Dropping the hand when throwing a high kick

[I am Shogun Rua]

It's actually kind of a simple concept. Swinging your hand the opposite way of the kick would take away power because it's a motion that goes against the kick. If any hand movement were to assist in the strength of the kick, it would be swinging the hand the same way you're kicking.

You are serious? lol. You swing you arm so that it aids in the turning of your hips. My instructor was just going over this with me 2 hours ago. Do you even train?

 

[quikkick]

HUH?! I'm certain you're joking.

Let's see...so even though all the Thai's arguably kick harder than anyone on the planet with that kick, they have it wrong?

Power comes from balance. The arm itself doesn't assist directly in power generation, it assists as a means of maintaining good balance throughout the kick. If you don't NEED to throw the arm back then no big deal. Either method is fine, it really should be based on which on you are more comfortable with.

End of thread.

 

[SpineBreaker]

You are serious? lol. You swing you arm so that it aids in the turning of your hips. My instructor was just going over this with me 2 hours ago. Do you even train?

Yeah, I do fucko. I wouldn't be wasting my time here if I didn't feel like I had a chance of making some people think differently from the vast majority of people who think "hurr durr Muay Thai is da best".

 

[vjvj]

Why am I not surprised that this thread hit 21 pages.

You can throw a kick either way, there are tradeoffs to both methods.

Plus, how you set up the kick and positioning are far more important factors than what you do with your hands IMHO. If you don't set up your kick, you're gonna get countered regardless of your hand positioning.

 

[Inquisitus]

It's actually kind of a simple concept. Swinging your hand the opposite way of the kick would take away power because it's a motion that goes against the kick. If any hand movement were to assist in the strength of the kick, it would be swinging the hand the same way you're kicking.

Even Shotokan guys use an "arm throwing down" motion for their round kicks. See 3:01 to 3:04 and 3:54 to 3:57 of the following.



This motion is bigger in Muay Thai to allow for more hip rotation as can be seen in 0:05 to 0:14 of the following.



Next time when you walk, swing the same side arm as the leg going forward in the same direction (left leg going forward + left arm swing forward). That is what you're describing. Walking this way looks robotic.

When you walk normally, the arms swing in the opposite direction to legs. When you step forward with your left foot, your left shoulder & arm swings backwards. This is the same idea as a kick except more exaggerated.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Sigh..... I think people are willing to argue this to the death because they either think their method is the only way to kick properly because their coach. sensei, sifu etc,etc, instructed them this way or told them this was the only right way.

If it's the latter they need this.

 

[shinkyoku]

^^ seconded.

And kyokushin kicking -with the arm swinging down.

you will see both ways done in any kicking sports. As long as you can get power into the kick, its all good.

 

[SpineBreaker]

Even Shotokan guys use an "arm throwing down" motion for their round kicks. See 3:01 to 3:04 and 3:54 to 3:57 of the following.



This motion is bigger in Muay Thai to allow for more hip rotation as can be seen in 0:05 to 0:14 of the following.



Next time when you walk, swing the same side arm as the leg going forward in the same direction (left leg going forward + left arm swing forward). That is what you're describing. Walking this way looks robotic.

When you walk normally, the arms swing in the opposite direction to legs. When you step forward with your left foot, your left shoulder & arm swings backwards. This is the same idea as a kick except more exaggerated.

But not even all Shotokan people do it the same. But aside from that, you found an old video of guys in wide stances who seem to be kicking mostly with their legs (as opposed to using the hips to power the movement, I mean). I mean, honestly, watch that triple kick in slow motion. Especially the last one, the way his foot goes all over the place. Probably not a great video to judge on.

Also, I like the snapshot from the embedding of that Muay Thai kick. That picture on the left perfectly captures the moment you can get him.

 

[nakmuay84]

It's actually kind of a simple concept. Swinging your hand the opposite way of the kick would take away power because it's a motion that goes against the kick. If any hand movement were to assist in the strength of the kick, it would be swinging the hand the same way you're kicking.

ROTFL

you don't train MT or Kyokushin, don't you?
do you run? walk?

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

facepalm

why are people comparing kicking to running? LOL

a kick is a damn kick and you know the only thing you can compare a kick to?

say it with me...

A KICK!

mr hug seemed do fine with out dropping his hand low in these pics

GASP HE DID KK AND MT TOO!!!

 

[nakmuay84]

he's definitely dropping his kicking-side hand!
anyway, just try to do a roundhouse kick swinging your arm in the direction of the kick

 

[SpineBreaker]

I wasn't saying that's how you should do it. I was saying if moving your arm really does affect the power of the kick, moving it in the same direction as the kick should add power, not moving it opposite.

I'm trained not to move my hands at all. You could telegraph the kick that way.

 

[I am Shogun Rua]

I wasn't saying that's how you should do it. I was saying if moving your arm really does affect the power of the kick, moving it in the same direction as the kick should add power, not moving it opposite.

I'm trained not to move my hands at all. You could telegraph the kick that way.

What do you train?

 

[SAAMAG]

Yeah, I do fucko. I wouldn't be wasting my time here if I didn't feel like I had a chance of making some people think differently from the vast majority of people who think "hurr durr Muay Thai is da best".

Why would you try to convince people that muay thai wasn't the best?! Everyone but you knows that it is! :icon_twis

 

[Inquisitus]

facepalm

why are people comparing kicking to running? LOL

a kick is a damn kick and you know the only thing you can compare a kick to?

It's mechanics. Your upper body has to rotate in the opposite the direction that your hip is turning. Goes back to the "simple" idea that

moving your arm really does affect the power of the kick, moving it in the same direction as the kick should add power, not moving it opposite.

 

[Inquisitus]

But not even all Shotokan people do it the same. But aside from that, you found an old video of guys in wide stances who seem to be kicking mostly with their legs (as opposed to using the hips to power the movement, I mean). I mean, honestly, watch that triple kick in slow motion. Especially the last one, the way his foot goes all over the place. Probably not a great video to judge on.

Do you think your hips move in isolation to your shoulders/upper body in a round kick? That was the point with the comparison to walking. If you have to do that while walking and even running, you'd have to the same thing in the more complex action that is the round kick

Even Kagawa does it. Watch the position of his kicking side shoulder at the end of the kick.

Also, I like the snapshot from the embedding of that Muay Thai kick. That picture on the left perfectly captures the moment you can get him.

You would also absorb a full power body kick while the guy leans back and parries with his supporting side hand. Try some contact sparring sometime.

 

[SpineBreaker]

What do you train?

Shotokan, that's why I'm debating how to kick in this topic. The only reason I made this account was to give my input on a question like this, or to help someone out if they ask about Shotokan itself. I just hope I don't come off as arrogant in the process. All I'm really doing is trying to share ideas.

Do you think your hips move in isolation to your shoulders/upper body in a round kick? That was the point with the comparison to walking. If you have to do that while walking and even running, you'd have to the same thing in the more complex action that is the round kick

Even Kagawa does it. Watch the position of his kicking side shoulder at the end of the kick.

Again, that video doesn't mean anything because we do it differently. When we pull our leg up, we bring the heel as far back as we can, touching the butt if we can. His knee also seems to go a little past the point where I think you lose power.

 

[Steakeater**]

I wasn't saying that's how you should do it. I was saying if moving your arm really does affect the power of the kick, moving it in the same direction as the kick should add power, not moving it opposite.

I'm trained not to move my hands at all. You could telegraph the kick that way.

NO, because while you are adding more weight (mass) into your kick that way, there is no acceleration without arm swing

f=ma

 

[DrBdan]

My trainer is a retired professional fighter from Thailand. He had around 100 fights and won 90% percent of them. He tells me to drop my hand, so I do. It works pretty well for me.

 

[Inquisitus]

Shotokan, that's why I'm debating how to kick in this topic. The only reason I made this account was to give my input on a question like this, or to help someone out if they ask about Shotokan itself. I just hope I don't come off as arrogant in the process. All I'm really doing is trying to share ideas.

I did Shotokan too before switching to kickboxing. I think a lot of us advocating "dropping the hand" in this forum started off in a TMA. We do understand the biomechanics of the different styles.

I found traditional (not tournament style) Shotokan roundhouse very similar for some reason. Probably because the hip does the exact same rotation in the Shotokan kick as the MT/KB kick.

BTW, which Shotokan org do you "belong" to?

Again, that video doesn't mean anything because we do it differently. When we pull our leg up, we bring the heel as far back as we can, touching the butt if we can. His knee also seems to go a little past the point where I think you lose power.

Bringing your heel to touch your butt actually means you have to do more rotation of the hip. That doesn't change the fact that the hip has to rotate from hanmi to gyaku-hanmi.

Kagawa's technique is pretty orthodox Shotokan. He should, he's the JKS's chief technical instructor.