Felipe Pena tests positive for testosterone.

[thugpoet]

Maybe.

But as long as PEDs are banned, using them is a failure of integrity.

There are, at heart, two separate issues here.

One is why are PEDs banned to begin with. Another is the ethics behind using banned substances.

The ethics question should be a no-brainer for the most part. It's banned. Don't use them. If you are using them, then you're getting a clear advantage over anyone who isn't using them. If every elite athlete is using them, then I think it's a clear sign that their ethics and moral integrity is a bit off.

The banned question is separate matter entirely. But I don't think you should be getting the two issues mixed up.

P.S.- There are research that weed is not exactly neutral for you.

I can agree with this

 

[LaBrian]

This is idiotic. Steroids have a quantitative side, people will always roid, but the more advanced the testing the less time they roid and the smaller the dose.

If you took away any restriction people would be roided balls to the wall 24/7/365 and people would start dropping dead like in WWE before testing

You are assuming that every PED created is detectable and tested for, and that the testing process is always honest and not influenced by corruption, which are both terrible assumptions.

In lower level sports like BJJ, where there is not very much money involved, it would be possible to implement a testing regimen that was for all intents and purposes unbeatable for the amount of resources the athletes have available to them. That testing protocol would cost an amount orders of magnitude larger than the laughable one that IBJJF has implemented. I highly doubt they ever will.

In larger sports with millions and millions of dollars on the line it will always be impossible for the testers to keep pace with the dopers. Its just not that expensive to research and develop novel PEDs. They get caught sometimes, but its years and years later and at that point does anyone really care? Sure they stripped Lance Armstrong of his titles but he still got to be an Icon, he's still fabulously wealthy. I'm sure if he had it to do over he'd do the same thing and there are hundreds of people in sport just like him.

The idea that you can take the most competitive and athletically elite people on the planet and stop them from trying to get every edge on the competition possible by banning certain substances is absolutely preposterous. Just as the rest of the drug war is preposterous. Open it up, regulate it, give everyone the same access and level the playing field. Much like the tech specs in auto/moto racing classes. That's the only rational solution.

 

[dmwalking]

Cant believe some people dont seem to understand that faster and better recovery equals more possible training time which equals better skills.

You make it sound guaranteed. Lots of athletes on PEDs do not acquire better skills. You have to have the ability already. I can take as many PEDs as I want and I'll never be able to hit a fastball like McGuire. PED's made him hit harder, but he already had the skill. So steroids do not guarantee better skills. It's only a possibility. That's why I say, roids don't give you beautiful back takes. HE had to train that.

 

[randomg1t]

You make it sound guaranteed. Lots of athletes on PEDs do not acquire better skills. You have to have the ability already. I can take as many PEDs as I want and I'll never be able to hit a fastball like McGuire. PED's made him hit harder, but he already had the skill. So steroids do not guarantee better skills. It's only a possibility. That's why I say, roids don't give you beautiful back takes. HE had to train that.

that's exactly what the post you quoted was saying. he could train more because he took PEDs. training more is directly correlated to your skill level. it isn't a possibility, when you train more you will be better. a lot better, a little better, it doesn't matter.

i don't have a very strong opinion on the matter one way or the other, but the shit is banned right now so you shouldn't be taking it right now. "everyone else is also doing it" isn't a valid excuse. if you have any integrity, you won't do it even if everyone else is.

but people need to act like substance abuse can result only and exclusively in speed and power. if i wanted a competitive edge, i'd actually be a lot more interested in stuff that allowed me to train more and get sharper technically. if you can take something that allows you to go through 3 two-hour sessions of intensive drilling and sparring a day, you'll get really good, really quickly.

 

[LaBrian]

The logic of children is predicated on loose senses.

Food is necessary for bodily function. There are no necessary nutrients that are controlled substances, unavailable to certain athletes, or substantial amplifiers of bodily function. PEDs in any form are non-essential to the human body and especially harmful when used in excess.

The crux of the matter is not if athletes should be able to take PEDs to get better, it's that they *never* openly divulge that they do so. If PEDs were about creating the best form of jiu-jitsu, PED users would be campaigning for legalization and equitable regulation; they aren't. This indicates that PED users are either cowards because they're afraid of scrutiny, or cowards because they want to keep their illegal advantage a secret. Which is obviously the definition of cheating.

This really isn't hard to understand. We have sports competition because we're interested in seeing who is the best. We have categories for gender, age, size, and skill level because it's reasonable for all people to be able to compete against those who are obviously similar to them. If you feel like you need to use non-essential chemicals to boost your bodily functions beyond what you suspect your competitor has, and then not disclose it openly to your competitor, you're a bitch, and a coward. There's no two ways around it. And I don't take sports that seriously, but I take serious offense when cowards get ahead in life, while right-minded, hard-working individuals lose.

Man you must have been pissed off in history class all the time.

 

[Obscure Terror]

Man you must have been pissed off in history class all the time.

If you don't get outraged from the lessons of history and strive to learn from them, what's the point in continuing civilization? Surely the point is to get better, act better, be better people.

/justsayin

 

[LaBrian]

If you don't get outraged from the lessons of history and strive to learn from them, what's the point in continuing civilization? Surely the point is to get better, act better, be better people.

/justsayin

There is no point. The universe doesn't give a fuck. (unless you are a white chick in your 20s)

 

[randomg1t]

There is no point. The universe doesn't give a fuck. (unless you are a white chick in your 20s)

the universe doesn't, but does that mean that no one should? i'm far more concerned about people who look at all the atrocities in history and shrug them off than i am about people who are pissed at them.

being mad at horrible shit means you won't take part in it, and actively oppose it when it comes around again. when you don't think it matters, you'll just stand by and allow it to happen again.

 

[Vitamin C]

When does outrage at history end? I'd. Personally notsay I'm "pissed" at anything that happened in the past, let alone before I'd existed.
Doesn't mean I don't think that the holocaust was a morally wrong event.
Then what side of history are you on? Are present day Italians proud of the slaughter of the Carthaginians at Cannae? Should Tunisians begrudge Italians for the Punic wars?
Seriously, at some point people will be studying world war two less for its ethics and more for its strategies. Certainly once we as a society commit worse atrocities.

 

[yetanother]

[deleted]

 

[JoelThomas]

There is no point. The universe doesn't give a fuck. (unless you are a white chick in your 20s)

Claiming the universe doesn't give a fuck implies that autonomous consciousnesses within said universe who patently give a fuck aren't a part of the universe, which is absurd. And if you believe those who give a fuck are operating under hard deterministic principles and therefore not truly autonomous, you've invented a universe in which "giving a fuck" was a hard deterministic possibility, therefore, the universe ultimately gives a fuck at some point or another.

Good luck in life, you stupid racist.

 

[LaBrian]

Claiming the universe doesn't give a fuck implies that autonomous consciousnesses within said universe who patently give a fuck aren't a part of the universe, which is absurd. And if you believe those who give a fuck are operating under hard deterministic principles and therefore not truly autonomous, you've invented a universe in which "giving a fuck" was a hard deterministic possibility, therefore, the universe ultimately gives a fuck at some point or another.

Good luck in life, you stupid racist.

Well aren't you precious! You solved the hard problem of consciousness all in one paragraph on sherdog. Somebody better call Dennett and let him know. Thank you for gracing us with your genius.

Also it was a reference to the Amy Schumer/ Bill Nye sketch not a statement of racial preference you moron. It's a great takedown of the human need to find meaning where that isn't any. Funny too!

 

[Oliver Geddes]

I honestly cannot believe the support for steroid use on this thread. I remember when people used to hate on the IBJJF and talk about how it was ridiculous that everyone was juicing and no one even seemed to care. And now there's a testing policy, people are complaining because they can't see their favourite athletes compete? I've never taken steroids in my life, I've fought a ton of top competitors, and you're honestly saying that if I juiced up, gained (or dropped, I guess?) a weight class and began crushing everyone (not saying I could, just as a hypothetical) no one would think less of me for it? Well shoot. Guess I've been doing this wrong.

 

[Alonbenav]

I honestly cannot believe the support for steroid use on this thread. I remember when people used to hate on the IBJJF and talk about how it was ridiculous that everyone was juicing and no one even seemed to care. And now there's a testing policy, people are complaining because they can't see their favourite athletes compete? I've never taken steroids in my life, I've fought a ton of top competitors, and you're honestly saying that if I juiced up, gained (or dropped, I guess?) a weight class and began crushing everyone (not saying I could, just as a hypothetical) no one would think less of me for it? Well shoot. Guess I've been doing this wrong.

No Oli, you've been doing it right. You shouldn't have to jam substances of questionable medical safety into your body so that you can overtrain, just to win a tournament.

 

[TheFakeMacoy]

Oli, I for one appreciate you not doing steroids and cheating. The sport needs more testing to weed out the cheaters, at least as much as possible.

 

[ijustwannasurf]

I honestly cannot believe the support for steroid use on this thread. I remember when people used to hate on the IBJJF and talk about how it was ridiculous that everyone was juicing and no one even seemed to care. And now there's a testing policy, people are complaining because they can't see their favourite athletes compete? I've never taken steroids in my life, I've fought a ton of top competitors, and you're honestly saying that if I juiced up, gained (or dropped, I guess?) a weight class and began crushing everyone (not saying I could, just as a hypothetical) no one would think less of me for it? Well shoot. Guess I've been doing this wrong.

Respect.
The false dichotomy of having to win NOW, at any cost, whether to ensure some nebulous economic future or just for the bragging rights, is easy to buy into. I'm glad you live in the real world.

 

[LaBrian]

I honestly cannot believe the support for steroid use on this thread. I remember when people used to hate on the IBJJF and talk about how it was ridiculous that everyone was juicing and no one even seemed to care. And now there's a testing policy, people are complaining because they can't see their favourite athletes compete? I've never taken steroids in my life, I've fought a ton of top competitors, and you're honestly saying that if I juiced up, gained (or dropped, I guess?) a weight class and began crushing everyone (not saying I could, just as a hypothetical) no one would think less of me for it? Well shoot. Guess I've been doing this wrong.

My problem with it is the same as my problem with any prohibition of any drug. They are essentially unenforceable, and they cause way more problems than they solve. Its the law of unintended consequences. The drug war is an absolute unmitigated disaster and it should ended immediately.

 

[the heed]

My problem with it is the same as my problem with any prohibition of any drug. They are essentially unenforceable, and they cause way more problems than they solve. Its the law of unintended consequences. The drug war is an absolute unmitigated disaster and it should ended immediately.

While I believe more drug testing should implemented to promote fair play
I do agree with this statement.

 

[LaBrian]

While I believe more drug testing should implemented to promote fair play
I do agree with this statement.

The level of testing/punishment required to actually make it a negative expected value bet to use PEDs has never been, and I doubt will ever be implemented in any sport. Not to mention the amount of corruption you have to deal with when the amounts of money get large. Nearly every champion PED user got away with it because they are protected by the people that run the sport. It always becomes a game of might makes right. Ben Johnson is an Icon of cheating, but Carl Lewis failed just as many tests and the evidence was buried every step of the way.

 

[rmongler]

'the universe doesn't give a fuck' is convenient short hand for 'in the events that the universe does give a fuck, you certainly arnt in a condition to understand it to any great degree, and attempts to do so tend to result in bloodthirsty revolutions.'

its about people not giving fucks, and people not giving fucks are people not swept up by political ecstasy eating each other in orgies of holier than thou posturing, or lesser yet annoyingly common variations of the same phenomena.