Could the coronavirus have reasonably been contained in China?

CaptHANDSUP

Brown Belt
@Brown
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
2,592
Reaction score
1,628
This is going to be a bit of a long read but there is a lot of relevant information and arguments to be made so there is no way around it.

There are people who make the argument that even if CCP took early decisive action, that the virus would still become an equally big global issue regardless. That something like the coronavirus cannot be contained. Coincidentally its always my Chinese friends who state this.

At first I was inclined to agree but seeing what sort of beast corona is now and what exactly we're dealing with, I think there is mounting evidence against this logic.

I personally believe that if the CCP told the world early on exactly what the disease was and given us accurate statistics, most countries would begin the procedure of closing borders with China and only allowing travel in cases were Chinese citizens would be put in quarantine for 14 days upon arrival. All imported goods would also be quarantined for the appropriate period or disinfected.

Considering that the CCP knew how bad the virus was in late December to early January, and the first spike of infections outside of China (in Korea) were in early February, this would give governments ample time to respond.

In practice, flights out of these places would be rare and everyone coming in these flights would agree to be quarantined regardless of whether they were in China or not. They would also arrive at small airports or landing strips. Not at the main airport of each city. These methods have proven to be effective with cruise ships and returning nationals. E.g. here in Australia, returning nationals are quarantined for 14 days upon arrival. We have had no known cases of infections coming in from the outside since this system was implemented.

Now this wont change the fact that some governments (e.g. the US) would still be irresponsible causing the virus wreak havoc in their borders, but countries who took decisive action in our timeline (like Australia, New Zealand, South Korea) would be largely unaffected in this alternate scenario.

Though this would still lead to small spikes of infections in these fast-responding countries, it'd be a small and rare enough that the virus could be realistically contained without having to shut the entire national economy down. Worst case scenario, you'd just have to quarantine a city or a region, not the whole country. We've seen in countries like Japan and Singapore that small spikes of infections were contained through contact tracing. That not all small localized spikes of infections will, by default, grow into a nation-wide spike in infections. Especially if you've good testing.

But when you have a case of 1000s of Chinese showing up in a place like Italy, who are travelling around to celebrate their new years, you've suddenly got a situation on your hand that you cant control. Because you're not starting with one or two infections but hundreds. That is impossible to contain.

The best evidence against this is that even responsible governments like Italy made many mistakes causing the outbreak to worsen because the situation was so unprecedented, even after they had realized just how dangerous the virus was. This is true but because of the smaller scale of the outbreaks, there would be a significantly smaller chance of a country-wide outbreak and each government would be given more opportunities to learn from their mistakes.

At the end of the day to an extent its like rolling the dice. So certain responsible countries would still have massive outbreaks but there would be less of them. Perhaps in this alternate timeline only Italy or Spain would have mass outbreaks. Instead of Italy, Spain, Germany, UK, Korea, Japan, and others all having them.

These unlucky responsible countries, along with irresponsible countries (like the US), would also be put on the travel quarantine list.

The best evidence for this is that the disease was contained in countries like Australia and Singapore. Though a national lockdown was required, we could conceivably have regional lockdowns for a few weeks at a time each time there is a small spike in infections. That is in cases where contact tracing is ineffective (although in most cases it is). This regional lockdown would have had the same effect as a national lockdown without the economic damage of a national lockdown. These lockdowns would also be less authoritative and comprehensive allowing both the people and the economy to suffer less.

We may have a case were eventually in the next year or so the weight would become too much, the dam would break, and the flood of the corona would hit the world. But in that year we would have been given crucial time to develop a vaccine while also reducing the opportunities of the virus to mutate by giving it less hosts. All the while also having more time to learn from our mistakes and being given ample time to apply our technologies into things like contact tracing apps. While also giving us more time to build our reserves of face masks, testing kits, ICU rooms, etc. And also allowing us to send more of these important to countries that are affected and are having shortages.

The negligence of the CCP is unspeakable. Even as they had banned people from leaving Wuhan and going to other regions of China, at the same time, they were still crying 'racism' when countries would close their borders and would put heavy pressure on them to open their borders back up. If that's not malicious, I don't know what is.

I think the logic the CCP had in doing this was that they knew if the virus was contained within China, their rat race to the top would completely collapse. Not only would their economy be devastated from the lock downs but trade with China would come to a halt and people would realize what they've now realized anyway, that relaying on China for all your goods/products is not smart. And China relies on a huge net export for economic growth, especially into a country like America. China was built and is being built on exports into the US. This would've been an absolute disaster for them. So they would rather watch the whole world burn with them rather than burn alone.

For the sake of not spreading misinformation:
Internal consumption is the key driver of their growth after 2008 recession. Trade with US represents approximately 5% of their annual GDP, with their domestic market accounting for 75%.
 
Last edited:
Could the coronavirus have reasonably been contained in China?
Short answer: No.
The time it took to realize what the virus was causing, the 'genie' was out of the bottle and people were traveling with it outside of China. COVID-19 is caused by a coronavirus called SARS-CoV-2.
 
Short answer: No.
The time it took to realize what the virus was causing, the 'genie' was out of the bottle and people were traveling with it outside of China. COVID-19 is caused by a coronavirus called SARS-CoV-2.

By the time other countries started having any signs of infection, it had already been at least a month and a half after the CCP knew how bad the virus was. That is a lot of extra response time.

By the time other countries starting having enough infections to know that the virus is actually dangerous. It had been two and a half months.

These surrounding countries (like Korea) may have had a case or two of corona present in January or February. But if they knew how bad Corona actually was they would have taken action early and not allowed these one or two infections to turn into thousands upon thousands. That lady in South Korea who gave it to a thousand people in her church in South Korea? That wouldnt have happened.
 
Also the genie out of the bottle analogy would have applied two months ago, but now we know that corona can be contained, its not easy. But it can be done.

And it sure is a lot easier to do it when you have a few infections as opposed to a few hundred infections.

Just look at the evidence of how well quarantining travelers works. Imagine if travels out of China were quarantined for 14 days from the 15th of January onwards. How many countries would have had mass outbreaks then? Other than maybe Italy because of its constant infux of Chinese tourists.

Look at the evidence of how well contact tracing and proper regional lockdowns work. None of these things are easy or cheap. But they are nothing like what we are facing now.

Look at how well mass testing works.

All of these things were implemented after countries had mass outbreaks. What if they were implemented before countries had mass outbreaks?

It is evident that most countries would take these actions if they knew how bad the disease was, because that is what happened. But it happened a month or two too late.

Then the only countries who wouldve been severely affected would be the same ones who are being irresponsible right now.

How come Australia is barely having any infections even though the "genie is out of the bottle"? How come Korea and Singapore are doing okay without mass lockdowns because they are using contact tracing and testing effectively?
 
Last edited:
I guess so? Kinda monday morning quarterbacking that one though. Dont think they expected things to get this bad.

If they did, probably would have simply isolated all of Wuhan immediately in a massive crackdown. Would have saved them alot of pain. They would have needed a crystal ball though. The other respiratory diseases from there weren't this bad.
 
By the time they did isolate Wuhan it was too late, but that doesnt mean it was too late for the rest of the world too.

And the situation may have not gone perfectly, like I said, a lot of well-intending governments still made mistakes because the virus was so unprecedented, but it would not have gotten this bad.
 
Yes they could have. A moron could see the writing on the wall. The original footage coming out of wuhan should have been enough to frighten the crap out of people. Greed is what fucked us over. Globalism only works for the rich, it destroyes the planet and fucks everybody else in between.
 
Yes they could have. A moron could see the writing on the wall. The original footage coming out of wuhan should have been enough to frighten the crap out of people. Greed is what fucked us over. Globalism only works for the rich, it destroyes the planet and fucks everybody else in between.
Bullshit...Globalism has benefited every social class.

Back in the day, being poor meant u didnt get shit, no netflix, no internet, no anything.

Bro, sherdog is literally only possible because of Globalism......An American based company based on a japanese fighting arts refined by brazilians...doesn't get more globalism than that.

Im not saying globalism doesn't have it's problems but globalism is mostly good....mostly.
 
Bullshit...Globalism has benefited every social class.

Back in the day, being poor meant u didnt get shit, no netflix, no internet, no anything.

Bro, sherdog is literally only possible because of Globalism......An American based company based on a japanese fighting arts refined by brazilians...doesn't get more globalism than that.

Im not saying globalism doesn't have it's problems but globalism is mostly good....mostly.

This is not what we are here to discuss but globalisation has absolutely ravaged places like africa for the profit of westsern countries. When you say globalisation has helped every social class, youre talking about social classes in western countries without even realizing it. Stop parroting shit politicians tell you when you dont even understand what theyre actually saying.

That is only a minor largely unrelated point that i spoke about in the OP so lets keep it on corona.
 
No, their political system ensures it.

Local government officials are promoted to the national level based on how much economic growth they can generate and how stable their regions are. In another words, they care about making the numbers look good. Imposing quarantine measures publicly would disrupt that, so local CCP official rather deal with new matters discreetly and keep the national CCP bosses in the dark as long as possible. In this case, it blew up spectacularly in their faces.

Given how sudden and disorganized the Wuhan lockdown was imposed in late January, I think Xi went into panic mode after the scale of the issue dawned on his inner circle.
 
Last edited:
And China relies on a huge net export for economic growth, especially into a country like America. China was built and is being built on exports into the US.
This part is way off. Internal consumption is the key driver of their growth after 2008 recession. Trade with US represents approximately 5% of their annual GDP, with their domestic market accounting for 75%.

They currently have the world's largest consumer market, surpassing US last year.
 
Last edited:
Yes, it could have. Look at how Taiwan and South Korea contained it.

CCP and Wuhan local authorities should have acted sooner, when doctors in Wuhan first sounded the alarm. Instead of quarantining Wuhan, the CCP allowed for millions of Chinese New Year travellers to go in and out of Wuhan, even though the CCP knew the virus was spreading at that point. Instead of restricting travel out of the country the CCP pressured other nations to allow Chinese travellers unfettered access.
 
No, their political system ensures it.

Local government officials are promoted to the national level based on how much economic growth they can generate and how stable their regions are. In another words, they care about making the numbers look good. Imposing quarantine measures publicly would disrupt that, so local CCP official rather deal with new matters discreetly and keep the national CCP bosses in the dark as long as possible. In this case, it blew up spectacularly in their faces.

Given how sudden and disorganized the Wuhan lockdown was imposed in late January, I think Xi went into panic mode after the scale of the issue dawned on his inner circle.

You can see reflections of this kind of flawed political system in the USA too. That sort of thing is what caused the navy to get so bad that they started hitting things a couple years ago.

Leadership based on numbers doesnt really work.
 
Could have and should have. But the CCP didn't wanna lose face, they didn't care about losing lives.
 
Who the fuck knows, the only source any of us have is Government information. That shit could have come from anywhere, or nowhere, there are agendas in place that most of us could not begin to fathom..
 
Short answer: No.
The time it took to realize what the virus was causing, the 'genie' was out of the bottle and people were traveling with it outside of China. COVID-19 is caused by a coronavirus called SARS-CoV-2.
Winnie approves your post!
 
Maybe not stop but it could have been much better if China did not try to cover it up for months. And lets not forget that intel report claiming the virus was a lab leak, maybe the fuckers should not be researching contagious virus with shit safety guidelines/equipment
 
Maybe not stop but it could have been much better if China did not try to cover it up for months. And lets not forget that intel report claiming the virus was a lab leak, maybe the fuckers should not be researching contagious virus with shit safety guidelines/equipment

It is highly unlikely that it is from a lab.
 
They knew enough to stop flights in country, so they could have stopped flights to Europe. Why they chose not to is up for discussion.

<Fedor23>
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,237,726
Messages
55,512,407
Members
174,803
Latest member
Derik
Back
Top