Social Can homeless people be fined for sleeping outside? A rural Oregon city asks the US Supreme Court

[Sinister]

So you’re suggesting that every homeless person in tents is just down on his luck, not that the majority are the ones stealing and using drugs, which are illegal, damaging property also illegal.

No, I'm not making a blanket contention and I've repeatedly said so. You did, though

 

[Rob Battisti]

Compared with all homeless people, I think that number could and would be very small in the right circumstances, and a much more manageable problem than it is now.

In any event, people often use, "See, that shelter has empty beds," as some excuse to blame homeless people for being homeless when the reason is because people are too afraid to go there.

“In the right circumstances” what does that mean?

What does “too afraid to go there” mean?

What would be adequate shelter accommodations to overcome the “Too afraid to go there?”

 

[avenue94]

Bureaucracy IS government in most cases.

It has to be city by city by here in ATX we have the ability to utilize old hotels or open grounds to build more shelters.

We have an estimated 2500 homeless people in Austin. We could do this if they actually used the funds appropriately.

The mechanism is government, but generally the folks using that mechanism are local residents and interest groups. And yes, I agree that solving homeless is fairly simple (aka we know what needs to be done), just massive in scale and politically popular.

 

[Rob Battisti]

The mechanism is government, but generally the folks using that mechanism are local residents and interest groups. And yes, I agree that solving homeless is fairly simple (aka we know what needs to be done), just massive in scale and politically popular.

The cost is unpalatable if you are to include cost for feeding as well.

 

[avenue94]

The cost is unpalatable if you are to include cost for feeding as well.

I would disagree past the shock factor of citizens who don't understand the scale and actors when it comes to government or social level spending. There's a reason I said Manhattan Project before, that's the kind of effort we need if we want to end the homelessness pandemic quickly given how entrenched the problem is structurally in American society.

 

[Rob Battisti]

I would disagree past the shock factor of citizens who don't understand the scale and actors when it comes to government or social level spending. There's a reason I said Manhattan Project before, that's the kind of effort we need if we want to end the homelessness pandemic quickly given how entrenched the problem is structurally in American society.

Yeah, but if it’s city by city, you’re asking for over a hundred million dollars a year or more. It’s a lot for social spending on what society essentially deems “undesirables”.

There isn’t a big enough net benefit to allocate that funding when we haven’t yet solved so many other issues.

 

[Andy Capp]

“In the right circumstances” what does that mean?

What does “too afraid to go there” mean?

What would be adequate shelter accommodations to overcome the “Too afraid to go there?”

Why are you gish galloping? You don't need to have exact answers to those questions to answer mine.

 

[Sinister]

The cost is unpalatable if you are to include cost for feeding as well.

It's a lot cheaper than leaving them in the streets.

 

[Seano]

Imagine thinking that simply buying housing and food for homeless won't be exploited. Why would I work to buy a home when I can just be given one for contributing nothing?

 

[Rob Battisti]

It's a lot cheaper than leaving them in the streets.

Is it? It’s not. Not even by a long shot.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Imagine thinking that simply buying housing and food for homeless won't be exploited. Why would I work to buy a home when I can just be given one for contributing nothing?

I’d offer 9 months of housing that includes a training program. You can work while in the shelter to offset the costs and eventually get on your feet.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Why are you gish galloping? You don't need to have exact answers to those questions to answer mine.

I’m trying to clarify before I do.

 

[Seano]

I’d offer 9 months of housing that includes a training program. You can work while in the shelter to offset the costs and eventually get on your feet.

Very similar to what I said. A halfway house of sorts.

 

[Andy Capp]

I’m trying to clarify before I do.

Whatever your intent, this is what you're accomplishing:

Edit: in fairness, it's more of an infinite regress, like this,

 

[Rob Battisti]

Whatever your intent, this is what you're accomplishing:

lol I’m having a civil discussion with everyone in here.

 

[Seano]

lol I’m having a civil discussion with everyone in here.

Yeah, its easy in threads like these who really wants to help solve a problem and who is just an angry, contrarian cunt.

 

[Andy Capp]

lol I’m having a civil discussion with everyone in here.

Please see my edit, above.

 

[Andy Capp]

Yeah, its easy in threads like these who really wants to help solve a problem and who is just an angry, contrarian cunt.

Of course, exposing logical fallacies is being a contrarian cunt in your twisted perception of reality. No surprise there.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Please see my edit, above.

I can’t answer what to do with people are afraid to go to a shelter if I don’t know why they are afraid.

 

[Sinister]

Is it? It’s not. Not even by a long shot.

There are astronomical costs associated with leaving homeless people in the streets. From cleanup, to policing, to court costs, to jailing (which is housing them)...and that's on top of ineffective program costs that keep recycling methods that aren't working.

In every place that has done Hosing First, its proven to be cheaper.