Social Crisis' at Columbia University forces classes online, arrests at Yale College campuses are becoming battle grounds for Hamas and Isreal

[Rob Battisti]

What is the argument against theocratic ethno-States? Is this a serious question?

Incorrectly phrased on my behalf.

We have many theocratic ethno-states in todays world.

How would you go about dismantling them and what is your argument for doing so?

In other words, how would you go to Pakistan and tell them that they cant run their country the way they want to?

 

[Sinister]

Incorrectly phrased on my behalf.

We have many theocratic ethno-states in todays world.

How would you go about dismantling them and what is your argument for doing so?

In other words, how would you go to Pakistan and tell them that they cant run their country the way they want to?

All of the theocratic ethno-States are idiotic. My argument for wanting them dismantled is that they almost always end with either political disenfranchisement or eradication of minorities, especially when the in-group suffers literally any hardship, it becomes a State mechanism to suggest that all the woes are not the result of bad leadership, or bad base ideas, it's the result of those people being here. That's not to say this never happens in pluralized Countries, but it's easier to take root in Countries whose systems are built around a distinct religious or ethnic identity.

 

[Lucas1980]

What school did you go to where you went on field trips to break through windows of government buildings and fight pitched battles with riot police?

Of course I'm exaggerating but it wasn't this monumental event that was so horrific that the limp wristed "media" like Morning Joe constantly cry about...The riots all year long that the Democratic Governors turned a blind eye on were much worse.

 

[Sinister]

Good thing it's a secular democracy without a state religion hosting Jewish refugees of varied ethnic groups from everywhere around the world then.

You dont need a State religion when the entire premise of the existence of your State IS the religion. Hence your need to distinguish the hosting of "Jewish" refugees, which is relevant considering the rejection of refugees created by their current "War" efforts.

 

[Lucas1980]

No she wasnt brandishing, she was directly disobeying repeated calls to not forcibly enter the area with a gun aimed right at her. But to say she was unarmed is false.

Now if she was a black women that didn't actually charge at the officers with the knife and police shot her ...every race grifter under the sun would be yelling like bitches..."Say Her Name". And if you say they wouldn't be you're a straight up liar.

 

[Rob Battisti]

All of the theocratic ethno-States are idiotic. My argument for wanting them dismantled is that they almost always end with either political disenfranchisement or eradication of minorities, especially when the in-group suffers literally any hardship, it becomes a State mechanism to suggest that all the woes are not the result of bad leadership, or bad base ideas, it's the result of those people being here. That's not to say this never happens in pluralized Countries, but it's easier to take root in Countries whose systems are built around a distinct religious or ethnic identity.

Fair enough. I see that as being ideologically opposed to such a place but I don’t see how we actually can get rid of them.

 

[Sinister]

How it went then:



How its going now:

 

[Sinister]

Now if she was a black women that didn't actually charge at the officers with the knife and police shot her ...every race grifter under the sun would be yelling like bitches..."Say Her Name". And if you say they wouldn't be you're a straight up liar.

Always playing that race card, eh buddy?

 

[Sinister]

Fair enough. I see that as being ideologically opposed to such a place but I don’t see how we actually can get rid of them.

It's a long process that has to be done essentially from the ground level. I dont agree that force is the best way because that tends to solidify further fundamentalism that drives religious extremists into favorability by an oppressed population.

 

[Rational Poster]

You dont need a State religion when the entire premise of the existence of your State IS the religion. Hence your need to distinguish the hosting of "Jewish" refugees, which is relevant considering the rejection of refugees created by their current "War" efforts.

You can have a religious preference and still run a secular state. It's not binary.

Why can other countries have religious preference but not Israel?

 

[Rational Poster]

Of course I'm exaggerating but it wasn't this monumental event that was so horrific that the limp wristed "media" like Morning Joe constantly cry about...The riots all year long that the Democratic Governors turned a blind eye on were much worse.

Nah, that shit was pretty fucking bad and way worse than your attempts to white wash it suggest. It is an embarrassment to American democracy and anyone involved with the political movement that lead to the event should be ashamed and do some introspection.

General civil unrest is not comparable.

 

[Sinister]

You can have a religious preference and still run a secular state. It's not binary.

Why can other countries have religious preference but not Israel?

Religious preference is not the same thing as the core belief that the State is FOR people who share your religion, specifically.

I dont care what religion people practice, even en masse, until it starts restricting rights and abilities of people who dont share that religion. Until you create classes of citizenship that specifically favor that religion. Not a fan of sanctioned discrimination of any kind.

 

[Sinister]

This whole "ancestral right" concept is total bullshit.

I can directly trace my family tree back to literal Norse Kings of Sweden, Denmark, England, and Normandy.

Guess what, that doesn't mean shit for me in 2024.

I'm lucky to be inheriting my dad's small home in the North SF Bay Area.

To be fair that IS lucky. I bet the value of that home is pretty sweet right now.

 

[Rob Battisti]

It's a long process that has to be done essentially from the ground level. I dont agree that force is the best way because that tends to solidify further fundamentalism that drives religious extremists into favorability by an oppressed population.

I don’t know what “the ground level” would mean here. I think secular governments are better than theocratic ones, but when 95%+ of a country is of that theology, it’s kind of their right to run it how they want.

Also, prior to 10/7, Israel was far more tolerant of religious minorities than other Islamic countries, wouldn’t you agree?

 

[Confucamus]

Always playing that race card, eh buddy?

He's absolutely right, and it's been proven time and time again. Leftists justify and even celebrate Ashli Babbit's death. LOL at "she had a knife on her." Alton Sterling died trying to pull a gun out of his pocket to murder two police officers and that set off a wave of protests from BLM assholes.

 

[Rational Poster]

Religious preference is not the same thing as the core belief that the State is FOR people who share your religion, specifically.

I dont care what religion people practice, even en masse, until it starts restricting rights and abilities of people who dont share that religion. Until you create classes of citizenship that specifically favor that religion. Not a fan of sanctioned discrimination of any kind.

Why should one of most universally persecuted minorities in human history not have a right to have a place to call their own?

Even still, millions of non-Jews live in Israel. So obviously the state is not just for Jewish people.

 

[Samjj]

Why should one of most universally persecuted minorities in human history not have a right to have a place to call their own?

Even still, millions of non-Jews live in Israel. So obviously the state is not just for Jewish people.

Worth noting also that the claim here is that Israel is a "religious" (non-secular) state because it exists for Jewish (inherently religious) people.

Judaism is also an ethnicity which has nothing to do with religious practice.
The largest demographic of Israelis today are secular and non practicing, as were most early Zionist leaders.

 

[Sinister]

The father of Zionism is Theodor Herzel (probably misspelled) and he was... a jew. You can argue pogroms made the idea more appealing but the jews were being persecuted before Christianity was even a thing. We don't need to argue this though because as I stated we are generally on the same side of this issue.

Sorry I got lost in the hornet's nest a bit.

Was Herzel's contention that Jews were entitled to return specifically to the then-forming Palestine because God said it was ok that they do this? That's the interpretation of Zionism I'm talking about. If I remember correctly Herzel initially proposed essentially everywhere except there. He espoused the idea of a Jewish State as a contention that anti-Semitism couldn't be defeated through assimilation, but it was not about a return.

 

[Samjj]

Was Herzel's contention that Jews were entitled to return specifically to the then-forming Palestine because God said it was ok that they do this? That's the interpretation of Zionism I'm talking about. If I remember correctly Herzel initially proposed essentially everywhere except there. He espoused the idea of a Jewish State as a contention that anti-Semitism couldn't be defeated through assimilation, but it was not about a return.

No, and in fact most early Zionist leadership who were instrumental in establishing the state were very openly atheistic in their beliefs.

Socialist and communistic (secular) ideologies dominated the landscape for a number of decades as well.

The messianic visions that you're describing became more prominent amongst settler movements in the WB in the late 60's and early 70's and represent a minority amongst modern and historic "Zionists."

 

[AZ103]

Sorry I got lost in the hornet's nest a bit.

Was Herzel's contention that Jews were entitled to return specifically to the then-forming Palestine because God said it was ok that they do this? That's the interpretation of Zionism I'm talking about. If I remember correctly Herzel initially proposed essentially everywhere except there. He espoused the idea of a Jewish State as a contention that anti-Semitism couldn't be defeated through assimilation, but it was not about a return.

I'm not an expert so I can't say with absolute certainty but from what I understand the entire term is born from "the return to zion" which happened before Jesus was even born and after the Babylonian exile so I'd imagine just by invoking the name its clear he meant a return to palestine/Jerusalem.