International Catalonia's Rebellion: 170,000 Spaniards in Madrid March Against Amnesty Plan for Catalan Secessionists

[Ruprecht]

Uhm? Hundreds of thousands of pro-unity have taken to the streets (see videos @Arkain2K has posted).

It is just not clear at all there is a majority for secession.

Well no, I don't see protests as a clear indication of political will equivalent to a referendum.
Sure, aside from the referendum, the polls have all been very close.

 

[JDragon]

Well no, I don't see protests as a clear indication of political will equivalent to a referendum.
Sure, aside from the referendum, the polls have all been very close.

This is why it baffles me that you would consider the majority of Catalans that did not want independence as 'apathic' for refusing to legitimize a referendum that was considered illegal by their government.

 

[Ruprecht]

This is why it baffles me that you would consider the majority of Catalans that did not want independence as 'apathic' for refusing to legitimize a referendum that was considered illegal by their government.

I didn't say it was apathetic. Explicitly said it wasn't in fact. When I said "cared enough to vote", I meant they cared enough to vote "yes" despite the fact that it was declared illegal and the heavy handed response from the Spanish authorities. That's a pretty strong indication of political will.
92% of a 43% turnout under those circumstances is a strong showing.
Of course the opposition can refuse to legitimise the question by not participating in the referendum, but I don't think that's really addressing the political question meaningfully. It's just a "non-vote" of confidence in Spanish national authority and the Spanish government's international support.

 

[SaiWa]

New Jersey? Seriously?

ummm yeah... from a total amount of dollar value New Jersey pays one of the highest (6th). For every dollar that goes to the Federal level, New Jersey gets one of the least amount back from that dollar (rated 7th worst). There are no states that rank higher than New Jersey in both categories so we arguably get screwed the most. And that's with the deduction of state and local taxes New Jersey get that the Trump Plan wants to eliminate.

Just you fully understand how lopsided federal tax collection is with some of these states (numbers in 2015):
(6) New Jersey 150+ billions .
(20) Indiana 60 billion
(29) Kansas 27 billion
(40) Mississippi 12 billion
(39) West Virginia $7 billion

We send a shit ton and we get the least back to help New Jersians. We are one of the biggest donor states in the US.

So yeah seriously. From a statistical standpoint we are a sugar daddy for a good amount of states out there.

 

[Rod1]

Thus as long as the kidnapper objects to your freedom, you don't have a right to leave, yes?

Same logic applies to all Catalonians who wish to remain part of Spain.

 

[Rod1]

I didn't say it was apathetic. Explicitly said it wasn't in fact. When I said "cared enough to vote", I meant they cared enough to vote "yes" despite the fact that it was declared illegal and the heavy handed response from the Spanish authorities. That's a pretty strong indication of political will.
92% of a 43% turnout under those circumstances is a strong showing.
Of course the opposition can refuse to legitimise the question by not participating in the referendum, but I don't think that's really addressing the political question meaningfully. It's just a "non-vote" of confidence in Spanish national authority and the Spanish government's international support.

Well its 92% because someone wasnt going to risk get their skulls caved by the spanish police just to vote no.

Specially since the vote was non-binding.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Quebec would be bankrupt complaining about lack of aide shipments from Canada (just like Puerto Rico) if they were allowed to secede. No wonder the Blue Jays left that future ISIS hell hole.

Yeah sure. Just like every small country outside of Luxemburg is bankrupt. Gtfo.

 

[Rematch]

ummm yeah... from a total amount of dollar value New Jersey pays one of the highest (6th). For every dollar that goes to the Federal level, New Jersey gets one of the least amount back from that dollar (rated 7th worst). There are no states that rank higher than New Jersey in both categories so we arguably get screwed the most. And that's with the deduction of state and local taxes New Jersey get that the Trump Plan wants to eliminate.

Just you fully understand how lopsided federal tax collection is with some of these states (numbers in 2015):
(6) New Jersey 150+ billions .
(20) Indiana 60 billion
(29) Kansas 27 billion
(40) Mississippi 12 billion
(39) West Virginia $7 billion

We send a shit ton and we get the least back to help New Jersians. We are one of the biggest donor states in the US.

So yeah seriously. From a statistical standpoint we are a sugar daddy for a good amount of states out there.

That's all well and good, but New fuckin' Jersey shouldn't be looking down their noses at anyone because... Well... It's New Jersey.

The top 10 states people are fleeing:

1. New Jersey
2. Illinois
3. New York
4. Connecticut
5. Kansas
6. Kentucky
7. West Virginia
8. Ohio
9. Utah
10. Pennsylvania

Notice that New Jersey is #1 and there are only 2 southern states on that list.

 

[NaughtyBoy]

Maybe UEFA grant them special Notre Dame-esque status, and just make them a mainstay of Champions league every year.

Whatever that needs to not get Barcelona in Champions contention.

 

[Arkain2K]

Anti-separatist supporters plan big demonstration in Catalonia
Alex Rossi | Saturday 28 October 2017​

Catalonia's Declaration of Independence has caused widespread anger amongst many people in the region who want to remain part of Spain.

Polls suggest unionists make up the majority.

Activists are now organising themselves and calling on all Catalan Spaniards to take to the streets on Sunday.

This sector of Catalonia is often referred to as the 'silent majority'.

They may have been quiet but now they are having to find their voice.

Pro-unity supporters are readying themselves for what they hope will be a massive anti-independence demonstration.

In a small workshop in a suburb of Barcelona they are bundling Catalan and Spanish national flags together; an expression of constitutional unity.

One of the volunteers, Laura Pesqueira, tells me she is angry at how the minority separatist movement has started speaking for the majority.

She said: "More than 60% we don't want independence, there is only 40% that wants this so it's not normal that we suffer this situation."

The fight back against the separatist narrative is being fought everywhere.

On one of Barcelona's main shopping avenues, a pro-Spain Catalan civil rights group is handing out leaflets making the case for a unified Spain.

Ferran Brunet, who's part of the organisation, accuses the independence movement of hijacking the region.

It is not because they are the majority but because they are the best organised and have the loudest voice, he claimed.

Mr Brunet said: "The tradition of Catalonia is of also being in favour of better links with Spain. The tradition of Catalonia is to reform Spain, to modernise Spain it is not against.

"This is something new the separatist movement is the fruit of the last decades but it is not on the tradition of Catalonia."

There are, though, fears of clashes.

Madrid's government building in Barcelona is surrounded - National Police are providing a wall of protection.

But central government is gambling that the suspension of autonomy across the region won't have to last long.

The Spanish Prime Minister, Mariano Rajoy, is hoping the snap election on 21 December will change the dynamic.

The separatists are calling for civil disobedience and general strikes but by holding a poll they now have to either boycott it, or start campaigning.

But Catalonia right now is a very divided place with families, colleagues and neighbours falling out over the Declaration of Independence.

The longer the crisis goes on, of course, the worse those tensions will get.

Madrid is hoping the snap election will give Spain the answer it seeks and bring a rebellious region back into the fold, not through force, but through the power of democracy.

http://news.sky.com/story/anti-separatist-supporters-plan-big-demonstration-in-catalonia-11103413

 

[RockstarChris]

The problem with being the rebellion is that once you win you are the new republic, then people start rebelling against you and you start creating Death Stars to keep the peace.

 

[Goonerview]

War Catalonia!!

I hope they fight for their independence, Trump should recognise them as an independent nation.

The EU are hypocrites again, recognise Kosovo and then stop Catalonia ... f**k the EU and f**k Spain.

 

[Goonerview]

Anti-separatist supporters plan big demonstration in Catalonia
Alex Rossi | Saturday 28 October 2017​

Catalonia's Declaration of Independence has caused widespread anger amongst many people in the region who want to remain part of Spain.

Polls suggest unionists make up the majority.

Activists are now organising themselves and calling on all Catalan Spaniards to take to the streets on Sunday.

This sector of Catalonia is often referred to as the 'silent majority'.

They may have been quiet but now they are having to find their voice.

Pro-unity supporters are readying themselves for what they hope will be a massive anti-independence demonstration.

In a small workshop in a suburb of Barcelona they are bundling Catalan and Spanish national flags together; an expression of constitutional unity.

One of the volunteers, Laura Pesqueira, tells me she is angry at how the minority separatist movement has started speaking for the majority.

She said: "More than 60% we don't want independence, there is only 40% that wants this so it's not normal that we suffer this situation."

The fight back against the separatist narrative is being fought everywhere.

On one of Barcelona's main shopping avenues, a pro-Spain Catalan civil rights group is handing out leaflets making the case for a unified Spain.

Ferran Brunet, who's part of the organisation, accuses the independence movement of hijacking the region.

It is not because they are the majority but because they are the best organised and have the loudest voice, he claimed.

Mr Brunet said: "The tradition of Catalonia is of also being in favour of better links with Spain. The tradition of Catalonia is to reform Spain, to modernise Spain it is not against.

"This is something new the separatist movement is the fruit of the last decades but it is not on the tradition of Catalonia."

There are, though, fears of clashes.

Madrid's government building in Barcelona is surrounded - National Police are providing a wall of protection.

But central government is gambling that the suspension of autonomy across the region won't have to last long.

The Spanish Prime Minister, Mariano Rajoy, is hoping the snap election on 21 December will change the dynamic.

The separatists are calling for civil disobedience and general strikes but by holding a poll they now have to either boycott it, or start campaigning.

But Catalonia right now is a very divided place with families, colleagues and neighbours falling out over the Declaration of Independence.

The longer the crisis goes on, of course, the worse those tensions will get.

Madrid is hoping the snap election will give Spain the answer it seeks and bring a rebellious region back into the fold, not through force, but through the power of democracy.

http://news.sky.com/story/anti-separatist-supporters-plan-big-demonstration-in-catalonia-11103413

F**king traitors

 

[Goonerview]

Would love to have the source of this. I work with several Catalan colleagues and have not heard this aspect of the story.

Love and support for Catalunya, I'll raise a glass to your freedom tonight.

But but ... the Spanish run media says that Catalonian people love Spain ... SMH.

I hope this is the first of many dominoes. I hope the Basque country and Scotland also get independence.

 

[Goonerview]

Catalonians are being used as human livestock to support Spain ... f**k that, fight for your independence.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

Catalonians are being used as human livestock to support Spain ..

How so?

 

[Goonerview]

How so?

Human tax livestock.

Catalans produce more taxable income than the average Spaniard. Billions of dollars have been flowing out of Catalonia to the rest of Spain.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

Human tax livestock.

Catalans produce more taxable income than the average Spaniard. Billions of dollars have been flowing out of Catalonia to the rest of Spain.

Fair enough, but isn’t it the case in any nation that there are wealthier areas that subsidize poorer parts of the nation?

 

[Ruprecht]

Well its 92% because someone wasnt going to risk get their skulls caved by the spanish police just to vote no.

Specially since the vote was non-binding.

Of course, but the fact that 42% of eligible voters showed up and voted anyway is a really strong statement of political will.
The opposition asserts that they are the majority anyway, so really they should just answer the question properly with a referendum.
The election of the separatist government in Calalonia, and the turnout/results of this referendum, make a strong case for demanding it.

 

[Orgasmo]

Human tax livestock.

Catalans produce more taxable income than the average Spaniard. Billions of dollars have been flowing out of Catalonia to the rest of Spain.

Same billions they need to spend to establish foreign missions, new government structures and military if they break from Spain. With no one in Europe willing to do business with them and companies moving out to stay in the EU zone, they're looking 50% unemployment within a year.