Economy Brexit has completely failed for UK, say clear majority of Britons – poll

[SandisLL]

The eu literally did nothing. The UK left and now don't get benefits from the common market. That all.

This and promised saviour against immigrants didn't had happened, pretty opposite, number of immigrants had increased seriously, no joke here.
A. Short term workers in " essential " niches based on short term contracts. Best example here fruits pickers from Moldova, Ukr etc....
B. Skilled immigrants with education and experience still are getting visas and permits and are continuing to push locals from office type jobs....realpolitik.
C. Immigrants investing in business are doing the same as before Brexit...

Yes, brexit might had helped to reduce number of euro origin dishwashers but in no case number of chiefs and specialists in offices.

 

[Barteh]

What specifics are informing your thinking here?

I'm not ruling out a bit of shenanigans on the EU's part, as there probably was a degree of reluctance, but what outright examples are there of the EU punishing the UK in a manner that otherwise makes no sense?

A clear example that comes to mind is the long lines at airports. Lots of first world countries have arrangement between them allowing for people to visit without needing a visa and allowing easy entry.

Apparently they're discussing it now it seems clear to me that there was an intentional delay to make a point. Feels to me like the EU wants to make the point that it's either all or nothing with them.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

Propaganda

 

[SandisLL]

Completely delusional take. I expect my country to make beneficial trade agreements and all others kind of beneficial arrangements with other countries when it's on my best interest. In this case my country, or rather these unelected bureaucrats in the EU who represent me, are deliberately hurting us to try and make an example out of the UK.

The EU and all of its countries don't have a responsibility towards the UK, they have one towards their own people. And they're failing massively. Sadly they'll probably last a few more decades before we see a full collapse.

Such talks about collapse I had to read 32+ years...since I was small kid ...
Sorry dreamer.

 

[SandisLL]

What specifics are informing your thinking here?

I'm not ruling out a bit of shenanigans on the EU's part, as there probably was a degree of reluctance, but what outright examples are there of the EU punishing the UK in a manner that otherwise makes no sense?

In 2008/2009 th crisis U.K as part of EU and with their own currency had option to weasel out from this by allowing pound to drop in value and with this managed to boost export to EU. Approx the same like Poland did.

 

[LoneStalker]

It was always clear from the start that the EU wanted to punish the UK as much as they could to make an example out of them and deter other nations from doing the same.

I'm sorry but this is not correct.
The UK expected that they would leave the EU but keep the benefits. Now the EU treats the UK like any other country outside of the club. Now britons even complain about the queues to cross the Chunnel, and what were expecting? All those perfect spanish oranges, french cheeses, italian wines and greek avocados that everyone was used to buy in british supermarkets were available because trade arrangements sealed under the EU. You want now a nice greek avocado? Then the UK must negotiate new trade rules.
The UK is still part of NATO so Cameron was in Brussels few weeks ago and the ice around him was evident from two miles away. The UK still has a massive presence in Brussels, but is treated like that weird uncle that you have to chat with during Boxing Day lunch.

 

[Barteh]

I'm sorry but this is not correct.
The UK expected that they would leave the EU but keep the benefits. Now the EU treats the UK like any other country outside of the club. Now britons even complain about the queues to cross the Chunnel, and what were expecting? All those perfect spanish oranges, french cheeses, italian wines and greek avocados that everyone was used to buy in british supermarkets were available because trade arrangements sealed under the EU. You want now a nice greek avocado? Then the UK must negotiate new trade rules.
The UK is still part of NATO so Cameron was in Brussels few weeks ago and the ice around him was evident from two miles away. The UK still has a massive presence in Brussels, but is treated like that weird uncle that you have to chat with during Boxing Day lunch.

Exactly. And my entire point is that the EU is being difficult in these negotiations or aren't even taking a seat at the table on some issues to make an example out of the UK. There's one thing you're missing when you mention the UK wants to keep the benefits. The EU would enjoy those benefits as well, so they're turning down benefits to their own detriment to set an example.

 

[SandisLL]

Exactly. And my entire point is that the EU is being difficult in these negotiations or aren't even taking a seat at the table on some issues to make an example out of the UK. There's one thing you're missing when you mention the UK wants to keep the benefits. The EU would enjoy those benefits as well, so they're turning down benefits to their own detriment to set an example.

I don't think that EU needs any " benefits " from U.K in means of trade or finances.
Once they managed to weasel out from crisis because they managed to launch pounds printing machine earlier.
Next such chance to weasel out like in 2008/2009 th EU will not allow.

 

[Andy Capp]

Should what?

Why should the EU make any effort whatsoever to make trade with the UK work in favor of the UK after the UK elected to go ahead with Brexit?

I recall it being made abundantly clear to the UK that there was no going back from that. Pan elucidated the point beautifully in this post,

It was the great flaw with the Brexit argument. That they could leave the EU but still reap the benefits.

When reality hit, people call the EU "mean" for not doing the UK any favors. But the UK didn't do the EU any favors by pulling out. They hurt a lot of companies and workers who were working in the UK. And the UK did it precisely because they thought the EU was bad for them. It's inexplicable that they thought they could give the EU a big middle finger and then have the EU still bend over to help them.

Indeed, I have no wish to gloat about this but the UK did it to themselves getting behind the likes of Boris "Fuckstick" Johnson.

I had high hopes back then populist movements in North America and the UK would fizzle due to the clear potential for massive damage. But they went "full retard"--for lack of a better term only, sadly.

 

[BobsyaUncle]

Peter Zeihan is talking about the EU falling apart within a decade so who knows, we might end up looking like trailblazers when all is said and done.

 

[Cajun]

Why should the EU make any effort whatsoever to make trade with the UK work in favor of the UK after the UK elected to go ahead with Brexit?

I recall it being made abundantly clear to the UK that there was no going back from that. Pan elucidated the point beautifully in this post,

Indeed, I have no wish to gloat about this but the UK did it to themselves getting behind the likes of Boris "Fuckstick" Johnson.

I had high hopes back then populist movements in North America and the UK would fizzle due to the clear potential for massive damage. But they went "full retard"--for lack of a better term only, sadly.

Because they were always trading partners before the EU. The EU votes to let members in and they penalize those out. Should be a free flow as usual imo. Maybe a separate agreement.

 

[Limeade]

Exactly. And my entire point is that the EU is being difficult in these negotiations or aren't even taking a seat at the table on some issues to make an example out of the UK. There's one thing you're missing when you mention the UK wants to keep the benefits. The EU would enjoy those benefits as well, so they're turning down benefits to their own detriment to set an example.

Can you tell me more about these negotiations positions? I honestly don't know much about the issues.

I always wanted to spend time in England. So much history in the midlands and the North. What's it like in cities such as Leeds, Birmingham and Liverpool?

 

[Siver!]

Can you tell me more about these negotiations positions? I honestly don't know much about the issues.

I always wanted to spend time in England. So much history in the midlands and the North. What's it like in cities such as Leeds, Birmingham and Liverpool?

All those cities are great.

They're also big cities, so all the normal narratives prevail about dodgy areas and crime and whatever.

Not hard to have an awesome time in any of them, though.

Take in some sport, great food, good night life if you want it.

Leeds and Liverpool would be my picks, though.

Loads of countryside and heritage out about though if you leave the cities.

 

[deise69]

Exactly. And my entire point is that the EU is being difficult in these negotiations or aren't even taking a seat at the table on some issues to make an example out of the UK. There's one thing you're missing when you mention the UK wants to keep the benefits. The EU would enjoy those benefits as well, so they're turning down benefits to their own detriment to set an example.

The UK were told 8 years ago what it could expect and chose it's "Red LInes" anyway. They have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Barteh]

The UK were told 8 years ago what it could expect and chose it's "Red LInes" anyway. They have no one to blame but themselves.

Oh I do agree with that they knew. The EU made it perfectly clear they wouldn't play along.

 

[PBAC]

Exactly. And my entire point is that the EU is being difficult in these negotiations or aren't even taking a seat at the table on some issues to make an example out of the UK. There's one thing you're missing when you mention the UK wants to keep the benefits. The EU would enjoy those benefits as well, so they're turning down benefits to their own detriment to set an example.

The eu has a conferral of power from the member states with regards to the community, aka the common market. When the UK left that conferred duty no longer exists. There is no common market between the UK and eu therfore the eu has no authority to be involved. Its diplomatic branches aren't even made for this. People want to bestow it with forms of power it doesn't have but accused ot of having beforehand and are now throwing a tantrum because they dont have the power to do what they're asking.

So basically the UK blamed the eu of having too much power but are now complaining because the eu doesn't have the power at all.

 

[deise69]

Oh I do agree with that they knew. The EU made it perfectly clear they wouldn't play along.

So the UK knew the consequences of its actions but it's the EU's fault ??? How delusional are you ?

 

[Siver!]

The UK were told 8 years ago what it could expect and chose it's "Red LInes" anyway. They have no one to blame but themselves.

Throw in Pacific nations and Australia/New Zealand.

We've landed those 'key' deals already!

 

[ShadBo]

Exactly. And my entire point is that the EU is being difficult in these negotiations or aren't even taking a seat at the table on some issues to make an example out of the UK. There's one thing you're missing when you mention the UK wants to keep the benefits. The EU would enjoy those benefits as well, so they're turning down benefits to their own detriment to set an example.

So your position is that the UK should still enjoy all the benefits of EU membership without the actual membership.

And you had the balls to tell someone else they have a delusional take. Unbelievable.

 

[Hdfi]

I don't trust this poll.