Debt vs Savings

I hope no one still believes that you have to carry a balance on your credit card and pay interest to build your credit. Just use your card to buy shit and pay it all off at the end of every month and you'll wind up with nearly perfect credit.
 
No easy answers here, banks want you to use credit cards and then stay in debt by you paying off the minimum balance due each month. That is never a good idea.
 
I’ve gotten a few credit cards over the past few years that have 0% interest for like 18 months as well as 1.5% cash back. I carry debt in those and pay like $500/month or something. Extra cash can be put into a HYSA and earn ~5% interest.
 
Between my wife and I we currently have over 20 credit cards combined. Not once have we missed a payment and 100% of the spending was done organically. However because of all the sign-up bonuses (SUB), referral bonsues and the points earned through spend overtime we have saved tens of thousands of dollars travelling. We currently have about $10-12k worth of points available to use not to mention all the perks available from having the credit cards. Part of our stay coming up in Hawaii was booked all through points. 5 nights free where the cash price would be $2500 after taxes/fees. Not to mention I get $36 food/beverage credit daily and $250 free resort credit I can use at restaurants/spa/beach equipment/etc. We also already used up a lot of points to pay for our trip to Japan for 4 of us. Saved $4500. Also a couple nights at a hotel booked via points saving us another $500. Now I'm hoping I can find good award flight deals to Hong Kong for next Christmas break and then in 2025 will aim a trip to Europe and try to get all flights/hotels booked via points. My wife and I will do another run through a few credit cards each which will allow us to accumulate more points quickly via SUB and referral bonuses.

Also free pro tip. If you own a home and want to get a new credit card, but don't think you can meet the spending requirements for the SUB you can check to see if your county takes Paypal Bill to pay for your property tax. You can link your credit card to Paypal to pay off property taxes with a credit card and not pay any fees. Very easy way to meet the SUB since many people pay $5-15k+ worth of property taxes every year.

Also free pro tip #2. If you use Rakuten and have a AMEX card that accumulates MR (membership reward) points I would change your Rakuten to accumulate MR points instead of cash back. Why? Cash back is worth 1 cent per point (cpp) where 1 MR point is worth 1.5-2+ cpp.
 
Fuck the banks and the whole “interest”
Bullshit they peddle. If you want something, save for it. If your payments are going to be 400 bucks a month anyways then start saving that and then just pay cash for what you’re using credit for.

Cars? Buy used for cash and drive them til they die. Repeat until you’re rich enough to buy nice used cars for cash. If you are trying to buy a home, you can build your credit for the year or two it takes, get your mortgage, and then go back to a Cash model on everything except that one payment. And even then, do you have a mortgage and you pay it 13 times a year instead of 12 and focus on paying off your principal you can take nearly a decade off the loan
 
Is it better to have more in savings and keep some lines of credit running, or be debt free with less liquid cash?
Why would you finance cash? Makes no sense. The only moment debt makes sense is if you secured a long-term interest rate on a mortgage which is below what you can achieve on a diversified portfolio. In that case DO NOT repay your loan. Otherwise deleverage.
 
I hope no one still believes that you have to carry a balance on your credit card and pay interest to build your credit. Just use your card to buy shit and pay it all off at the end of every month and you'll wind up with nearly perfect credit.
I was going to say. I’ve never understood that advice. I’ve always paid my cc weekly and my score has consistently been in the high 700’s low 800’s.
 
Fuck the banks and the whole “interest”
Bullshit they peddle. If you want something, save for it. If your payments are going to be 400 bucks a month anyways then start saving that and then just pay cash for what you’re using credit for.

Cars? Buy used for cash and drive them til they die. Repeat until you’re rich enough to buy nice used cars for cash. If you are trying to buy a home, you can build your credit for the year or two it takes, get your mortgage, and then go back to a Cash model on everything except that one payment. And even then, do you have a mortgage and you pay it 13 times a year instead of 12 and focus on paying off your principal you can take nearly a decade off the loan

This was my mindset when I was younger and didn't have as much money, but honestly, I'm fairly opposite of that right now. I'm a S Corp. My main goal should be to reduce my taxable income. Rather than pump money to either my business debt (currently 6%) or my mortgage, max out investments reducing my taxable income. I also used to be all about having liquid funds, but I'm almost the opposite now. I've got a line of credit for that. I'd rather make my money work for me.

Advising debt vs savings varies drastically depending on many things. It's true that a lot of poor people are poor because of their debt, but a lot of wealthy people use debt to become wealthy.
 
I was going to say. I’ve never understood that advice. I’ve always paid my cc weekly and my score has consistently been in the high 700’s low 800’s.

If I had to guess it probably came from the credit card industry itself looking to make profits and back in the day it was a lot more difficult for people to check their credit scores.

A lot of it is pretty scammy. Like why does a hard credit inquiry lower your credit score? Makes zero sense from a logic standpoint. I think it's just a scam to ensure people take out the loan without backing out for fear that their credit score won't be as high if they change their mind and come back later.

There's definitely some benefits to using credit cards like the purchasing protection, rewards and not having to worry about carrying and losing a bunch of cash. The trade off is that they track all of your purchases, sell your information to creepy ass companies and build creepy profiles on you to learn as much about you as possible.
 
The only debt I have is Mortgage, and Car Payments. I will help my kids with their student debt when they graduate. But my liquidity has taken a hit with inflation. My pay stayed the same but everything else went up--taxes, food, entertainment, vacations, phones, landscaping, Gym, clothing etc. I used to go out to dinner once a week with friends. $100 with drinking for 2 no problem. Now it's $200 and i am not talking high end. To go to the movies is $50, sneaking food in. To go to a Hockey game for a family of 4 for cheap seats is 300 without food and drinks. A beer at my Islanders games is $18.50. Food shopping for 4 once a week was $220. Now it's practically doubled. My local pub charges $7 for light beer and $8 for seltzers. I stopped going.
 
This was my mindset when I was younger and didn't have as much money, but honestly, I'm fairly opposite of that right now. I'm a S Corp. My main goal should be to reduce my taxable income. Rather than pump money to either my business debt (currently 6%) or my mortgage, max out investments reducing my taxable income. I also used to be all about having liquid funds, but I'm almost the opposite now. I've got a line of credit for that. I'd rather make my money work for me.

Advising debt vs savings varies drastically depending on many things. It's true that a lot of poor people are poor because of their debt, but a lot of wealthy people use debt to become wealthy.
Fair points. I invest 6k in my Roth IRA annually but that’s the extent of my investing outside of my house and building my business. I’m comfortably middle class and as I get more breathing room I should be investing more.

It’s hard, that trauma of being poor sticks with you. Living paycheck to paycheck, dead end jobs, food stamps, evictions, overdraft fees, when you claw your way out of that there’s something about seeing 10-20k in your bank account that feels safe. Thats far more than anyone should have on hand when it could be in a high yield savings or invested.
in crypto, obviously.
 
If you’re in debt, you have negative dollars.
It’s always better to actually have money.

That said, you do want a few lines of credit open, and to use and pay them for small things and pay them off. That way you have a good credit score which is needed for buying a house or car.

You can use credit for large purchases too. But just make sure you know how much the interest will cost you, and that you have a plan to pay it off.

But having money in savings is always preferable.
 
All debt is bad. Gotta do a lot of mental gymnastics to justify it any other way. All debt is bad.
 
All debt is bad. Gotta do a lot of mental gymnastics to justify it any other way. All debt is bad.

This is a ridiculous mindset and something I would have probably said when I was in my younger 20's and ignorant. There are multiple reasons to hold onto debt and you'll find that many with wealth do exactly that.
 
Well my first step to sorting this out will be to stop being a shopholic
 
This is a ridiculous mindset and something I would have probably said when I was in my younger 20's and ignorant. There are multiple reasons to hold onto debt and you'll find that many with wealth do exactly that.

Outside of purchasing a home, I feel like you really need to know what you're doing in order to make holding on to debt worth it for you. If you aren't able to use your cash to invest and make more than the interest you're paying, then you're losing. I feel like most people aren't doing this. Especially if they're worried about building credit. Odds are if that's a worry of yours, you shouldn't be attempting to do anything risky with your money until you can get in a more stable situation.
 
Well my first step to sorting this out will be to stop being a shopholic
The first step or I should say preparation step is the create a budget, reduce expenses and set relastic goals. Stop being a shopaholic = reducing expenses. You need to set a budget because you need to see where your money is going. People wonder why they have no money or always broke. Create a budget and find out. You can find excel templates or now a days there are tons of apps that can help with this.

After this look at your essential spending. Mortgage/rent/utilities, food/groceries, essential items, healthcare, income earning expenses, paying minimal payments on debt/loans.

When you are done with this then you can start improving your financial status. Build a small emergency fund if you don't already have one. Roughly 1 month worth of expenses. Once you reach this stage I would make sure you hit the full match if your employer offers retirement matching in a 401k or similar.

Then pay off debt starting with the highest interest debt first or you can look at the benefits of avalanche vs snowball methods and see what would psychologically benefit you. Whatever the case is very high interest debt such as credit cards should be paid off asap.

Now depending on your situation you may want to look at ways to increase income (mainly if you have any major debt) even if that's temporary. Sacrifices need to be made if you want to get out of it. Also investing in more training/school/self learning so you can find a career with higher pay. This can often be worth it if you can get in the right program/career that can significantly increase your pay. IT, healthcare, trades are good examples. Getting into more debt may be worth it if you have a lower paying job and can enter a field that pays much more. I have many friends that have done it in healthcare. Nursing school, radiation tech/sonography school, PA school, etc. Not gonna get too into this as this is entire separate subject all together with tons of personal nuances to consider.

Once you can accomplish all of this you then increase emergency funds. Ideally 3-6 months. Maybe more if your have a family and your the sole provider (more so if you don't have the most stable job/career).

You can now move on to the next step of paying off moderate interest debt. There is nuance to this of course.

After all this is accomplished and you're out of the hole, you can start truly building wealth. Increasing retirement contributions. IRA's and employer plans. If you have a HDHP with a HSA that may be worth maxing out before contributing more to a 401k.

IMO if you have reached this point, continue to increase your income, continue to have leftover liquid funds year over year you can start contributing heavily or maxing retirement accounts, making larger contribution to 529 plans if you have kids, mega back door roth IRA if that applies to you and even investing in a taxable account, saving for other needs, real estate, etc.

I can promise you it's all worth it. My wife and I take personal finance very seriously and have been doing so for over 15 years. Because of it we are in a great financial position especially given our age.
 
Outside of purchasing a home, I feel like you really need to know what you're doing in order to make holding on to debt worth it for you. If you aren't able to use your cash to invest and make more than the interest you're paying, then you're losing. I feel like most people aren't doing this. Especially if they're worried about building credit. Odds are if that's a worry of yours, you shouldn't be attempting to do anything risky with your money until you can get in a more stable situation.

I agree that you need to know what you are doing, but it's not rocket science either. Most that are worried about credit score and such are probably in a position where they need to only worry about minimizing debt. Business owners, 1099 employees, people who have established some wealth, etc. should really look into or talk to an advisor. My business debt is 6% and I was going to make extra payments, but my financial guy really had to educate me on that. All profits from the company are taxed to me individually, even if I don't withdraw them. So in other words, money just sitting in the company, money that I'm paying back the business loan, etc. is running through as income to me personally. So obviously, this bumps my income quite a bit and puts me at a very high tax rate. Reducing tax liability is a huge concern.
 
This was my mindset when I was younger and didn't have as much money, but honestly, I'm fairly opposite of that right now. I'm a S Corp. My main goal should be to reduce my taxable income. Rather than pump money to either my business debt (currently 6%) or my mortgage, max out investments reducing my taxable income. I also used to be all about having liquid funds, but I'm almost the opposite now. I've got a line of credit for that. I'd rather make my money work for me.

Advising debt vs savings varies drastically depending on many things. It's true that a lot of poor people are poor because of their debt, but a lot of wealthy people use debt to become wealthy.
you are clearly in a different league, you have a lot you can write off/claim for tax, and most probably dont. if you have writeoffs, then debt can definitely become an advantage, if you dont, then pay it off.
 
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