think BJJ falls down. You pretty much ignored all of it. The thread started out as "BJJ no longer effective" (and could actually have been an interesting discussion), but you quickly moved it to "street vs sport", then to "TKD is great", then to Yair vs Frankie, and now I'm really not even sure what we're talking about ...Some people got a little aggressive, but so did you, and you're the one flinging the topic all over the place. I seem to be saying this to a lot of people on here lately, but, I'm not sure why you're so upset ...

I read what you posted, it was a good piece. Yes the thread branched out like you said, but revolved around the original post of BJJ, TKD, and the UFC. I don’t insult people unless I’m insulted, but yes, I’m guilty as charged. I hate playing that game but decided to do it anyway. I don’t think I’m flinging the topic all over the place. It’s the nature of any thread. I did not bring up Bruce Lee, but even he came up. I’ve said time and again BJJ and TKD have its pros-and-cons. Cross training, in my opinion, is the way to go. Definitely don’t want to go to the ground if I can avoid it. Have you ever landed on cement or asphalt? If your head lands there, you are done. Landing on the mat is totally different, but it is the safe way to learn without injuries. Regardless of the author in the article, I though he brought out some good points. Not sure what makes you think I’m a white belt in BJJ. Someone already asked me that. My opinion is, good luck trying to put a trained fighter, or a TKD practitioner on the ground, if they are worth their salt it is not going to happen, than what? Also, do you think they will fight clean? Just reviewing the UFC foul list. Some of those fouls where put there to give grapplers the advantage.

"Wanted to discuss and argue the benefits of ground vs on-your-feet fighting. How 50% of UFC fights no longer end in grappling or the ground." Do you have a source for that statistic.

Just what I read and watch, it may be off by 10%.

In any case I remember in another thread you saying that Mauy Thai was too brutal and you didn't like getting kicked in the leg. I don't really mind getting kicked in the leg in sparring but ive never competed in it either.

Muay Thai kicks to the leg (chin) are brutal. It only takes about 3 or 4 and you’ll be limping your way through a fight.

 

[Phr3121]

BJJ Black Belt’s Point Of View: Why Jiu-Jitsu Is Not Suitable For Street Fighting

Florent Luccioni is an important member of the French Jiu-Jitsu community. He has been training BJJ for 15 years and has spent years training in Brazil. Luccioni also teaches Jiu-Jitsu and self defense to the French Police.

Link: http://www.bjjee.com/articles/bjj-b...iu-jitsu-is-not-suitable-for-street-fighting/

 

[NateTx4112]

Who the fuck actually takes martial arts for street fighting? 1-2 years in and you are good enough to handle yourself against untrained guys. After that it's all for fun, sport, staying in shape, the brother (sister)hood of the sport.

If you guys are still getting into fights at your ages, you ought to seriously take a look at yourself and what kind of fuck up you are to be getting into random confrontations with people and make better life choices.

 

[jack36767]

You know, while there are many criticisms one can file about Joe Rogan, both legitimate and completely stupid. One cannot deny he actually trained full contact TKD as well as bjj and kickboxing. I can't find the video because I don't have wifi at work. But Rogan has extensively talked about how when he started kickboxing after years of near Olympic level TKD.. he got fucked up at first because TKD barely or doesn't at all have realistic punching included. So someone who had at least rudimentary understanding of kicks and more importantly kicking distance but also knew how to punch and defend punches pretty much had their way with him at first with fundamentals.. until he.. dun dun duunn "cross-trained". Then once he had that base of fundamental "simple" kickboxing he could wheelkick peoples heads off

Once again bringing up the steak and potatoes vs caviar analogy.. which is somewhat simplifying it.. but not not by much. Which you still don't have an answer to.

As far as the fouls in mma and da streets.. dude any professional UFC fighter would fuck up the average thug in a street fight.. the same way a veteran soldier would fuck up gangbangers in a firefight.

It never ceases to amaze me the obsession and snobbery of mostly suburban people about "self defense", and the supposed intellectual superiority technique of "eastern" martial arts that wear 17th century Japanese peasant garb..

 

[jack36767]

Who the fuck actually takes martial arts for street fighting? 1-2 years in and you are good enough to handle yourself against untrained guys. After that it's all for fun, sport, staying in shape, the brother (sister)hood of the sport.

If you guys are still getting into fights at your ages, you ought to seriously take a look at yourself and what kind of fuck up you are to be getting into random confrontations with people and make better life choices.

But bro, I'm a suburban dude or a hipster with the money to pay for bjj and want to feel manly and to think I could survive on da streets. And shrouding mostly male comradeship, masculinity and combat/violence in eastern mysticism, Japanese peasant garb and fancy terms like honor and martial arts way and following a sensia make me feel superior to the mma fighters who are just "athletes" and "brutes" and dissembling the violent dominance aspect of it keeps me from quitting and paying. And I buy into the overemphasizing and culty way "family" is emphasized to make me not feel awkward about being a grown man giving da sensai so much adulation and power. I makes me feel so tough and awesome to know I'm ready for da streets.

Do I want to acknowledge that I can't claim Bjj's superiority or magic powers in fighting anymore because fighters cross-train and are the type of people that would have been knights or soldiers during the muscle powered era of combat and that their evil athleticism would have helped them kill me faster? Nah, instead I'll talk about da streets and want a ruleset with unlimited time that's in its own way just as unrealistic and arbitrary to real fighting as mma rules

Is my sarcasm high? Yes. But that also seems to be the type of student that schools that hyper focus on"self defense" rather than just including it in the curriculum with everything else seems to breed.

 

[HangNail]

Who the fuck actually takes martial arts for street fighting? 1-2 years in and you are good enough to handle yourself against untrained guys. After that it's all for fun, sport, staying in shape, the brother (sister)hood of the sport.

If you guys are still getting into fights at your ages, you ought to seriously take a look at yourself and what kind of fuck up you are to be getting into random confrontations with people and make better life choices.

But how else am I going to justify the years of my life wasted watching Kung fu movies, cleaning my sifu's car and carrying a snobby attitude towards those "brutish pit fighters" if not by fantasizing about an extremely unlikely, anime inspired street fighting scenario?

 

[Phr3121]

Don’t want to spend years on the mat learning a Martial Art or street self-defense, I would recommend the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Women Empowered Pink Belt Qualification Course. Yeah, I know, I’m going to get laughed at, but all essential street fighting techniques are there. I don’t think men can take it, but I’m sure they do have a seminar for men. I know it sounds silly but that is exactly what the British SAS is teaching their soldiers. Very effective. What Helio Gracie wanted to create with BJJ was a self-defense art for the weak individual.

Link: https://www.gracieuniversity.com/Course.aspx?enc=m14xgQSRmYx8wsWG8WThBw==

 

[Phr3121]

Who the fuck actually takes martial arts for street fighting?

...ahh, I do. Why else? Not to start fights but to learn to defend myself and others who may need help. Can't help it if I'm in public and some drunk decides to mouth off or throw punches. Even worst when family, women, and children are involved. Some cities here in the United States are certainly not as peaceful as others and now with crime and racial tensions rising you have to be on the lookout.

Grand Master Helio Gracie's definition of a blue belt is: "Someone who can defend themselves against a larger, stronger, more athletic attacker in a 'real' street fight situation, and as such understands and has learned the core techniques which would be essential in giving you the ability/strategy to do just that."

Here is a rare video of Helio Gracie and his philosophy, and probably one of the last before the old man passed away. He is not at all happy with the aspects of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in the UFC. Not sure how to do all that high tech video editing, but the first minute is what is important.

Link: https://www.gracieuniversity.com/Instructor.aspx

 

[NateTx4112]

...ahh, I do. Why else? Not to start fights but to learn to defend myself and others who may need help. Can't help it if I'm in public and some drunk decides to mouth off or throw punches. Even worst when family, women, and children are involved. Some cities here in the United States are certainly not as peaceful as others and now with crime and racial tensions rising you have to be on the lookout.

I live in a city where I'm in the minority. I don't put myself in situations around drunk people that mouth off and if I am around drunks mouthing off it's easy to defuse the situation. Maybe I'm just a really "old" 33 year old but unless some guy is imminently threatening my wife I could give a fuck less what someone is saying. I'm not going to engage and just ignore it.

I carry myself with confidence and respect, but in the 10 years of training I've only had to "use" BJJ once and it was to restrain someone else who was in a confrontation. Never me who initiated any of. First time was after 18 months of training and was incredibly easy to control them surprisingly.