Opinion Do you ever wonder if the Enlightenment was a mistake?

[calavera2]

Two steps above the people in the OP and one above you.

Lol, as expected. Let there be no doubt in the company of men you would be with the luggage behind the women and children.

 

[650lb Sumo]

Venezuela didn't happen? what about Nicaragua? the coup by Castillo? the attempts of Evo Morales to stick to power? AMLO militarization of Mexico?

Left wing authoritarianism is a huge threat to Latin America.

The CIA definitely agrees:

 

[Spam On Rye]

Seems pretty clear secular humanism is a wash. The Kantian rift did us in and has made the myth of progress the goal.

 

[Natural Order]

 

[Rod1]

The CIA definitely agrees:

Weird, because all Latin American democracies are capitalist, meanwhile Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua are brutal dictatorships.

 

[Andy Capp]

Venezuela didn't happen? what about Nicaragua? the coup by Castillo? the attempts of Evo Morales to stick to power? AMLO militarization of Mexico?

Left wing authoritarianism is a huge threat to Latin America.

With all due respect to your better knowledge of "the situation on the ground", as it were, what in the actual fuck is left wing authoritarianism if it isn't it actually right wing authoritarianism falsely purporting to be left wing?

 

[Rod1]

With all due respect to your better knowledge of "the situation on the ground", as it were, what in the actual fuck is left wing authoritarianism if it isn't it actually right wing authoritarianism falsely purporting to be left wing?

I call them what they identify themselves as.


Venezuela, Cuba are outright socialist, Nicaragua is run by former Sandinista leader Ortega, Castillo used to be from the Shining path, Evo party is called "Movement to socialism" and AMLO self-identifies as left wing and calls his enemies "conservatives".

 

[blackheart]

Conservatism is fundamentally about rejecting the enlightenment. That's literally how conservatism was birthed and it holds true to this day.

So yes, plenty of people "wonder" if the enlightenment was a mistake by explicitly rejecting it, and they're all idiots.

 

[blackheart]

The biggest problem with Democracy (at least ours in the US) is how completely and utterly intertwined it is with money. Most problems in this country can be traced back to greedy fuck stains valuing money over humanity, both inside and outside government. This is the defining trait of the United States of America at this point. Profit over people.

Unfettered free market Capitalism is a horrible economic system, and that's self-evident at this point. The right's "the free market will solve everything!" talking point from back in the day has become a tired joke. Here's what you get without heavy government regulation:

Monopolies.
An ever-increasing wealth gap leading to class warfare.
Poorer-made products that become increasingly expensive, especially from the standpoint of buying power, since wages will always steadily drop (this is by design).
Fewer jobs, since companies will outsource production to the cheapest area in order to boost profits.
Massive environmental pollution leading to death and disease.
A food industry that is more interested in money than nutrition, leading to an enormously unhealthy population.
Cyclical economic recessions / depressions, and collapses like the housing market (which was directly caused by a lack of regulation).

Most Conservatives don't want to admit these things are true, but I defy any of you on this forum to argue the point.

The enlightenment kicked dictators (kings) out of government power but left them in the workplace. Socialism is the completion and fulfillment of the enlightenment's promises.

 

[The_Renaissance]

I find it quite hard to disagree with most of the 5 "pillars". Except for Equality to an extent. Everyone isn't born equal or deserved of equals. I'm talking scumbags here. Ian Huntley is not my fucking equal he is a million leagues below me as a human being and doesn't deserve the same quality of life or rights. I do understand though that that's not really what that "pillar" means I'm just nitpicking.

 

[Andy Capp]

I call them what they identify themselves as.


Venezuela, Cuba are outright socialist, Nicaragua is run by former Sandinista leader Ortega, Castillo used to be from the Shining path, Evo party is called "Movement to socialism" and AMLO self-identifies as left wing and calls his enemies "conservatives".

Yeah, but China calls itself a "People's Republic" and North Korea describes itself as democratic. That's pretty much my point.

 

[Rod1]

Yeah, but China calls itself a "People's Republic" and North Korea describes itself as democratic. That's pretty much my point.

Your point isn't lost on me, to me fascists and socialists are virtually undistinguishable in practice, but if you call nazis left wing or call commies right wing, people get mad, so who knows what makes left or right.

So commies are left wing and nazis are right wing based on consensus more than any sort of logical classification.

 

[blackheart]

Weird, because all Latin American democracies are capitalist, meanwhile Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua are brutal dictatorships.

Such a misrepresentation and oversimplification, but whatever. Go ahead and invent your own reality that the CIA didn't do a number of brutal murderous coups in Latin America, which severely destabilized it.

Material realities played no hand in shaping what happened to Cuba, Venezuela, etc. No no. It's simply that the "bad" ideologies won out. Liberal idealism is beyond childish.

 

[blackheart]

Your point isn't lost on me, to me fascists and socialists are virtually undistinguishable in practice,

Lmaooo

Group 1 - we want to exterminate everyone that doesn't look like us
Group 2 - we want to free all people from every form of oppression
You - "these two things are virtually indistinguishable"

Liberalism is an infantile disorder.

 

[Rod1]

Such a misrepresentation and oversimplification,

Oversimplification is blaming the CIA for every single bad thing that happens.

but whatever. Go ahead and invent your own reality that the CIA didn't do a number of brutal murderous coups in Latin America, which severely destabilized it.

And yet coincidentally its the countries where the CIA coups failed that are authoritarian shitholes with no democracy or future except misery.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Sounds like TS just needs a strong man to hold him and tell him what to do

 

[Rod1]

Group 1 - we want to exterminate everyone that doesn't look like us

Group 2 - we want to free all people from every form of oppression by exterminating anyone who doesn't thinks exactly the way we do and if our policies are causing widespread misery and famine its clearly a CIA work so lets double down on repression and misery.

Fixed that for you.

The only difference between Fascists and Commies is that Fascists at least are honest about what they do, Commies just claim all the shit they do is for the "greater good".

 

[blackheart]

Oversimplification is blaming the CIA for every single bad thing that happens.


And yet coincidentally its the countries where the CIA coups failed that are authoritarian shitholes with no democracy or future except misery.

Yeah, it's almost as if being cut off from the world's largest economy, that's also in your backyard, just because you have an economic system that protects your natural resources and doesn't allow for them to be plundered by foreign capital, might have negative effects. Idk man. Just a thought.

If your economic system of choice is so fucking incredible, why does it have to be imposed on others down the barrel of a gun? Why does it have to be forced on smaller nations with the threat of economic isolation? Because capitalism demands imperialism. Capitalism cannot exist without imperialism and a permanent slave class. Such a beautiful wholesome system you have chosen to champion.

 

[Rod1]

Yeah, it's almost as if being cut off from the world's largest economy, that's also in your backyard,

Venezuela wasn't sanctioned until well after they were broke as fuck, and most sanctions are against military institutions that massacre civilians with impunity or related to drug dealing.

just because you have an economic system that protects your natural resources and doesn't allow for them to be plundered by foreign capital, might have negative effects. Idk man. Just a thought.

LOL, tell me you know shit, without telling me you know shit, Venezuela always worked with foreign firms to extract oil and loves to give freebies to Cuba, Russia and anyone willing to support the regime.

Nicaragua is not even sanctioned, US just let Ortega become a dictator there, since he pretty much doesn't seems to care much about anything happening outside of Nicaragua.

If your economic system of choice is so fucking incredible, why does it have to be imposed on others down the barrel of a gun?

This is bait, nobody can be this unaware.

 

[blackheart]

Fixed that for you.

The only difference between Fascists and Commies is that Fascists at least are honest about what they do, Commies just claim all the shit they do is for the "greater good".

You are the epitome of the dumb fuck self identified "independent" voter that votes down a party line one side or the other. You're just so enlightened and above it all.

You've never read deeply on fascism, or communism. You've never read any political theory at all, I'm willing to bet. Which is why your political analysis of Latin America amounts to "the bad ideas won out so bad things happened".

Unlike right wingers, you're just smart enough to actually read and skim through your favorite Vox and Nate Silver articles, and have a baseline level of alignment with reality. But you're just dumb enough to have never read deeply of any political theory.