David Taylor is Oklahoma State's new head coach

[Kforcer]

So David Taylor is now head coach of the greatest wrestling program in the history of NCAA wrestling. Arguably the greatest sports program in NCAA history. Big shoes to fill and kinda interesting and almost strange to me that it wasn't one of the many great Oklahoma State Olympic medalists that filled Smith's shoes, given how important tradition is over at Oklahoma State. Almost seems like the end of an era in more ways that one, with one of Penn State's best taking over the reigns from one of OSU's best wrestlers and a guy who was a product of the program through and through whose whole family was synonymous with Cowboy greatness.

So what happens next...? I admit to being a little sad about the news, though for all I know it might turn out to be a great thing for the program.

 

[ChickenBrother]

So David Taylor is now head coach of the greatest wrestling program in the history of NCAA wrestling. Arguably the greatest sports program in NCAA history. Big shoes to fill and kinda interesting and almost strange to me that it wasn't one of the many great Oklahoma State Olympic medalists that filled Smith's shoes, given how important tradition is over at Oklahoma State. Almost seems like the end of an era in more ways that one, with one of Penn State's best taking over the reigns from one of OSU's best wrestlers and a guy who was a product of the program through and through whose whole family was synonymous with Cowboy greatness.

So what happens next...? I admit to being a little sad about the news, though for all I know it might turn out to be a great thing for the program.

I don't usually follow the coaching drama but this is interesting for sure. FYI this was discussed in the NCAA wrestling sticky but it deserves its own thread. It's notable that Coleman Scott left a head coach role at UNC just last year to take an assistant role under John Smith but has now been mogged for the top spot by a bigger name in Taylor.

This raises a lot of questions for me. First off, this must have been a very sudden development because Taylor obviously had plans to make the 2024 Olympics and didn't lose to Brooks for that spot until literally 2 weeks ago at the trials. Had Taylor defeated Brooks, would Coleman Scott have been named Smith's successor? And given that he's 33 (and still looked good against Brooks), will Taylor devote all his energies to being a coach, or will he try to squeeze in a few more years of competing himself at the international level? Given that he'll be 37 in 2028, probably unlikely he stays in till the next Olympic cycle.

And while I'm clueless how this works in practice, does it strike anyone else as curious that Taylor was catapulted into the top spot of a marquee program without (on paper) any full-time coaching experience? Even Cael (coming off his 2004 Olympic gold) had to do 3 years as an assistant coach to learn the ropes at Iowa State before he became the head coach there in 2007 and then jumped to Penn State 2 years later to be the top dog there.

John Smith himself went straight to OSU head coach in 1991 when he was only 26 and somehow still competed and won Olympic gold in 1992. Given the latter, I strongly suspect he may have been "head coach" in name only but was initially still focused on his own competition career and then heavily leaned on his more experienced assistant coaches until he came into his own in the top role.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Also worth a mention: the other big name who just got knocked off the podium at the Olympic trials was Jordan Burroughs. Given that he's about to turn 36 and considering how fond he is of blast doubles, I have to think his GOAT-worthy competition career is probably over. Surely this dude is top of mind for any head coaching role if he wants it (even more so than Taylor). But given how much he's surely made in sponsorships over the years, he's probably set financially if he just wants to ride off into the sunset.

 

[Kforcer]

I usually don't follow the coaching drama but this is interesting for sure. FYI this was discussed a little in the NCAA wrestling sticky thread but it deserves its own thread. It's also notable that Coleman Scott left a head coach role at UNC just last year to take an assistant role under John Smith but has now been mogged for the top spot by a bigger name in Taylor.

This raises a lot of questions for me. First off, this must have been a very sudden development because Taylor obviously had plans to make the 2024 Olympics and didn't lose to Brooks for that spot until literally 2 weeks ago at the trials. Had Taylor defeated Brooks, would Coleman Scott have been named Smith's successor? And given that he's 33 (and still looked good against Brooks), will Taylor devote all his energies to being a coach, or will he try to squeeze in a few more years of competing himself at the international level? Given that he'll be 37 in 2028, probably unlikely he stays in till the next Olympic cycle however.

And while I'm clueless on how this works in practice, does it strike anyone else as curious that Taylor was catapulted into the top spot of a marquee program without (on paper) any full-time coaching experience? Even Cael (coming off his 2004 Olympic gold) had to do 3 years as an assistant coach to learn the ropes at Iowa State before he became the head coach there in 2007 and then jumped to Penn State 2 years later to be the top dog there.

John Smith himself went straight to OSU head coach in 1991 when he was only 26 and somehow still competed and won Olympic gold in 1992. Given the latter, I strongly suspect he may have been "head coach" in name only but was initially still focused on his own competition career and then heavily leaned on his more experienced assistant coaches until he came into his own in the top role.

One thing with John Smith, is it was Oklahoma State's prodigy stepping into the head coaching role, surrounded by the people who helped make him who he was, so there was a program continuity in the case of John Smith, a Cowboy leading Cowboys, surrounded by the Cowboys who helped make him. In this case, you've got a star competitor for one of their greatest enemies, a program which is threatening to eclipse Oklahoma State's place in history as the top wrestling program, handed the reigns with, as you said, zero coaching experience and with Coleman Scott seemingly having been in the wings specifically for the purpose of taking over the program.

If they sever their links with John Smith, that's potentially cutting off a huge swath of the Oklahoma State wrestling community from the program. It seems like a slap in the case to Coleman Scott, John Smith and maybe even to the Oklahoma State wrestlers who wanted to beat Penn State, rather than become Penn State.

As far as Jordan Burroughs, that's a fascinating prospect. With his name, he could have half of the battle won already in terms of recruiting power. University of Oklahoma and Iowa State could all use the help. Of course, there has to be incentive for him and with the rise of wrestling academies, if he was going to set down roots as a coach, he might take that route instead giving his potential earning power within the sport.

 

[ChickenBrother]

One thing with John Smith, is it was Oklahoma State's prodigy stepping into the head coaching role, surrounded by the people who helped make him who he was, so there was a program continuity in the case of John Smith, a Cowboy leading Cowboys, surrounded by the Cowboys who helped make him. In this case, you've got a star competitor for one of their greatest enemies, a program which is threatening to eclipse Oklahoma State's place in history as the top wrestling program, handed the reigns with, as you said, zero coaching experience and with Coleman Scott seemingly having been in the wings specifically for the purpose of taking over the program.

If they sever their links with John Smith, that's potentially cutting off a huge swath of the Oklahoma State wrestling community from the program. It seems like a slap in the case to Coleman Scott, John Smith and maybe even to the Oklahoma State wrestlers who wanted to beat Penn State, rather than become Penn State.

As far as Jordan Burroughs, that's a fascinating prospect. With his name, he could have half of the battle won already in terms of recruiting power. University of Oklahoma and Iowa State could all use the help. Of course, there has to be incentive for him and with the rise of wrestling academies, if he was going to set down roots as a coach, he might take that route instead giving his potential earning power within the sport.

Maybe I just don't understand the college dynamic - I've only casually followed the coaching scene over the years but I'm starting to get more interested now that my son is wrestling and will be applying to colleges in (gulp) 9 years. Is there really a creonte culture for college wrestlers and coaches? I would have thought a star like Taylor coming over from the current top team in Penn State would be seen as a boon for OSU. I get that starting out, he wouldn't yet have deep relationships with the assistant coaches nor OSU's fans and sponsors but that will come in time and in the mean time, he'd be great for recruiting. Why wouldn't it be like poaching any big name player or coach from a rival team, which happens all the time in college and pro sports? Cael turned his back on his alma mater in Iowa State when he left his head coaching job there to jump ship to Penn State and that seems to have worked out pretty great for him and his new team.

For sure it's a slap in the face for Coleman Scott, but why would it burn the bridge with John Smith? Sure he would have coached against Taylor in the past but athletes switch teams and jerseys all the time in sports.

 

[Kforcer]

Maybe I just don't understand the college dynamic - I've only casually followed the coaching scene over the years but I'm starting to get more interested now that my son is wrestling and will be applying to colleges in (gulp) 9 years. Is there really a creonte culture for college wrestlers and coaches? I would have thought a star like Taylor coming over from the current top team in Penn State would be seen as a boon for OSU. I get that starting out, he wouldn't yet have deep relationships with the assistant coaches nor OSU's fans and sponsors but that will come in time and in the mean time, he'd be great for recruiting. Why wouldn't it be like poaching any big name player or coach from a rival team, which happens all the time in college and pro sports? Cael turned his back on his alma mater in Iowa State when he left his head coaching job there to jump ship to Penn State and that seems to have worked out pretty great for him and his new team.

For sure it's a slap in the face for Coleman Scott, but why would it burn the bridge with John Smith? Sure he would have coached against Taylor in the past but athletes switch teams and jerseys all the time in sports.

I think it depends. The Cael Sanderson-Bobby Douglas thing was pretty complex, but it was clear that Bobby Douglas and some others did feel a betrayal when he jumped ship; I think that was sort of buried a little bit due to Sanderson's success and the hero worship many in the wrestling community had for him. And maybe other factors. But guys like Nate Carr and Kevin Jackson seemed to flock to Iowa State in the aftermath specifically as a sort of favor to Bobby Douglas and an expression of loyalty to him.

Honestly, wrestling as a sport isn't the biggest on honoring its history, IMO, but in the case of Oklahoma State, I think you do see more of a continuity between the past and present than you do with some other programs. Guys like Yojiro Uetake, Pat Smith and others seem to hold a perpetual place of honor there. But I really don't know, it could very well be that David Taylor will be nothing but a good thing recruitment wise. But it will be the end of a certain continuity, it seems, from the legendary Myron Roderick era that has essentially continued on unbroken until now.

I don't know, really, this is all speculation as far as what it will mean. Could just be a great thing. I mean, Oklahoma State is used to winning and invested in winning and the bottom-line will probably just come down to whether or not Taylor brings home the bacon that way. A lot of wrestling teams have gone with continuity to their great detriment, so maybe this is the way to go.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I think it depends. The Cael Sanderson-Bobby Douglas thing was pretty complex, but it was clear that Bobby Douglas and some others did feel a betrayal when he jumped ship; I think that was sort of buried a little bit due to Sanderson's success and the hero worship many in the wrestling community had for him. And maybe other factors. But guys like Nate Carr and Kevin Jackson seemed to flock to Iowa State in the aftermath specifically as a sort of favor to Bobby Douglas and an expression of loyalty to him.

Honestly, wrestling as a sport isn't the biggest on honoring its history, IMO, but in the case of Oklahoma State, I think you do see more of a continuity between the past and present than you do with some other programs. Guys like Yojiro Uetake, Pat Smith and others seem to hold a perpetual place of honor there. But I really don't know, it could very well be that David Taylor will be nothing but a good thing recruitment wise. But it will be the end of a certain continuity, it seems, from the legendary Myron Roderick era that has essentially continued on unbroken until now.

I don't know, really, this is all speculation as far as what it will mean. Could just be a great thing. I mean, Oklahoma State is used to winning and invested in winning and the bottom-line will probably just come down to whether or not Taylor brings home the bacon that way. A lot of wrestling teams have gone with continuity to their great detriment, so maybe this is the way to go.

I mean I can only imagine there are some smart, clued-in people at OSU who made this decision knowing how important their wrestling program is to the school, when they had one of their own legacies in Coleman Scott on deck for the job. As well that Taylor is obviously motivated to do right by his own career and legacy. The main thing that surprises me is how quickly this was finalized and announced. Smith had probably made it known internally that he would be retiring after this season but Taylor's Olympic plans only fell apart 2 weeks ago and before that surely he was too busy getting ready for the trials to be negotiating a fallback head coaching job as a plan B. I'm really curious who reached out to who and how that discussion went in the immediate aftermath of losing to Brooks.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Man’s not much of a thinker. He can wrestle, though.

@Kforcer if you hadn't seen it, @Dr J posted this in the NCAA thread earlier. Starocci throwing some heat at Taylor calling him a creonte. This may lead to more drama down the line but if you look at it from Taylor's perspective, it makes total sense. Man is 33, needs to pay the bills and just lost to Penn State’s new favored son at 189 lbs. Meanwhile Cael is only 44 and isn't going anywhere as head coach for a long long time. And Penn State being a super team with its own RTC, it's inevitable they will produce some stars that end up going elsewhere.

Starocci is only 23 and has 10+ years of international competition to look forward to, during which he will be heavily reliant on his coaches and support team. He doesn't yet have to face the reality of deciding what he wants to be when he grows up, and potentially ruffling some feathers in doing so.

 

[Kforcer]

@Kforcer if you hadn't seen it, @Dr J posted this in the NCAA thread earlier. Starocci throwing some heat at Taylor calling him a creonte. This may lead to more drama down the line but if you look at it from Taylor's perspective, it makes total sense. Man is 33, needs to pay the bills and just lost to Penn State’s new favored son at 189 lbs. Meanwhile Cael is only 44 and isn't going anywhere as head coach for a long long time. And Penn State being a super team with its own RTC, it's inevitable they will produce some stars that end up going elsewhere.

Starocci is only 23 and has 10+ years of international competition to look forward to, during which he will be heavily reliant on his coaches and support team. He doesn't yet have to face the reality of deciding what he wants to be when he grows up, and potentially ruffling some feathers in doing so.

For me, betraying Penn State is like betraying Scientology, The Empire, The Yankees, Cobra, The Decepticons or the Nazi Party...if anything, an act of great virtue. I was all behind Bubba Jenkins, for example and saw his NCAA title win as a win for good over evil. I just can't process the notion of Penn State as an entity to which the notion of loyalty applies.

 

[AZ103]

For me, betraying Penn State is like betraying Scientology, The Empire, The Yankees, Cobra, The Decepticons or the Nazi Party...if anything, an act of great virtue. I was all behind Bubba Jenkins, for example and saw his NCAA title win as a win for good over evil. I just can't process the notion of Penn State as an entity to which the notion of loyalty applies.

Youre joking but i tend to agree with the post. Cael has been screwing people over since he pushed Bobby Douglas out to take his hesd coaching position. You seem to know the history but he then turned his back on the entire program in just 3 years and then ousted bubba jenkins for taylor. Hes quiet but slimey.

 

[ChickenBrother]

For me, betraying Penn State is like betraying Scientology, The Empire, The Yankees, Cobra, The Decepticons or the Nazi Party...if anything, an act of great virtue. I was all behind Bubba Jenkins, for example and saw his NCAA title win as a win for good over evil. I just can't process the notion of Penn State as an entity to which the notion of loyalty applies.

At the end of the day unless you're a zealot, "betraying" an organization is only meaningful in terms of the personal relationships we have at that organization. Most of us (particularly 'Muricans who tend to be individualists) don't swear blind allegiance to a team without some qualifications. Oaths of office for U.S. military and politicians are generally to the U.S. Constitution with an obligation to obey the "lawful orders of those appointed over them" or something to that effect. i.e. it's to a set of principles rather than to a specific team.

If Cobra Commander or Darth Sidious became POTUS I would refuse to follow their fuckery. G1 Megatron though, that's a tough one. That dude was cool AF and was a lead from the front badass. Also he could transform into a Walther P-38 that shot laser blasts in the 40 watt range.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I was all behind Bubba Jenkins, for example and saw his NCAA title win as a win for good over evil. I just can't process the notion of Penn State as an entity to which the notion of loyalty applies.

Youre joking but i tend to agree with the post. Cael has been screwing people over since he pushed Bobby Douglas out to take his hesd coaching position. You seem to know the history but he then turned his back on the entire program in just 3 years and then ousted bubba jenkins for taylor. Hes quiet but slimey.

I guess I haven't followed the college coaching scene enough to get these references. According to his wiki, Bubba Jenkins left Penn State before his senior year because "Jenkins didn't feel comfortable with the way of teaching of Sanderson and Sanderson felt uncomfortable with the style of Jenkins. This caused him to transfer to Arizona State University.[7]"

Did Jenkins and Sanderson have a personality conflict? Sounds like Cael wanted to put redshirt freshman Taylor to start at 157 in favor of redshirt senior Jenkins? Was this based on a fair wrestle-off for the position between the two or is there more to the story? I understand Jenkins later pinned Taylor at the NCAA finals while repping ASU.

And I'm curious how Cael "screwed people over" by "pushing out Bobby Douglas." Wasn't Douglas Cael's coach at Iowa State and leading up Cael's Olympic gold in 2004? Douglas was 64 when 28 year old Cael took over head coaching role at Iowa State. Was that not just Douglas stepping down to retire in favor of his younger protege or is there more to the story?

 

[AZ103]

I guess I haven't followed the college coaching scene enough to get these references. According to his wiki, Bubba Jenkins left Penn State before his senior year because "Jenkins didn't feel comfortable with the way of teaching of Sanderson and Sanderson felt uncomfortable with the style of Jenkins. This caused him to transfer to Arizona State University.[7]"

Did Jenkins and Sanderson have a personality conflict? Sounds like Cael wanted to put redshirt freshman Taylor to start at 157 in favor of redshirt senior Jenkins? Was this based on a fair wrestle-off for the position between the two or is there more to the story? I understand Jenkins later pinned Taylor at the NCAA finals while repping ASU.

And I'm curious how Cael "screwed people over" by "pushing out Bobby Douglas." Wasn't Douglas Cael's coach at Iowa State and leading up Cael's Olympic gold in 2004? Douglas was 64 when 28 year old Cael took over head coaching role at Iowa State. Was that not just Douglas stepping down to retire in favor of his younger protege or is there more to the story?

Douglas did not step down. In his book he says "they fuckin fired me" and they did and it was because of Cael. Big head coaching positions were opening up across the country and ISU was afraid they would lose Sanderson. Sanderson met with administration and said "im either head at coach Iowa state or im leaving" so they fired his former coach and mentor Douglas and gave him what he wanted. 3 years later he takes the PSU job against everyones wishes and says God told him to fuck over everyone who had helped him and even bent over backwards to give him what he wanted.

As for Bubba, he was always better than freshman David Taylor but Cael didnt like his attitude and preffered Taylor to him. He basically forced Bubba out and that made the finals that year very very sweet when Jenkins pinned Taylor.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Douglas did not step down. In his book he says "they fuckin fired me" and they did and it was because of Cael. Big head coaching positions were opening up across the country and ISU was afraid they would lose Sanderson. Sanderson met with administration and said "im either head at coach Iowa state or im leaving" so they fired his former coach and mentor Douglas and gave him what he wanted. 3 years later he takes the PSU job against everyones wishes and says God told him to fuck over everyone who had helped him and even bent over backwards to give him what he wanted.

As for Bubba, he was always better than freshman David Taylor but Cael didnt like his attitude and preffered Taylor to him. He basically forced Bubba out and that made the finals that year very very sweet when Jenkins pinned Taylor.

If that's the long and the short of it (and I'd be interested in Cael's side of the story), that sounds like Jenkins and Douglas indeed got done dirty. But at least in Jenkins case, Sanderson was the new head coach charged with making those decisions and it doesn't sound like he had any prior relationship with Jenkins. But if he pushed out his own mentor who didn't want to retire, the guy who coached him to Olympic gold, that is some fuckery and unless there's more to the story, that makes Cael a straight up creonte in my book.

 

[ChickenBrother]

It sounds like Taylor is being given free rein to clean house and build his new OSU coaching team - bringing over Penn State guys as his assistant coaches. He's also claiming the OSU athletic director cold called him after his trials loss to make him an offer he couldn't refuse.

https://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-wrestling/article288449245.html

Honestly all of this sounds like a re-org in corporate America. College wrestling is a business and just like any for-profit business, the executives are thinking about their own careers and in terms of the bottom line. In my career I know I've been on the wrong end of re-orgs, lay-offs, getting hosed for promotion because someone else is better connected with the boss man. As long as all the players and coaches are free to ply their trade elsewhere, this sounds like a hate the game, not the player kind of situation.

 

[AZ103]

It sounds like Taylor is being given free rein to clean house and build his new OSU coaching team - bringing over Penn State guys as his assistant coaches. He's also claiming the OSU athletic director cold called him after his trials loss to make him an offer he couldn't refuse.

https://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-wrestling/article288449245.html

Honestly all of this sounds like a re-org in corporate America. College wrestling is a business and just like any for-profit business, the executives are thinking about their own careers and in terms of the bottom line. In my career I know I've been on the wrong end of re-orgs, lay-offs, getting hosed for promotion because someone else is better connected with the boss man. As long as all the players and coaches are free to ply their trade elsewhere, this sounds like a hate the game, not the player kind of situation.

I havent heard anyone be salty about this particular hire. Everyone seems excited. The Cael ISU, Penn st thing is different in that it involves personal betrayals and bull shit reasons.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I havent heard anyone be salty about this particular hire. Everyone seems excited. The Cael ISU, Penn st thing is different in that it involves personal betrayals and bull shit reasons.

Well Starocci basically called him a disloyal, fool-ass, bitch-made punk. But maybe he's just not the sharpest tool in the shed. Ironically Starocci himself said "there are no friends in this industry" in his interview after winning NCAAs last month, and that's after he spoke glowingly about his rehab specialists and coaching team at PSU.

 

[Kforcer]

At the end of the day unless you're a zealot, "betraying" an organization is only meaningful in terms of the personal relationships we have at that organization. Most of us (particularly 'Muricans who tend to be individualists) don't swear blind allegiance to a team without some qualifications. Oaths of office for U.S. military and politicians are generally to the U.S. Constitution with an obligation to obey the "lawful orders of those appointed over them" or something to that effect. i.e. it's to a set of principles rather than to a specific team.

If Cobra Commander or Darth Sidious became POTUS I would refuse to follow their fuckery. G1 Megatron though, that's a tough one. That dude was cool AF and was a lead from the front badass. Also he could transform into a Walther P-38 that shot laser blasts in the 40 watt range.

True on G1 Megatron, plus, Soundwave proved that loyalty to Megatron could be a pretty cool thing, given that literally nobody is cooler than Soundwave. At the same time, Destro is pretty cool too, even if he isn't exactly a Cobra employee and somehow, so are the Dreadnoks.

You have a point about organizations, but for the most part, isn't that how sports fans tend to behave, with more loyalty to the organization than the players? For example, Lions fans--supposedly "hardcore" fans--will hate the coach and the players more than anyone else for their lack of success and rather than hoping for a Rocky-like turnaround for the players, they will just as much just be hoping for them to be gotten rid of and replaced by better players and a better coach and look back on them with scorn for their failures.

As far as Sanderson, I think he definitely did betray Douglas on multiple levels, but at the same time, apparently he also does still have a reverence for him. I think maybe the guy is just a certain sort of person who doesn't necessarily understand relationships and loyalties in the same way that some other people might. I think the lack of blowback comes from the love people in the wrestling community have for Cael Sanderson. I remember sitting in the stands with Iowa Hawkeye fans--and you know how psycho they are--and they just couldn't wrap their mind around Cael Sanderson doing anything wrong to anyone ever. Reminds me of how my Dad--and he was a smart dude, English prof, etc--couldn't seem to comprehend the concept of Dan Gable or Iowa wrestling being "dirty"; it literally just didn't compute.

I also personally think he did treat Bubba Jenkins pretty poorly, though Bubba seems to have dropped his past grudge against Sanderson. And as you alluded to, wrestling coaches have tough decisions on their shoulders quite often. I love John Smith, but I totally see the argument for him having been in the wrong with what he did with his son Joe Smith as far as having him take the starting spot of another wrestler super-late in the game so that he could wrestle at what might be a better weight for him. Though it was in a wrestle-off, at least. I guess my point in bringing that up is just that coaches have a lot to navigate and deal with so I'm sure you're going to have situations where sometimes there's no easy decision and people are gonna feel like they got the short end of the stick.

 

[ChickenBrother]

True on G1 Megatron, plus, Soundwave proved that loyalty to Megatron could be a pretty cool thing, given that literally nobody is cooler than Soundwave. At the same time, Destro is pretty cool too, even if he isn't exactly a Cobra employee and somehow, so are the Dreadnoks.

You have a point about organizations, but for the most part, isn't that how sports fans tend to behave, with more loyalty to the organization than the players? For example, Lions fans--supposedly "hardcore" fans--will hate the coach and the players more than anyone else for their lack of success and rather than hoping for a Rocky-like turnaround for the players, they will just as much just be hoping for them to be gotten rid of and replaced by better players and a better coach and look back on them with scorn for their failures.

As far as Sanderson, I think he definitely did betray Douglas on multiple levels, but at the same time, apparently he also does still have a reverence for him. I think maybe the guy is just a certain sort of person who doesn't necessarily understand relationships and loyalties in the same way that some other people might. I think the lack of blowback comes from the love people in the wrestling community have for Cael Sanderson. I remember sitting in the stands with Iowa Hawkeye fans--and you know how psycho they are--and they just couldn't wrap their mind around Cael Sanderson doing anything wrong to anyone ever. Reminds me of how my Dad--and he was a smart dude, English prof, etc--couldn't seem to comprehend the concept of Dan Gable or Iowa wrestling being "dirty"; it literally just didn't compute.

I also personally think he did treat Bubba Jenkins pretty poorly, though Bubba seems to have dropped his past grudge against Sanderson. And as you alluded to, wrestling coaches have tough decisions on their shoulders quite often. I love John Smith, but I totally see the argument for him having been in the wrong with what he did with his son Joe Smith as far as having him take the starting spot of another wrestler super-late in the game so that he could wrestle at what might be a better weight for him. Though it was in a wrestle-off, at least. I guess my point in bringing that up is just that coaches have a lot to navigate and deal with so I'm sure you're going to have situations where sometimes there's no easy decision and people are gonna feel like they got the short end of the stick.

Soundwave was very cool. But sadly some within his own ranks considered him "unchrasamatic."



Destro was also pretty cool. I always found it hilarious that Zartan (who was also very cool) was this meticulous super competent master of disguise with a euro accent, but somehow he was in charge of a meathead red neck biker gang with Aussie accents who for some reason lived in the Louisiana Bayou.

I think diehard sports team fans fall into the zealot category. That's OK but it's not my style. I like to call a spade a spade and if someone does something shitty whether it's my favorite athlete or coach, a family member or myself, I'll call them on it. People are fallible. But to achieve the kind of success Cael et al have achieved, you have to be a little different. You don't go 159-0 at the D1 level without a crazy me-first competitive streak that probably borders on sociopathy.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

Of course the lapsed wrestling fan in me immediately thought it was Squire David Taylor.