Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by nac386, Jan 12, 2018.
GGG won that fight, hands down.
This rematch is thanks to very incompetent judges
you can make a case that golovkin fought conservatively for the first two rounds to gauge the power and strength of canelo and once he realized that alvarez could not hurt him he became aggressive and could start aggressive from the opening bell
also, golovkin was inexplicably head-hunting and going for the ko, not setting up his shots in all likelihood from fear of being on the wrong side of a bad decision, which probably has very little chance of happening in the rematch
Going to this one. I’m best man in my best friends wedding and the options for his bachelor party was GGG/Canelo 2 if it got signed, or Miami if not. Looks like that’s been chosen. Hope it’s in NY. And I hope Canelo gets knocked the fuck out.
Because like PUO3 pointed out, their trajectories are different. Canelo keeps improving, GGG stays the same at this point. No number of days/months/years at this point will ever add enough dimension or make GGG a good enough boxer to outsmart and control Canelo, only his conditioning and workrate kept him in the fight last time out, and Canelo only has one thing to work on, and thats conditioning and carrying the extra weight. He will be the ready by May. He dominated a draw last time, he makes GGG his toy 2nd time out.
I wonder if GGG takes more risks in this one - that’s the adjustment I could see him making, and if he does it could be a real barnstormer.
Can’t wait (again).
Not disagreeing, just saying I'd like to see it there, however impossible that may be.
When I say improvement, I mean adjustments in their gameplans and how they fight. A 35-36 year old won't be something new suddenly. Still, I firmly believe that GGG has the more room to improve in the ring in terms of how he attacks. Canelo, for his own part, can't really change much and asking him to do more of something will be difficult because when GGG is patient and jabbing, he doesn't let his opponent get any traction (hence the significant chunk of the fight in the middle book-ended by the first and last three rounds). Canelo will want to exchange with Golovkin, but can't do that all night, and he will have to take breaks. Every time he takes breaks he loses the rounds. He simply can't do more, he can just be as good as he has already been. He may take more risks and mix it up more, but those things can only happen if he can get past GGG's jab. Canelo took zero risks when GGG was jabbing because he had no way of getting away with an attack because of the Golovkin counter. When he was able to walk inside (look at round 10), then he could get some work done. GGG is slower.
Canelo won't be able to increase his pace, that's the nature of him as a fighter. It always has been. His fast-twich movements and large build will always put a demand on his system. His stamina means he fights in spurts and doesn't put forth much of a sustained effort. That's just his build and body. GGG fights in a more sustained, slow burn, sort of manner.
Notice Canelo only outlanded GGG by 4 power punches (and I saw at least two that Compubox counted that were clear misses, but that's another story). If GGG jabs and then throws to the body, with his right or left uppercut and right uppercut, he can bank more power punches. When he did that, he was being more effective. It was the first three and a last three where his jab was more sporadic and when he was losing rounds more clearly (though not necessarily decisively, it was a good fight).
This is what I mean by more room for improvement. GGG just needs to adjust where he throws and mix up his punch selection (we know that he has shown an ability to do that), and he needs to be more sustained with his jab. Canelo will lose a close decision if that happens because his success came largely when GGG was not jabbing.
We also need to accept that Canelo was used to that kind of fight hype and atmosphere. He walked around the whole time leading up to and during the fight as though he belonged. GGG seemed a bit distracted and absorbed in this atmosphere.
Lastly, and I really saw this by round 3 to 4. Golovkin started to see Canelo's punches better and settled into the fight. His eyes adjusted and that's something that takes a bit if it is new. Canelo was always seeing GGG's punches. Going into the rematch, GGG's eyes won't be taking all that time to adjust again.
This is why I feel that the rematch offers some interesting points. I don't think GGG is a shoe-in to win. In fact, I think the fight is closer than it was the first time. One day GGG's chin might even say "enough's enough." He is 35 going on 36 and I've said this before: a pressure fighter fades earlier in life than a pure boxer. GGG is on borrowed time. A pressure fighter's peak fades after early thirties.
So I can't argue it clearly for one guy or the other, but I do feel that GGG has the more room to improve in how he attacks Canelo. Canelo will offer no surprises, he will just be damn good.
Sorry for the rant lol.
GGG wins even wider this time.He will be used to the build up and adrenaline of the first fight. TBH he looked really tense at the beginning of the first fight and it took him a couple rounds to zone in and do what he usually does, this time he will take control early.
Be careful with what you mean by "keeps improving." I think I know what you mean, but Canelo just gets sharper at what he has already been good at. His deficiencies have not abated. I also don't think that anyone was saying that GGG requires a new dimension to his game. GGG's opportunity lies in his willingness to go back to that amateur background more than anything else. This may sound counter-intuitive but I am in no way mistaken here. GGG looked worse when he tried to brawl Canelo, but he was actualy out-boxing him for large stretches. His silver medal in the Olympics and hundreds of amateur fights get undervalued because he is willing to take a punch and is aggressive, but I encourage next time you re-watch the fight to see how cleanly they hit each other. GGG can get hit, but he doesn't often get hit as cleanly as people think. Just as Jake LaMotta, a man renowned for his chin, was not hit as cleanly and as often as people think. I am not saying that Golovkin is some savant slickster like Pernell Whitaker, but I am saying that just as some pure boxers get criticized for being a soft touch, so too, do some pressure fighters - like Golovkin - get unfairly reduced to being paleolithic brawlers.
The inverse trajectories are a matter of physical decline for Golovkin and improving experience for Canelo, but the approach in the ring allows for "improved performance." Just look at Leo Santa Cruz's rematch to Frampton. A close first fight, but then LSC made some adjustments. He didn't all of a sudden become someone else entirely, he just fought behind a jab and took a step back to remove himself as a target (if you watched the fight, Frampton would catch LSC on that first step in, so LSC took that away by making small steps).
Sorry for the rant. I'm on a roll today lol.
Yeah I think nerves really got to him in that fight. I've never seen him looking so edgy as he was in the build up to that fight. It took him quite a few rounds to loosen up and get himself into the fight. That won't be the case second time around.
Quality write ups even if my opinion differs.
I think Canelo is becoming the better boxer and will make the fine tuning adjustments needed. His defense especially has gotten incredibly sharper every outing. I expect to see Canelo flick the jab out more frequently and go downstairs more to try to slow Golovkin down some (good luck lmao).
Imo, Golovkin wants to prove he can knock Canelo out. Hes too focused trying to take his opponent out and not trying to win rounds and take what comes. That happens in every single one of his fights and I cant see him stopping now. It isnt likely he knocks Canelo out, and vice versa. This will be won by a boxing match more than as a fight.
This is a fair and good point.
Conversely, I think its also fair to say that Canelo might have been cautious to Golovkins power. Now he knows whats coming he could be much more comfortable with it.
I dont think Golovkin ever once was concerned about what Canelo’s power was.
The shit they were landing on each other and just eating for lunch blew my mind lol.
Meh. Not sure why Canelo's team has to be convinced to do a rematch when its Canelo who wants and needs it. GGG kept all his titles, Canelo's the one who failed to win any.
Personally I'm over this match-up. Doesn't interest me in the slightest.
I don't know. I had GGG winning the first one, but I think Canelo is improving and progressing more every fight and may win the rematch. Can't wait to see it again, though. Looking forward to it.
Golovkin will win round 1 and 2 easily.
Canelo will take a 3 round break somewhere, Golovkin will win those.
Thus that's 5 rounds I'd consider in the bag for Canelo as Canelo is a slow starter and he fades in the latter part of the rounds before he enters the championship rounds. Canelo will most likely take the 12th round again.
Golovkin will have to do better than winning rounds only because Canelo's stamina has run thin for a while. Golovkin must win at least 8-4/9-3 to get the decision this time around.
Could a mod put a poll??
I got GGG
In my opinion Canelo has now shown the ability to change his style when ever he wants. He is quicker on his feet. Hopefully he goes to the body even more in a rematch. GGG although amazing looks the same every outing pressure, pressure, pressure. His style has worked for the most part but Canelo is now showing the ability to give you " a different look " and actually box. I got Canelo by split decision in a rematch cuz GGG ain't no bum or bitch.
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