Do you believe in the power of prayer?

Do I believe in the power of prayer (as something more than placebo)?

No.
 
I believe in the power of prayer. Of course, this does not mean a person can't die right after a prayer, it can happen.

In the past I put myself in some weird situations, and I could overcome it by praying.
 
I'm open to the idea that prayer has a use.
 
What about magical thinking?
 
Also exorcism. Been watching The Exorcist series, not too bad, it lead me to some googling and apparently real life exorcisms are on the rise.
 
The Templeton foundation has, on multiple occasions, spent millions of dollars on prayer studies. What they found was that the people who were being prayed for, and knew they were being prayed for, suffered more complications.

Prayer has no power, the placebo effect does.

Also, God is supposed to have planned out every aspect of time from the beginning, so why would you petition him to change his plan? asinine fortuity....
 
Rod1 said:
Not as in magical powers of healing and miracles but as something that its capable of deeply altering the human mind. And if you do, what do you think it wor

I was watching this video for example.

Its a doctor performing open heart surgery in Mexico's city the earthquake starts mid video.



Its basically they talking technical medical shit, then earthquake starts and after some swearing and when people seem to be panicking the main doctor starts to recite the catholic prayer "Our father" that seems to calm the fuck out of the individuals present in the room, and they go on and finish the surgery.

Now i started this thread because i felt a little panic watching the video but the prayer gives such a sense of serenity to me that i cant deny its soothing powers.

That being said, i dont think it has anything to do with the divine, maybe its a Pavlovian effect of so many times going to church and being immersed in the serenity of mass that the prayer triggers such sense of serenity and peace. Or maybe we are wired that way to find comfort in prayer which i guess is like a sort of meditation, where repeating these words over and over puts the mind in a trance like state.

Another reason to make this thread is to see if other religions have similar tools.

@ripskater Do evangelists have some defined prayers that you repeat over and over and over?
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Yes, I believe prayer has many positive effects - calming, becoming closer with god, there's even data that suggest prayer aids in healing.

Generally speaking, Evangelicals don't do repetitive prayers (5 Hail Marys and 3 Our Fathers). We typically pray about the specific situation we're dealing with, but we'll say the Lord's Prayer pretty often as general "go to" for most anything.
 
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hillelslovak87 said:
The Templeton foundation has, on multiple occasions, spent millions of dollars on prayer studies. What they found was that the people who were being prayed for, and knew they were being prayed for, suffered more complications.

Prayer has no power, the placebo effect does.

Also, God is supposed to have planned out every aspect of time from the beginning, so why would you petition him to change his plan? asinine fortuity....
Click to expand...

There are conflicting studies - I believe the one you're referring to involved heart patients and there was some thought that the complications arose because the patient felt stress over needing to recover quickly because they knew people were praying for that.

-https://books.google.com/books?id=jDKdZsErgfoC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=the+group+that+was+prayed+for+needed+less+ventilatory+assistance,+fewer+antibiotics&source=bl&ots=2JTt5hFWqj&sig=XEoj8zw2Z1SBMTbk-_616YjExpE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiYgqXTh_TWAhUE5YMKHbNvA7AQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=the%20group%20that%20was%20prayed%20for%20needed%20less%20ventilatory%20assistance%2C%20fewer%20antibiotics&f=false


-An exhaustive analysis of more than 1,500 reputable medical studies “indicates people who are more religious and pray more have better mental and physical health,” Dr. Koenig (Duke) says.


“And out of 125 studies that looked at the link between health and regular worship, 85 showed regular churchgoers live longer.

“There’s a lot of evidence out there.”
 
unimackpass said:
Wow, this is getting more interesting all the time. Orthodox / Catholic is basically where I'm at. I've heard it expressed as two lungs need for the fullest picture which has bin my experience. I love and need both expressions of spirituality. I love that book by the way. Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church has become part of a persons mind/experience.

Mystery/knowledge/experience. The blended fullness in a seamless way can only be learned and experienced through the living historic church. Seen all the other attempts,and while partly right, instinctively one knew something else was still to be found.

Fantastic you found some great spiritual mentors. Contemplative prayer is becoming more and more a focus in my life. Some orthodox friends want me to go to mount Athos with them. Also on Kodiak island there is a monastery I'm looking forward to visiting.

My iPad is dying so I better sign off. Would love to meet some of the people you're talking about. Will check in later.
Click to expand...


I had NEVER heard the two lungs idea. I have heard that among many priests from both traditions there is the feeling that nothing should really prevent the two traditions coming back together. I like the notion but would be concerned that Catholicism would swallow up Orthodox spirituality and I would not want that to happen.

I have had three mentors that were contemplate and Christian. The monk I presently see is the most advanced. If you are thinking about getting into contemplative prayer and there is a monastery near you maybe consider going out and meeting a few of the monks and picking up a spiritual director while you are at it. Having someone like that is just a treasure in your life.

Contemplative prayer is the single most important thing I have ever embarked upon. I have been doing it for over twenty years. Nothing I know of can replace it or make up for what it does in your soul.

I know you have heard of the born again experience as has everyone. The real beauty of contemplative prayer is that you never have to stop having those. In fact if you have only had one, even if it was years ago, you are considered to be a beginner. Only the contemplative paths offer reliable instruction built on Christ and the experience of the saints who went before us for attaining multiple awakenings that can lead to permanent union with God in this life.

I was raised by a new age astrologer mother and an atheist?agnostic father. My first ten years of meditation was more in the new age arena. Around 8 or 10 years into my practice I hit a very dark time and no one knew what to do about it. I knew many many people from the new age community-- most of them were trying to fix it for me.

I just happened to be running a small retreat at the monastery and met the monk I speak to now. Booked an appointment to see him, told him of my progress up to this point of utter darkness and asked what he thought. He pulled out Dark Night of the Soul by John of the cross and explained exactly where I was and how to navigate through it.

That began my interest into the Christian contemplative world and even though I did already know Jesus I did not know the Jesus of the bible, the Jesus of Christianity. This has been unimaginably sweet and deep for me. I am so grateful.

One of the ideas that has been so powerful to me is the experience of mystery in the Catholic tradition. God as mystery and apophaticism-- knowing God by negations and the beautiful darkness of mystery, the humility in it.... I had a moment today in relation to your post on the state of physics where I thought how beautiful and humbling it might be were we to discover that the universe might be ultimately unintelligible for us at the deepest levels....

Strange that mystery in the realm of spirituality can be so profoundly comforting but it seems to be so almost universally. Many people end up in the contemplative prayer center that I also attend who come from very fundamentalist backgrounds where there is definite knowledge about seemingly everything and you can see how that limits free thought and creativity and makes God so small for them. It is beautiful to see the relief that comes over these people as they learn that surrendering rigidly held ideas is a necessary pathway to God..... that ideas even when true are still just ideas.... the love of mystery that allows room for experience.

This makes room for simplicity and humility and more experience.
 
Anung Un Rama said:
"Give us your money" is a common evangelical prayer.
Click to expand...

osteen-church-theft.jpeg-1280x960.jpg
 
PainIsLIfe said:
There are conflicting studies - I believe the one you're referring to involved heart patients and there was some thought that the complications arose because the patient felt stress over needing to recover quickly because they knew people were praying for that.

-https://books.google.com/books?id=jDKdZsErgfoC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=the+group+that+was+prayed+for+needed+less+ventilatory+assistance,+fewer+antibiotics&source=bl&ots=2JTt5hFWqj&sig=XEoj8zw2Z1SBMTbk-_616YjExpE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiYgqXTh_TWAhUE5YMKHbNvA7AQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=the%20group%20that%20was%20prayed%20for%20needed%20less%20ventilatory%20assistance%2C%20fewer%20antibiotics&f=false


-An exhaustive analysis of more than 1,500 reputable medical studies “indicates people who are more religious and pray more have better mental and physical health,” Dr. Koenig (Duke) says.


“And out of 125 studies that looked at the link between health and regular worship, 85 showed regular churchgoers live longer.

“There’s a lot of evidence out there.”
Click to expand...

It seems like people are getting the benefits of prayer despite prayer not actually doing anything. The placebo effect is kind of well known by now. If prayer really did anything, people would not confine their prayers, health wise for example, to conditions that are already self limiting. Nobody prays for their arm to grow back, for instance.
 
hillelslovak87 said:
It seems like people are getting the benefits of prayer despite prayer not actually doing anything. The placebo effect is kind of well known by now. If prayer really did anything, people would not confine their prayers, health wise for example, to conditions that are already self limiting. Nobody prays for their arm to grow back, for instance.
Click to expand...

Maybe they should pray for their arm to grow back.
 
prayers are a good placebo.

though, placebo's will not cure some things, nor will divine intervention apparently. amputations, for example. no amount of prayer will bring your arm back.
 
franklinstower said:
I had NEVER heard the two lungs idea. I have heard that among many priests from both traditions there is the feeling that nothing should really prevent the two traditions coming back together. I like the notion but would be concerned that Catholicism would swallow up Orthodox spirituality and I would not want that to happen.

I have had three mentors that were contemplate and Christian. The monk I presently see is the most advanced. If you are thinking about getting into contemplative prayer and there is a monastery near you maybe consider going out and meeting a few of the monks and picking up a spiritual director while you are at it. Having someone like that is just a treasure in your life.

Contemplative prayer is the single most important thing I have ever embarked upon. I have been doing it for over twenty years. Nothing I know of can replace it or make up for what it does in your soul.

I know you have heard of the born again experience as has everyone. The real beauty of contemplative prayer is that you never have to stop having those. In fact if you have only had one, even if it was years ago, you are considered to be a beginner. Only the contemplative paths offer reliable instruction built on Christ and the experience of the saints who went before us for attaining multiple awakenings that can lead to permanent union with God in this life.

I was raised by a new age astrologer mother and an atheist?agnostic father. My first ten years of meditation was more in the new age arena. Around 8 or 10 years into my practice I hit a very dark time and no one knew what to do about it. I knew many many people from the new age community-- most of them were trying to fix it for me.

I just happened to be running a small retreat at the monastery and met the monk I speak to now. Booked an appointment to see him, told him of my progress up to this point of utter darkness and asked what he thought. He pulled out Dark Night of the Soul by John of the cross and explained exactly where I was and how to navigate through it.

That began my interest into the Christian contemplative world and even though I did already know Jesus I did not know the Jesus of the bible, the Jesus of Christianity. This has been unimaginably sweet and deep for me. I am so grateful.

One of the ideas that has been so powerful to me is the experience of mystery in the Catholic tradition. God as mystery and apophaticism-- knowing God by negations and the beautiful darkness of mystery, the humility in it.... I had a moment today in relation to your post on the state of physics where I thought how beautiful and humbling it might be were we to discover that the universe might be ultimately unintelligible for us at the deepest levels....

Strange that mystery in the realm of spirituality can be so profoundly comforting but it seems to be so almost universally. Many people end up in the contemplative prayer center that I also attend who come from very fundamentalist backgrounds where there is definite knowledge about seemingly everything and you can see how that limits free thought and creativity and makes God so small for them. It is beautiful to see the relief that comes over these people as they learn that surrendering rigidly held ideas is a necessary pathway to God..... that ideas even when true are still just ideas.... the love of mystery that allows room for experience.

This makes room for simplicity and humility and more experience.
Click to expand...

Simplicity and humility is like a cornerstone to build on.

My first experience with christianity was contemplative in nature. I was in my early 20s and ended up with a New Testament while commercial fishing in the Aleutian Islands. I had no idea what a New Testament was and told the person I wanted the original bible, nothing new.

Anyway I started reading and pondering for months surrounded by nature in a awesome form. I was primed for that experience in ways it's hard to explain. Life experience including studying geology, oceanography, evolution and philosophy really caused more questions and wonder than i would have thought possible.

Also my dad was a hunting guid and fisherman so I had pursued that part of my dream to the max. My mom lived in the Reno/Tahoe area so I experienced the skiing party world where rich beautiful women loved ski racers and instructors. Traveled extensively sometimes living in youth hostels where people wanted to practice their english and hear stories about alaska.

It was all good, almost to good. Some crazy things also. My dad having a 19yr old girlfriend and living with her for 7yrs starting when I was in Jr high wasn't always the best memories. He sometimes like to party and fight. Another story and life on it's own with the good bad and ugly.

So it all set the stage that was pivotal in my life. To this day I remember it being a time of experiencing the transcendent. Unexplainable vastness and closeness, you in the truth and the truth in you.
The ocean has become at times a sort of monastery in my life. Riding out weather and spiritual contemplation is a opportunity to experience something pretty incredible.

I was lost where to go next because I never associated Christianity or Church with a living spiritual experience until I met people that realized what had happened.

It was because of what happened that I knew what happened to my sister was real. She was overwhelmed with a transcendent experience of Christ's love for five days that literally changed her life. She was literally transfixed for hours hardly knowing what was going on around her.

What's amazing, as you know, a person as a result of these times becomes even more practical and functional.
 
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