Charles Oliveira becomes an all time top 10 LW at Fightmatrix

[fortheo]

He should swap spots with poirier in those rankings

 

[BFoe]

This list is shit Bj Penn and him should be switched, conor should be where alvarez is and Tony shouldnt be there.

Lol at 155, Conor isn’t top 20.
I agree with you that Ferguson doesn’t belong in the top 10.

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

• 10 is actually pretty low imo. He should be higher than a bunch of those guys.

For everyone complaining about Fight Matrix's all-time rankings without knowing how they work, here are some of the criteria:

• The all-time rankings reflect the overall careers of MMA fighters

• Longevity at or near the top of the division plays a huge role in where a fighter is ranked. All of the rankings are career-long. Only extreme cases of past-prime bad performances are not completely excused from the rankings. Divisional strength is also a large factor in accumulating all-time ranking points.

• Head-to-head results have a minor, but direct effect.

• The nature of the rankings requires them for the most part, to be “slow” in reacting to actions made by current fighters. Think ‘rolling average’, versus immediate change when looking for effects from recent fights.

In a system that usually judges one's entire career of wins and losses, as well as the quality of those wins and losses, Charles being #10 makes sense.

Of course, ATG statuses are determined in an arbitrary way, and you may want to use different criteria for your own list.

 

[Omegasz]

Ferguson and Poirier have less top 10 wins than Alvarez and Henderson and neither were champion while Alvarez and Henderson were both champions. You don't know enough about the history of the LW division to give an opinion on this.

Poirier lost 3 times against the very best at 155 (I know Johnson could be very inconsistent at times), while Alvarez and Henderson lost many times at UFC, Bellator and WEC. Poirier beat 4 former champions at 155lbs, which includes a win over Alvarez himself. Eddie Alvarez beat 4 and Benson Henderson defeated 2 former Champions. On top of that, I would favor Poirier to beat both of them in a fight. I think its not that far off, to have Poirier in a all time top 5 at 155lbs.

 

[MMonk]

Alvarez won titles basically everywhere he fought. He is top 5. Henderson was WEC champion and UFC champion with 3 title defenses.

Tony and Dustin don't belong there. What the fuck have they done? Interim titles? lol

Agree.

1- Khabib
2- BJ
3- Charles
4- Eddie
5- Bendo

 

[CaptHANDSUP]

6. Melendez
7. Gomi
8. Oliveira
9. RDA

Their top 5 is good, not sure about the rest.

 

[LetThemBleed]

This list is shit Bj Penn and him should be switched, conor should be where alvarez is and Tony shouldnt be there.

You have Conor as the 3rd best LW of all time despite going going 1 and 3 there?

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

The score discrepancy between Khabib and Charles, based on who they beat makes no sense to me.

You're mistaken about a few things.

One, Khabib has more Top 10 wins than Charles does, and overall, even his non-Top 10 wins tended to be higher ranked than Charles' non-Top 10 wins, on average.

Two, Charles' losses affect his score, especially relative to Khabib.

Three, longevity at the top is also weighted in the Fight Matrix criteria. Khabib spent a longer time in the Top 10 than Charles has.

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

Poirier lost 3 times against the very best at 155 (I know Johnson could be very inconsistent at times), while Alvarez and Henderson lost many times at UFC, Bellator and WEC. Poirier beat 4 former champions at 155lbs, which includes a win over Alvarez himself. Eddie Alvarez beat 4 and Benson Henderson defeated 2 former Champions. On top of that, I would favor Poirier to beat both of them in a fight. I think its not that far off, to have Poirier in a all time top 5 at 155lbs.

Sure, but the mathematical criteria that Fight Matrix uses (which you can disagree with) gives weight to longevity at the top in addition to # of Top wins.

Eddie spent almost 10 years in the world LW Top 10 rankings, and I'm pretty sure he racked up more Top 10 wins than Dustin. That affects the score.

 

[mirko>anyone]

Another thinly veiled hate thread. Can we just merge these into one?

 

[Tweak896]

Interesting how BJ's career is overlooked today, when like 10 years ago he was a lock for top LW like Khabib is. It was different eras, but don't let his record deceive you. He was really well rounded with his blackbelt in BJJ, great TDD, crisp boxing that he stood up with the best. Obviously he stayed in too long, but had he retired after his first loss to Frankie which many people scored for him, he would've had a much higher reputation.

 

[Unbreakable]

1. Khabib
2. BJ Penn
3. Eddie Alvarez
4. Frankie Edgar
5. RDA

Henderson, Oliveira, Pettis, Melendez, Gomi, Ferguson, etc all deserves to be in the top 10.

 

[JKS]

I would think so, he should be higher. His record at LW is pretty dam good. It's something like 23-3 and his resume is among the most impressive.

 

[Woliwo]

About damn time.
But he really should be ranked higher.

 

[13Seconds]

No Melendez in the top 10? That list can fuck right off.
Not set in stone as LW is kind of a bitch to rank all time, but something like:

1. Khabib
2. BJ Penn
3. Benson Henderson
4. Gilbert Melendez
   
5. Eddie Alvarez
6. Charles Oliveira
7. RDA
8. Frankie
9. Takanori Gomi
10. Shinya Aoki

Edit: Aw shit, I forgot Poirier. Hmm. Maybe Poirier bumps Aoki from the list?

I just don't get how Charles is behind Bendo and Melendez

 

[surgeyou1]

No Melendez in the top 10? That list can fuck right off.
Not set in stone as LW is kind of a bitch to rank all time, but something like:

1. Khabib
2. BJ Penn
3. Benson Henderson
4. Gilbert Melendez
   
5. Eddie Alvarez
6. Charles Oliveira
7. RDA
8. Frankie
9. Takanori Gomi
10. Shinya Aoki

Edit: Aw shit, I forgot Poirier. Hmm. Maybe Poirier bumps Aoki from the list?

How is Gilbert above Eddie?

 

[EnthusiastCultivator]

Can we stop pretending BJ Penn is any good? It’s embarrassing to rank a 16-14 fighter as the #2 best ever. Sport evolved, fighters got better and wins nowadays hold more value than ones of the predecessors. Beating Poirier alone is more impressive than anything BJ did in his career.

 

[wisdom blows]

No Melendez in the top 10? That list can fuck right off.
Not set in stone as LW is kind of a bitch to rank all time, but something like:

1. Khabib
2. BJ Penn
3. Benson Henderson
4. Gilbert Melendez
   
5. Eddie Alvarez
6. Charles Oliveira
7. RDA
8. Frankie
9. Takanori Gomi
10. Shinya Aoki

Edit: Aw shit, I forgot Poirier. Hmm. Maybe Poirier bumps Aoki from the list?

Alvarez is more accomplished than Melendez and won their head to head fight

 

[wisdom blows]

Can we stop pretending BJ Penn is any good? It’s embarrassing to rank a 16-14 fighter as the #2 best ever. Sport evolved, fighters got better and wins nowadays hold more value than ones of the predecessors. Beating Poirier alone is more impressive than anything BJ did in his career.

none of what you said is how all time rankings work. It’s about relative competition for your era.

 

[RiotWyatt]

Makes sense because he only broke into the top 10 of LW a few years ago. Most of those guys were top 10 for around a decade.