Covering like a boxer in Muay Thai, good or bad?

[MuayThaiDude]

Personally, I don't find the two-hand, palms in, on the brow, blocking style very effective in Muay Thai, at least not for me. After doing some major forum searching I could not get the answer I was looking for. So let me ask you all. Is this something your gym teaches as the main form of defense against punches to your face? What types of blocks work best for you?

I am 6 feet, 200 pounds and 39 years old. I am more of a counter puncher. I am not looking to be pro, but would like to do some smokers or an amateur bout or two. I have doing MT for 2.5 years now and the one major issue I have is adjusting from a traditional martial arts blocking system (Wing Chin and Kempo) to one with gloves, yes even after 2 years. I much prefer to evade, parry, or do a straight arm block. The only time I would cover up like a traditional boxer is up against the ropes, do it quickly if we are in close range to begin with or if I get dazed and need to get out of dodge.

For me, starting out with both of my gloves pressed up against my forehead just invites hard punches that do some damage. I am taller than many people I spar with and don't want them getting in that close.

My feeling is that it works more for boxing because you can duck, bob and weave, slip etc. at the same time. When applied in MT it seems, as I stated, to just invite an ass-whooping. Thoughts?

Thank you in advance for any input.

 

[yookfarb]

what doesn't work for you is my bread and butter

 

[a guy]

Both gloves pressed against your forehead? That's not really ideal in boxing either.

 

[aries]

I don't see what it has to do with not being able to slip which you can still do in MT, bobbing and weaving not so much. If you are getting shellacked by punches then they aren't clinching, kicking or elbowing you, so why wouldn't you try and slip or even bob and weave?
The main problem with a tighter guard in MT is vulnerability to the clinch and blocking elbows plus kicks to an extent not that you are unable to slip punches. But there are plenty of Dutch style fighters that have that peekaboo style and utilise it very effectively, Robin Van Roosmalen being a notable proponent. But in MT it's much more of a liability due to clinching and elbows.

 

[PivotPunch]

I think that peekaboo thing is much more common in kickboxing than in boxing and why should you in general cover up in a peekaboo if you don't feel comfortable fighting that way.

Also if it's jsut a static peekaboo it's a shit way of defence anyway every fighter who is really good at covering up doesn't just put his hands up but a.) can counterpunch and b) still parries, just with smaller more subtle movements closer to the face and you have to adjust the guard according to the punches thrown at you there isn't one peekaboo position that will defend you iof you hold your hands static in one place.

And with a reach advantage especially you are making it easier for the other guy to close the distance so yes if you don't feel like it works for you then probably for a good reason.

Also resting your hands on your forehead is like a last resort tactic if you are tired and/or unable to defend in any other way and have to withstand a big onslaught and an really do nothing else but obviously it's not the ideal way to block since it means that you are basically wearing a helmet but the punches are still getting through your "helmet" just with less power

 

[AndyMaBobs]

My feeling is that it works more for boxing because you can duck, bob and weave, slip etc. at the same time. When applied in MT it seems, as I stated, to just invite an ass-whooping. Thoughts?

False. There is, always has and always will be headmovement in Muay Thai

Personally, I don't find the two-hand, palms in, on the brow, blocking style very effective in Muay Thai, at least not for me. After doing some major forum searching I could not get the answer I was looking for. So let me ask you all. Is this something your gym teaches as the main form of defense against punches to your face? What types of blocks work best for you?

Your best bet with blocking is while you take high kicks on the forearm if you can't slip backwards, that you parry punches to return counters. It's probably your best bet. In my opinion covering up doesn't lend itself well to counter fighting (speaking as a lousy counter fighter) if you cover up and block then it just makes you a target and a good opponent can just keep you covered up and land heavier blows to places that aren't guarded.

A counter fighter needs active defence with headmovement and parries.

 

[Kanka]

Try the long guard

 

[Tug]

for mt it's the best way for noobs to get up and running in sparring before they can evade, counter and parry or use the long guard effectively. it takes long enough for beginners to simply learn to keep a tight guard and "one goes out one comes in" without hands dropping or going everywhere. this is likely why classes focus on it for the most part. it protects your head from being kicked and punched while maintaining a solid base seeing as noobs are going to struggle with distance and movement. and bear in mind most class sparring sessions don't have the luxury of a large ring for each pair so space is limited to be using too much evasion, so you will need to eat hits.

obviously you want to progress past that but the tight guard is very effective when you're getting pummelled

and of course evasion is legit but lowering your elevation too much invites knees and kicks. when I see boxers in our mt class use evasion more typical to boxing it often makes their stance overly bladed so they are compromised in other ways. it will work as long as someone isn't high level enough to punish you for it.

and if you feel like you're inviting hard punches there's no shame in asking your partners to go lighter

 

[exclamatio]

Like everyone said, tight covering works, but you can't stay there too long! There are just so many more ways to get hit in Muay Thai, elbows like to sneak through the guard and if someone wants to keep taking shins to the arms, it's still going to add up!

 

[MuayThaiDude]

I think that peekaboo thing is much more common in kickboxing than in boxing and why should you in general cover up in a peekaboo if you don't feel comfortable fighting that way.

Also if it's jsut a static peekaboo it's a shit way of defence anyway every fighter who is really good at covering up doesn't just put his hands up but a.) can counterpunch and b) still parries, just with smaller more subtle movements closer to the face and you have to adjust the guard according to the punches thrown at you there isn't one peekaboo position that will defend you iof you hold your hands static in one place.

And with a reach advantage especially you are making it easier for the other guy to close the distance so yes if you don't feel like it works for you then probably for a good reason.

Also resting your hands on your forehead is like a last resort tactic if you are tired and/or unable to defend in any other way and have to withstand a big onslaught and an really do nothing else but obviously it's not the ideal way to block since it means that you are basically wearing a helmet but the punches are still getting through your "helmet" just with less power

Thank you for your insight. It's helpful. I appreciate it.

 

[MuayThaiDude]

for mt it's the best way for noobs to get up and running in sparring before they can evade, counter and parry or use the long guard effectively. it takes long enough for beginners to simply learn to keep a tight guard and "one goes out one comes in" without hands dropping or going everywhere. this is likely why classes focus on it for the most part. it protects your head from being kicked and punched while maintaining a solid base seeing as noobs are going to struggle with distance and movement. and bear in mind most class sparring sessions don't have the luxury of a large ring for each pair so space is limited to be using too much evasion, so you will need to eat hits.

obviously you want to progress past that but the tight guard is very effective when you're getting pummelled

and of course evasion is legit but lowering your elevation too much invites knees and kicks. when I see boxers in our mt class use evasion more typical to boxing it often makes their stance overly bladed so they are compromised in other ways. it will work as long as someone isn't high level enough to punish you for it.

and if you feel like you're inviting hard punches there's no shame in asking your partners to go lighter

Thanks Tug, you make some very valid points.

 

[DoctorTaco]

If I'm sparring MT rules and a guy shells up, I'll start working my clinch game

 

[Kanka]

If I'm sparring MT rules and a guy shells up, I'll start working my clinch game

I would grab his head, then knee him. And push him away just before he tries to punch back

 

[Kiwi Tricker]

Everything has a time and a place. Should you rely on it? No. Can you use it? Definitely.

 

[georgejjr]

and of course evasion is legit but lowering your elevation too much invites knees and kicks. when I see boxers in our mt class use evasion more typical to boxing it often makes their stance overly bladed so they are compromised in other ways. it will work as long as someone isn't high level enough to punish you for it.

Question from a wrestler/judoka who does a bit of boxing as part of MMA but knows little about MT - evasion and especially lowering elevation are becoming increasingly common at high levels in MMA despite the existence of knees and kicks. Is it the lack of takedowns (especially shots) that make it problematic in MT, or is there something else involved?

 

[Tug]

Question from a wrestler/judoka who does a bit of boxing as part of MMA but knows little about MT - evasion and especially lowering elevation are becoming increasingly common at high levels in MMA despite the existence of knees and kicks. Is it the lack of takedowns (especially shots) that make it problematic in MT, or is there something else involved?

sorry i only train mt (and im a beginner at that too) so this is beyond my knowledge mate. i would imagine it's to do with the rule sets and scoring first and foremost. there's no risk of take downs in mt for example. it seems you get punished for ducking too low in mt, and will get punished for standing too upright in mma. obviously there are exceptions to everything, especially at the higher levels, but results tend to whittle down to a "best practice approach" at the lower levels at least.

 

[aries]

Question from a wrestler/judoka who does a bit of boxing as part of MMA but knows little about MT - evasion and especially lowering elevation are becoming increasingly common at high levels in MMA despite the existence of knees and kicks. Is it the lack of takedowns (especially shots) that make it problematic in MT, or is there something else involved?

Pretty much. In MMA if you get low to evade you are also presenting a possible threat to your opponent. In MT all you are doing is purely defensive against high attacks but opening yourself up to a lot of low line attacks and clinching. In MMA clinching can be countered by going low i.e. snatching a single, pulling guard, attacking a leg. In MT all you do is expose yourself to knees.

 

[98bird]

it seems you get punished for ducking too low in mt, and will get punished for standing too upright in mma. obviously there are exceptions to everything, especially at the higher levels, but results tend to whittle down to a "best practice approach" at the lower levels at least.

It just depends. Boxing + MT works very well vs. Pure MT. If I'm ducking low in Muay Thai, it was to evade a punch he's committed to, so he ain't kneeing me while still throwing that punch (as I'm ducking)......and my ducking is in a shallow "U" shape and coming right back up with a high powered hook. So I'm not going real low and staying there like Pernell Whitaker. In Boxing I could, but not in MT.

Just like how you shouldn't use full MT in MMA, you also have to twee things when using Boxing in MT.

 

[AllKickboxing]

Personally, I don't find the two-hand, palms in, on the brow, blocking style very effective in Muay Thai, at least not for me. After doing some major forum searching I could not get the answer I was looking for. So let me ask you all. Is this something your gym teaches as the main form of defense against punches to your face? What types of blocks work best for you?

I am 6 feet, 200 pounds and 39 years old. I am more of a counter puncher. I am not looking to be pro, but would like to do some smokers or an amateur bout or two. I have doing MT for 2.5 years now and the one major issue I have is adjusting from a traditional martial arts blocking system (Wing Chin and Kempo) to one with gloves, yes even after 2 years. I much prefer to evade, parry, or do a straight arm block. The only time I would cover up like a traditional boxer is up against the ropes, do it quickly if we are in close range to begin with or if I get dazed and need to get out of dodge.

For me, starting out with both of my gloves pressed up against my forehead just invites hard punches that do some damage. I am taller than many people I spar with and don't want them getting in that close.

My feeling is that it works more for boxing because you can duck, bob and weave, slip etc. at the same time. When applied in MT it seems, as I stated, to just invite an ass-whooping. Thoughts?

Thank you in advance for any input.

I don't think any one style of defense, for instance, the double gloves block, should be restricted. A combination of parries, stiff arms and blocks can create the most airtight defense possible. Be careful elbows don't sneak through your double blocks and your gloves don't blind you from seeing your opponent's leg kick after his punches. Good luck!

 

[Jukai]

Pretty much. In MMA if you get low to evade you are also presenting a possible threat to your opponent. In MT all you are doing is purely defensive against high attacks but opening yourself up to a lot of low line attacks and clinching. In MMA clinching can be countered by going low i.e. snatching a single, pulling guard, attacking a leg. In MT all you do is expose yourself to knees.

It's also because there aren't as many great kickers/knee-ers in MMA because of the time needed to put into the grappling aspect of MMA.