Eddie Cummings Digitsu project now avalable for < 20 USD

[trustdoesntrust]

Eddie shows a few breaking details that aren't in either Rob's or Danaher's set and also a variation on the saddle position that delivers a stronger break than the normal one.

As far as the leg knot I think I've seen Tonon use it once and I don't think he was even trying to tap the guy there. I've seen the DDS guys use it to expose the heel and they roll through and end up in outside ashi. But for outside heel hooks they prefer outside ashi and for inside heel hooks they prefer the saddle over 50/50. The reason they stay away from the classic reaping leg knot outside heel hook is because it does not pin the opponent's hips and as you reap you can help their defense by rolling them out of the outside heel hook.

But even these days I hear that they mostly don't tap to outside heel hooks in training. The inside heel hook is way stronger.

of all the leg dvds now on the market, which one best addresses control from the saddle? i feel like i have a good grasp on entering and attacking from all the leglock spots, but am relatively weak in preventing savvy opponents from just kick-pushing their way out of my saddle or SLX.

i have craig jones set, and roli delgado legal leglocks.

 

[JagRoss]

That's what I'm most excited to try and why I've stayed away from outside ashi recently. It's not a big deal when people don't do this but I like how Eddie references past matches to explain why he makes certain adjustments. When showing that re-counter to the leg drag he mentions the Tanquinho matches and how it helped him refine and adjust the position. he shows what he used to do and why he changed it. The technique would be great either way but it's those extra things that make me appreciate learning from athletes that are also good teachers.

If I remember the Tanquinho match this counter turned up more from the SLX than the outside ashi.

It's still a really good counter. The only thing I'm worried about is maybe the pressure on the back (similar to the mount escape where you pull your heel in), but I feel if you keep the toes pointed out, it's either a leg press, or it slips off...

 

[mataleaos]

of all the leg dvds now on the market, which one best addresses control from the saddle? i feel like i have a good grasp on entering and attacking from

Damn that's a good question. None of them address it in crazy detail. I kept waiting for Danaher to talk about it and he didn't for the most part. Craig Jones and Lachlan Giles have some good youtube vids on it. The big detail is keepung your outside leg flared so that its knee is facing the same direction as the opponent's trapped knee. So Craig Jones mentions that detail when on the outside hip and your flared knee is touching the floor. But as you release the second leg to heel hook a lot of time you have to tilt over onto the inside hip to finish. And from studying matches I see that most of the best guys keep that outside knee flared wide instead of pinching their legs. And Danaher mentioned to pin their toes to the floor with your lat/pec muscles if you end up on your inside hip to finish. I don't know man.

I'd maybe try this Eddie set out, because it does cover some ways to prevent them from turning out to escape, and for 20 bucks it gave me a much greater understanding of what they need to do and how to stop it from the saddle.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Damn that's a good question. None of them address it in crazy detail. I kept waiting for Danaher to talk about it and he didn't for the most part. Craig Jones and Lachlan Giles have some good youtube vids on it. The big detail is keepung your outside leg flared so that its knee is facing the same direction as the opponent's trapped knee. So Craig Jones mentions that detail when on the outside hip and your flared knee is touching the floor. But as you release the second leg to heel hook a lot of time you have to tilt over onto the inside hip to finish. And from studying matches I see that most of the best guys keep that outside knee flared wide instead of pinching their legs. And Danaher mentioned to pin their toes to the floor with your lat/pec muscles if you end up on your inside hip to finish. I don't know man.

I'd maybe try this Eddie set out, because it does cover some ways to prevent them from turning out to escape, and for 20 bucks it gave me a much greater understanding of what they need to do and how to stop it from the saddle.

thanks! this is exactly the issue i'm talking about. the way i see it, the major difference between DDS/Craig Jones leglocks vs. 10th Planet and the rest is that when DDS/Jones get in those positions they hold and finish every single time, whereas everybody else either gets a lightning attack or nothing. The Jones leg DVD has lots of great counters to opp defenses but not reslly a discussion of the mechanics of holding the position.

 

[mataleaos]

thanks! this is exactly the issue i'm talking about. the way i see it, the major difference between DDS/Craig Jones leglocks vs. 10th Planet and the rest is that when DDS/Jones get in those positions they hold and finish every single time, whereas everybody else either gets a lightning attack or nothing. The Jones leg DVD has lots of great counters to opp defenses but not reslly a discussion of the mechanics of holding the position.

Just to put it out there I think the best way of actually holding it is to have both legs. Honestly good saddle control with just one leg used to be very strong by itself but at this point I think you kind of need both legs unless you already have the heel exposed and one arm already on the grip as you go into the saddle.

But I think both legs with your outside knee flared to the floor is the best way to control. And then any of the various ways to let go of the far leg while keeping the outside knee flared seem to be best. I know there are some different foot positions besides just the classic leg triangle that help control the position better but I think that outside knee flare is the biggest key detail.

See if this helps too. There's some good gems in here.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

finally plunked down the $20 bucks (!) for this. wow, eddie is a genius; he has heel hook mechanics down to a molecular level. it's like a medical seminar

 

[vcmmafan]

I still prefer the Modern LLS set over Danher's

 

[trustdoesntrust]

The best thing about this set is it’s the first leg lock set that feels like it addresses issues you run into against other good heel hookers.

exactly this. it's the first leglock instructional i've seen that really explains *why* the modern leg positions work the way they do in fundamental terms (analogous to how armbars work). it also codifies a few fundamental grips (arch control, c-post, etc.) that are central to the ashi game, and gives a very strong answer to the "unfair 50/50" position.

 

[vcmmafan]

Bought it, I'm really liking the info so far. I'll wait till I finish the whole thing to make comparisons to Danaher's dvd's, but I doubt I'll be the only one making those comparisons.

You done yet bro

 

[vcmmafan]

This going to be much easier to go through than jhons...

The leg knot, that’s a string position if you can get to it, never understood why isn’t high level guys going for it...

Is it just harder to get into?

 

[Uchi Mata]

Eddie's a fantastic teacher, his seminar was one of the best I've attended. I'll definitely pick this up.

 

[mataleaos]

Is it just harder to get into?

It's pretty easy to get into but it doesn't have the hip pinning control of most of the other common leg enanglements. Also it elevates and turns their hips which can sort of throw the person out of the heel hook. The breaking power is also not as strong. It's not a bad position and if you get it one someone they're in deep shit. But in terms of high level leg locking positions it's at the bottom of the hierarchy these days. It just can't compete with positions like the saddle or the outside ashi in terms of control and breaking power.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

It's pretty easy to get into but it doesn't have the hip pinning control of most of the other common leg enanglements. Also it elevates and turns their hips which can sort of throw the person out of the heel hook. The breaking power is also not as strong. It's not a bad position and if you get it one someone they're in deep shit. But in terms of high level leg locking positions it's at the bottom of the hierarchy these days. It just can't compete with positions like the saddle or the outside ashi in terms of control and breaking power.

the leg knot seems unnecessary if you already have double leg control (which you need anyway to get to the leg knot). i think what really defines the modern leglock game is that the intricacies of gripping and control points are becoming defined and systematized, making big movement old school finishes like the leg knot obsolete.

 

[DatCutman]

You done yet bro

Forgot I even wrote that!

As for the material, it's far too different from the Danaher materials to draw a meaningful comparison. It's a focus almost exclusively on finishing leg attacks; mechanics, counters, and re-counters. Eddie Cummings does something I consider fantastic which so many people leave out, which is to say an objective, and that you'll have to find a way to make it happen. So many times moves are prescribed; when X happens, do Y, etc., but it's usually never like that in reality, as there are so many different roads to Rome. Knowing what is necessary, and being told you could (and should) improvise your way to that necessity is an invaluable lesson.

As for the Danaher material, it barely scratches the surface of finishing a heel hook by comparison. I don't know if this was intentional (this is Eddie Cummings unique knowledge, and Danaher didn't want to infringe) or otherwise (maybe Danaher couldn't convince the publishers to make a 15 dvd set). You're not going to learn much about entries or setups, but I think that's ok. Entries and setups are going to change over time as the grappling meta shifts over time, different guards become in vogue, etc. While it'd be great if leg entries became a solved meta, it isn't there yet. Especially not until the leg positioning meta settles. With that said, I think the material in Eddie's instructional going to be correct regardless of the ongoing meta, and is a good representation of what has been solved. While the difference between other leg sets (Danaher, Craig Jones, etc.) is going to be preference, I would dare to say Eddie's should be required viewing by comparison.

 

[DatCutman]

the leg knot seems unnecessary if you already have double leg control (which you need anyway to get to the leg knot). i think what really defines the modern leglock game is that the intricacies of gripping and control points are becoming defined and systematized, making big movement old school finishes like the leg knot obsolete.

Assuming we're talking about the old Reilly Bodycomb knot, I don't know if I'd say it was unnecessary; the knot was an optional specific solution to a certain response to position No. 3. As you've pointed out though, the game has morphed to a point where it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense any more (Reilly himself stopped teaching that progression/system years ago, and his "Modern Anklelocks" set is devoid of any such references). Even the "hard" style knee reaping is losing traction to the "soft" reap of the inside sankaku, or the non-reap of double-outside control. These days you'd be better off going from SLX to Reverse X Guard to Inside Sankaku, or SLX to double outside ashi, rather than trying to enter the 2010-era SLX to Reap to leg Knot.

 

[mataleaos]

Forgot I even wrote that!

As for the material, it's far too different from the Danaher materials to draw a meaningful comparison. It's a focus almost exclusively on finishing leg attacks; mechanics, counters, and re-counters. Eddie Cummings does something I consider fantastic which so many people leave out, which is to say an objective, and that you'll have to find a way to make it happen. So many times moves are prescribed; when X happens, do Y, etc., but it's usually never like that in reality, as there are so many different roads to Rome. Knowing what is necessary, and being told you could (and should) improvise your way to that necessity is an invaluable lesson.

As for the Danaher material, it barely scratches the surface of finishing a heel hook by comparison. I don't know if this was intentional (this is Eddie Cummings unique knowledge, and Danaher didn't want to infringe) or otherwise (maybe Danaher couldn't convince the publishers to make a 15 dvd set). You're not going to learn much about entries or setups, but I think that's ok. Entries and setups are going to change over time as the grappling meta shifts over time, different guards become in vogue, etc. While it'd be great if leg entries became a solved meta, it isn't there yet. Especially not until the leg positioning meta settles. With that said, I think the material in Eddie's instructional going to be correct regardless of the ongoing meta, and is a good representation of what has been solved. While the difference between other leg sets (Danaher, Craig Jones, etc.) is going to be preference, I would dare to say Eddie's should be required viewing by comparison.

Best post in this thread hands down.

 

[mataleaos]

Eddie Cummings does something I consider fantastic which so many people leave out, which is to say an objective, and that you'll have to find a way to make it happen. So many times moves are prescribed; when X happens, do Y, etc., but it's usually never like that in reality, as there are so many different roads to Rome. Knowing what is necessary, and being told you could (and should) improvise your way to that necessity is an invaluable lesson.

Ultimately to me that's the most enjoyable thing about the art. Take away everything and that's what it's all about, and that;s what makes it a martial art and not a method or a process.