Duck Alert! Hearn Low Balls Ortiz - fight is off

[Kevster]

There is a difference sometimes between guaranteed base purse and overall take home pay, some fighters can opt for a higher guarantee, instead of base pay + instead of smaller slice of PPV,.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Kovalev_vs._Andre_Ward
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Ward_vs._Sergey_Kovalev_II

shows elements of this flexibility



The rematch wasn't immediate, (which is why I put the word immediate in bold twice, in my previous post)

If it's not immediate, that means a rematch clause likely hasn't been triggered, so it's a new round of negotiation, largely from scratch.



Bottomline

There is little reason for whyte to be a b side in a rematch after having beaten AJ, an even less reason for wilder, seeing as Hearn admits Wilder is a bigger name in the US

Well the Ward vs Kovalev example is useless as only Wards final purse is announced in those links, so the A side was who exactly.

No that isn’t the bottom line it’s your opinion and nothing more and it’s an opinion which can be comfortably disputed.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

True but AJ fighting himself does less than 500,000 buys.

there seems to be plenty of guys willing to take a career high payday and opportunity of being HW champion. Joshua is going to have an opponent, it’s not even in doubt

Fck dillian white and Ortiz. Whyte will probably never fight for the title based on his decision. Wilder won’t fight him! Ortiz is being lined up by wilder again, probably so he can say he’s got 2 ranked wins.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

@cocksure

A.J has an opponent, so yet again all the top HW's walked away from a career best payday.

They are trying to shut down Eddie Hearn at all costs and they aren't even subtle about it anymore. Listen to Shelly Finkel when he's talking about negotiating with Hearn, it becomes clear very quickly that everything he does is about sticking it to Eddie and nothing to do with making A.J vs Wilder actually happen. It's the biggest fight in the division against its biggest star and Eddie has made it clear he isn't afraid to risk him against the best, but here we are again and all the top HW's are bailing left and right on it

then they take fights with inferior opponents for less money and still many fans want to side with them?

I'm lost

And they are cutting their nose off to spite thier face as well. Most top HWs (who arent shook) will fight Joshua over wilder because he’s viewed as the champion, has 3 of the 4 and brings far more money to the table. Finkel is only hurting himself and his fighter, and they look scared to share a ring with Joshua. I expect wilder to go back to fighting mugs or guys he’s already beat! Not a good look for a HW champion

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Ok, thats a reasonable opinion but I still think whoever the opponent, the fee should match Miller, why not?
And Whyte refused a fee, in-house fighter? Now thats a big fight, so the 'lowball' isnt all imaginary.

Why are you so sure that Ortiz was offered less than miller?
Do you know exactly what miller was being paid for this 1 fight? Do we actually know what Ortiz was offered?
When it comes out I garuntee that he wasn’t offered less. He doesn’t want the fight, it’s absolutely apparent

 

[Jonny Ninja]

That's the point , we can tell that AJ and his team offered a fake/phoney/bs contract to wilder. Whyte complained about the same problem, where even if they win, they are the b side in an IMMEDIATE rematch, this flies in the face of what normally happens in boxing, even Leon spinks in his 9th professional fight was the A side against one of the biggest draws in boxing history (muhammed ali), why? Because he won the first fight Leon Spinks vs. Muhammad Ali II, or Hasim Rahman vs. Lennox Lewis II or Evander Holyfield vs. Mike Tyson II, these legends knew they had to be the b side, in an IMMEDIATE if they lost the first fight. For AJ and his team, to try to buck this trend, shows they have been lowballing, fake/wrestlemania/phoney/avengers endgame/bogus contract offers that morally deserve to be rejected.

I only hope Ortiz hasn't faced the similar, one sided, illusionary contract offers, we want to see the big fights, not gutless posturing. Imagine being arguably offered a worse offer than spinks in his 9th pro fight.

Hopefully this can be sorted, AJ and his team should back their guy, rather than ducking for cover, with some of these smokescreen, smoke and mirror offers against potentially dangerous opponents.

So your claiming the 100m from dazn to wilder was bullshit? No ones claimed that. Even wilder appears to agree it’s genuine. So fighters aren’t being lowballed, they are too scared to lose, even for far more money than they are worth.

 

[HardasNAILZ]

So your claiming the 100m from dazn to wilder was bullshit? No ones claimed that. Even wilder appears to agree it’s genuine. So fighters aren’t being lowballed, they are too scared to lose, even for far more money than they are worth.

Correct, absolute shit bags they are. Fuck them.

 

[Canelo]

Can everyone just admit that there's a huge problem with Haymon and Finkel here?

Listen to all of their discourse l, they don't want to work with Hearn, way too much ego and bitterness.

Eddie Hearn is one of the most open promoters of all time, he has regular in depth interviews, he's been on podcasts getting grilled by Britsh boxing fans for hours, he always produces evidence and also produces results. It's no coincidence his fighters make the fights we all want to see.

It's pathetic that he is apparently the slimeball in all of this, about time people admitted some uncomfortable truths.

 

[Leote5]

Meh

Ortiz roider

 

[PUO3]

Can everyone just admit that there's a huge problem with Haymon and Finkel here?

Listen to all of their discourse l, they don't want to work with Hearn, way too much ego and bitterness.

Eddie Hearn is one of the most open promoters of all time, he has regular in depth interviews, he's been on podcasts getting grilled by Britsh boxing fans for hours, he always produces evidence and also produces results. It's no coincidence his fighters make the fights we all want to see.

It's pathetic that he is apparently the slimeball in all of this, about time people admitted some uncomfortable truths.

Im rather blown away tbh.

There were offers that opened negotiations that I didnt agree with, and that I did think were low. Flat fee for Wilder, Whyte’s offer, Ortiz’ opening offer, etc. But aside from Whyte, those offers were brought up to, imo, very acceptable numbers. In Wilders case I think its an outstanding offer, I believe we all agree there.

My question is what in the fuck is being fed to these guys behind the scenes that make them say no? Maybe there are some guys that legit dont want to fight AJ, but Ive got a hard time buying that. Its the nature of fighters to think theyre the best and need to prove the outcome.

Its got to be some elite level bullshitting by Finkel etc to get these offers turned down. Theres just no way theyll be able to replicate those dollar figures. Hell, I dont even think Arum will be able to produce what Fury’s contract says.

 

[MuayThai101]

I don't even know why Miller got that amount in the first place. Good for him, but all they did was set the market price.

If Miller is worth $6.5M, and he's barely top 10, then Luis Ortiz is worth at least that amount.

They were probably trying to give Luis like $1M knowing full well he would decline that pathetic offer. Their excuse would be "Well it's 2x what you got against Wilder"... Expect circumstances were different and so was the market. Wilder got $2M for that fight. So getting $500K didn't seem so bad.

AJ is making $35M and Miller was set to make $6.5M... Luis should've gotten somewhere around that as well.

Boxrec has Miller at 6 and Ortiz at 7...

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Im rather blown away tbh.

There were offers that opened negotiations that I didnt agree with, and that I did think were low. Flat fee for Wilder, Whyte’s offer, Ortiz’ opening offer, etc. But aside from Whyte, those offers were brought up to, imo, very acceptable numbers. In Wilders case I think its an outstanding offer, I believe we all agree there.

My question is what in the fuck is being fed to these guys behind the scenes that make them say no? Maybe there are some guys that legit dont want to fight AJ, but Ive got a hard time buying that. Its the nature of fighters to think theyre the best and need to prove the outcome.

Its got to be some elite level bullshitting by Finkel etc to get these offers turned down. Theres just no way theyll be able to replicate those dollar figures. Hell, I dont even think Arum will be able to produce what Fury’s contract says.

I dont like accusing guys of juicing without proof but I think theres a good chance Ortiz can’t take the fight short notice? Logically it can only be that surely? & I think short notice against a skilled southpaw counterpuncher actually benefits Ortiz, not Joshua

I think these guys are definately being used by their promoter. He’s most certainly not working in the best interest of his fighters. Hearn takes a lot of shit from fans, but unlike guys like finkel, I do believe that he does have his fighters interests at least equal to his own

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Boxrec has Miller at 6 and Ortiz at 7...

Lol

 

[defjaam]

Notice how the old man jumps in when Deontay gets asked something business related..



Obviously we all agree that Deontay isnt the brightest guy on the planet, but he should be able to know about business.

And Finkel mentions that him, Deontay and Haymon sat down... I think we would have a good laugh if there was a camera and we could watch that meeting. If he can't answer simple questions regarding business, how would he be able to negotiate and communicate with Finkel and Haymon?

 

[PUO3]

I dont like accusing guys of juicing without proof but I think theres a good chance Ortiz can’t take the fight short notice? Logically it can only be that surely? & I think short notice against a skilled southpaw counterpuncher actually benefits Ortiz, not Joshua

I think these guys are definately being used by their promoter. He’s most certainly not working in the best interest of his fighters. Hearn takes a lot of shit from fans, but unlike guys like finkel, I do believe that he does have his fighters interests at least equal to his own

I hinted towards that in another thread as to why theyre struggling to find a dance partner on short notice.

In Ortiz case its a fair concern because hes got a history of it.

Ive been critical of Hearn, mainly with those opening offers, but I absolutely agree he does right by his guys. RR agrees with that also, they like how hes handled Danny.

Whyte kind of got put in a shit situation because hes simply not the star that AJ is.

 

[PUO3]

Notice how the old man jumps in when Deontay gets asked something business related..



Obviously we all agree that Deontay isnt the brightest guy on the planet, but he should be able to know about business.

And Finkel mentions that him, Deontay and Haymon sat down... I think we would have a good laugh if there was a camera and we could watch that meeting. If he can't answer simple questions regarding business, how would he be able to negotiate and communicate with Finkel and Haymon?

Wilder gets worked up and offended really easily. I think in his case he doesnt trust Hearn because of the back and forth theyve had. That reads like a case of Hearn playing chess and Wilder playing checkers.

It really fucking sucks tbh because hell never get anywhere close to what he would be.

 

[defjaam]

Wilder gets worked up and offended really easily. I think in his case he doesnt trust Hearn because of the back and forth theyve had. That reads like a case of Hearn playing chess and Wilder playing checkers.

It really fucking sucks tbh because hell never get anywhere close to what he would be.

Wilder would have signed with DAZN, not with Hearn, who is the CEO of Matchroom, not DAZN.

Instead of 100 Mio for his next 3 fights, he'll not even 10 million if he's next three opponents are lesser known names like Dominik Breazeale.

Would really like to know what Finkel and Haymon told him. According to the interview up there they promised him the Joshua fight, which a) they absolutely can't promise, and b) they did their best to block that fight in the past.

 

[PUO3]

Wilder would have signed with DAZN, not with Hearn, who is the CEO of Matchroom, not DAZN.

Instead of 100 Mio for his next 3 fights, he'll not even 10 million if he's next three opponents are lesser known names like Dominik Breazeale.

Would really like to know what Finkel and Haymon told him. According to the interview up there they promised him the Joshua fight, which a) they absolutely can't promise, and b) they did their best to block that fight in the past.

Isnt Hearn involved with Dazn...?

 

[GoldenAzazel]

Isnt Hearn involved with Dazn...?

I guess it's like signing with ESPN, but not Top Rank.

 

[defjaam]

Isnt Hearn involved with Dazn...?

He's promoting the fights for the boxers who are signed with Matchroom. In this case Joshua, who would have been a big part of Wilders DAZN deal. Much like Oscar / Golden Boy... So Hearn wasn't even present at the meeting that Wilder and his team had with DAZN's CEO.

But if Wilder loves Finkel so much and thinks the old man is doing a superb job, which I personally don't think he's doing, he could have let him do the promotional work and still take the DAZN deal. Instead, Finkel and Haymon talked him out the DAZN deal competely, LOL.

20 Mio $ for the Breazeale fight only, which is way overpaid... Wilder, one of the rare humans on the planet who rejected getting overpaid.

 

[Kevster]

But but but it’s all Eddies fault.