Could BJJ Make a Comeback in MMA?

lol Doesn't seem that you respect Rickson, he beat good competition, what was available

He was over 40 years old when Sakuraba was popular, where was Sakuraba when he fought in ValetudoJapan? submitted by Kimo <{yahyou}>

High probability it was a work.

That said, Rickson fought available cans, not available opponents.
 
I think BJJ got massively overrated as a result of the first few UFC competitions. People started to believe that it was all you'd ever need and everything else was a waste of time.

Now there's an overcorrection. People are saying it's useless or substandard because you can't become UFC champ with pure BJJ.

Well, guess what? You can't become a UFC with champ purely with boxing, wrestling, judo, muay thai but that doesn't make these arts useless.
 
You’re kidding right?

Rickson crushed cans. And yeah, I think Funaki is way overrated, Pancrase probably had as many works as Pride.

You can’t compare Sakuraba to Rickson, Saku faced the best and took his losses like a man. He didn’t face people with such pathetic martial arts backgrounds, he faced legit competiton.

I hespect Rickson, great thinker, but he would struggle against other pros during 1999 or later, otherwise he would have fought cheap and taken easy money, if he were THAT good.
Rickson faced Yoshinori Nishi, Yuki Nakai, Yoshihisa Yamamoto, Koichiro Kimura and of course, Masakatsu Funaki (if you think that Pride and Pancrase worked the same amount of fights, then Funaki's record is no less inherently suspect than Sakuraba, I'd presume). That's not a bad lineup at all; all of them were experienced, knowledgeable grapplers and all of them were champions of some form of submission grappling and also trained and proficient in striking. Koichiro Kimura was actually one of the most dominant no-gi grapplers of the time, one could argue, given that he was utterly dominant in Submission Arts Wrestling tournaments, which were virtually the only no-gi submission wrestling events of that time, other than Combat Wrestling and perhaps luta livre events in Brazil. He also won a Submission Arts Wrestling tournament that was essentially an MMA tournament, where open-handed striking and kicks were allowed.

Whatever you think of those guys, Rickson easily could have beaten guys who had no clue about submission grappling. Instead, around half of his fights are against those relatively few individuals who were devoted to the study of submission-grappling, some of whom actually were proficient in areas of the game that Rickson wasn't necessarily as versed in (Nakai had the butterfly guard that he was an early innovator of, Funaki had his use of K-guard, his standing submission entries and various transitions and his general use of leg attacks in general). And in Vale Tudo Japan, Rickson was also set to face Kenji Kawaguchi, Shooto's top light heavyweight, with the fight only getting derailed because Kawaguchi lost to Jan Lomulder in the first round.

Point is, Rickson did fight people who were more knowledgeable about than the vast majority of professional martial artists of his day, during a time when he could have easily spent the entirety of his career fighting guys with absolutely no submission grappling knowledge. I think he deserves some degree of credit for that.
 
Rickson faced Yoshinori Nishi, Yuki Nakai, Yoshihisa Yamamoto, Koichiro Kimura and of course, Masakatsu Funaki (if you think that Pride and Pancrase worked the same amount of fights, then Funaki's record is no less inherently suspect than Sakuraba, I'd presume). That's not a bad lineup at all; all of them were experienced, knowledgeable grapplers and all of them were champions of some form of submission grappling and also trained and proficient in striking. Koichiro Kimura was actually one of the most dominant no-gi grapplers of the time, one could argue, given that he was utterly dominant in Submission Arts Wrestling tournaments, which were virtually the only no-gi submission wrestling events of that time, other than Combat Wrestling and perhaps luta livre events in Brazil. He also won a Submission Arts Wrestling tournament that was essentially an MMA tournament, where open-handed striking and kicks were allowed.

Whatever you think of those guys, Rickson easily could have beaten guys who had no clue about submission grappling. Instead, around half of his fights are against those relatively few individuals who were devoted to the study of submission-grappling, some of whom actually were proficient in areas of the game that Rickson wasn't necessarily as versed in (Nakai had the butterfly guard that he was an early innovator of, Funaki had his use of K-guard, his standing submission entries and various transitions and his general use of leg attacks in general). And in Vale Tudo Japan, Rickson was also set to face Kenji Kawaguchi, Shooto's top light heavyweight, with the fight only getting derailed because Kawaguchi lost to Jan Lomulder in the first round.

Point is, Rickson did fight people who were more knowledgeable about than the vast majority of professional martial artists of his day, during a time when he could have easily spent the entirety of his career fighting guys with absolutely no submission grappling knowledge. I think he deserves some degree of credit for that.

Bruh, I know you've been around the block, when I say cans, I mean people who just weren't ready for MMA. By 1995 and on, people had a better idea of the sport. Even though the Japanese guys had some submission/grappling, none of those guys were seasoned fighters, MMA style/Vale-Tudo were not something they did. So no matter how much they may have known about a given art, they were largely inexperienced.

The Gracie family breathed challenge matches against various styles, so even if modern MMA was not something they did all the time, they were still way more experienced, which is why I called the Vale Tudo 94/95 largely cans.
 
Bruh, I know you've been around the block, when I say cans, I mean people who just weren't ready for MMA. By 1995 and on, people had a better idea of the sport. Even though the Japanese guys had some submission/grappling, none of those guys were seasoned fighters, MMA style/Vale-Tudo were not something they did. So no matter how much they may have known about a given art, they were largely inexperienced.

The Gracie family breathed challenge matches against various styles, so even if modern MMA was not something they did all the time, they were still way more experienced, which is why I called the Vale Tudo 94/95 largely cans.
Who was experienced?
Kimo submitted Sakuraba.. end of story
 
LOL. Tryin’ to put down the Gracie Killer.
After fighting purple belt Kimo he took some BJJ classes. I like Catch
Rickson beat the scary Rei Zulu when he was a Teen
 
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You must get your BJJ as best as you can. You must also get your striking and wrestling as best you can. You can't skip any of it.
No, you can't just do BJJ and expect to become a UFC contender. Yes, you must do BJJ, and a lot of it, if you expect to become a UFC contender. We have had Wrestling and Judo Olympians, BJJ world champs, striking champions all compete in MMA. Some of them lose and don't make it, some of them win and become MMA champs. As the Ancient Chinese proverb says - "It's not the martial art. It's the martial artist."
 
After fighting purple belt Kimo he took some BJJ classes. I like Catch
Rickson beat the scary Rei Zulu when he was a Teen
I don't know about that. He trained with the other UWF guys. He did go to Beverly Hills Jiu Jitsu, but that was really as much a catch place as anywhere else at the time, with guys like Bas Rutten training and teaching there. And while he was at Beverly Hills Jiu Jitsu, everyone says he was a total beast on the mat.
 
I don't know about that. He trained with the other UWF guys. He did go to Beverly Hills Jiu Jitsu, but that was really as much a catch place as anywhere else at the time, with guys like Bas Rutten training and teaching there. And while he was at Beverly Hills Jiu Jitsu, everyone says he was a total beast on the mat.
Are you referring to sakuraba or kimo? If sakuraba that’s really cool, I’ve never heard that before
 
I don't know about that. He trained with the other UWF guys. He did go to Beverly Hills Jiu Jitsu, but that was really as much a catch place as anywhere else at the time, with guys like Bas Rutten training and teaching there. And while he was at Beverly Hills Jiu Jitsu, everyone says he was a total beast on the mat.
Im gonna go to Beverly Hills Karate for Kung Fu :D
 
Im gonna go to Beverly Hills Karate for Kung Fu :D
Of course, he did train with Sergio Penha in Japan. That is a historical fact as much as his training with the likes of Billy Robinson, Dan Hodge and Lou Thesz is a fact. But apparently the man who showed him guard most of all was Enson Inoue. That's according to Enson and Saku as well, I recall. But if you watch us UWFi matches, you see that he already had his game in place, with the single legs, the rolling kimuras, the chain submissions, etc. The techniques were there, I'm sure it is just a big difference knowing the techniques and being a monster in practice and having Kimo Leopoldo headbutting you in an MMA fight.
 
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Bruh, I know you've been around the block, when I say cans, I mean people who just weren't ready for MMA. By 1995 and on, people had a better idea of the sport. Even though the Japanese guys had some submission/grappling, none of those guys were seasoned fighters, MMA style/Vale-Tudo were not something they did. So no matter how much they may have known about a given art, they were largely inexperienced.

The Gracie family breathed challenge matches against various styles, so even if modern MMA was not something they did all the time, they were still way more experienced, which is why I called the Vale Tudo 94/95 largely cans.
The Japanese, who basically had jiu jitsu / Judo for 100's of years before the Gracie's, were inexperienced?.......what!
 
The Japanese, who basically had jiu jitsu / Judo for 100's of years before the Gracie's, were inexperienced?.......what!

Yeah, inexperienced at putting jiu-jitsu to work in a free fight.
 
BJJ has the same chance of making a comeback as boxing does.

What I mean by this is I have seen boxers get tap to a triangle choke. Does that mean boxing needs to come back?

Let's face it if you want to learn a martial art that works well in MMA, then do MMA. MMA means anything, judo + boxing, wrestling + muay thai, BJJ + muay thai

Or literally anything.

I went to MMA sparring last week and I had a good ground battle with some dude, I asked him what was his base and he said he only really ever did MMA. Yes he threw in some boxing and NO-GI classes. Today everyone should mix it up.
 
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lol He beat anybody he had to beat. Where was Sakuraba when he was fighting in ValetudoJapan? getting submitted by Kimo? :D


If Sakuraba is a bum then what does that make Royler, Royce, Renzo? Worse than bums.

Fangays never think their logic through.
 
It's like so weird...

I literally just watched Jailton Almeida beat the #9 ranked HW Jarzinho Rosenstruik in a couple of minutes.

So, Jailton took him down with a double leg (wrestling), forced half guard (bjj), passed half guard (bjj) to the leg drag position (bjj), took mount (bjj) and won with an RNC (bjj).
 
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