Founding fathers quote thread

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” —Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter
Carr, 1785
 
Fawlty said:
Smells like an Infowars fan.
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Smells like an insecure, noncreative, Non self reliant, jealousy driven, lower management at best, indoctrinated, no risk pansy.
 
lilelvis said:
Smells like an insecure, noncreative, Non self reliant, jealousy driven, lower management at best, indoctrinated, no risk pansy.
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That must have been festering for a while. What does it say about you that an insecure, noncreative, Non self reliant, jealousy driven, lower management at best, indoctrinated, no risk pansy got you so worked up by calling out the douchiness of the emptyquote-style founding fathers worship?
 
Overpressure said:
I fucking hate this stupid, stupid quote.
It's elitist bullshit. Lots of people would make that trade and they're still deserving of the same liberty and security as Ben Franklin. Just because they'd make what seems like a sensible exchange, in their estimation, Franklin says they don't deserve either?
Fuck off, Ben, fuck off.
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Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. Helen Keller
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/helen_keller_121787
 
Cubo de Sangre said:
Here's why your assessment is lacking, if that's what you mean.

It touches on two fundamentally important concepts. Popular opinion and self-defense. It introduces the nuance of numerical might not making right (by creating empathy for the perspective of, and potential consequences to, the noticeably disadvantaged minority. It reinforces the notion that this is a world where might almost always does make right. Or at the very least that the lack of it can get you killed far easier. Let's file the concept under tyranny of the masses. Lastly, its clear support of individual rights is near and dear to my heart. I consider that an enlightened view. Not bad for a couple dozen words.
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I get that the intention is to make a point about democracy needing protection of rights. That's a trite point. But in the process of making the uncontroversial point, the speaker (not Benjamin Franklin or any other founder), ends up arguing that liberty is the violent overturning of an election. That kind of bungling strikes me as dumb.
 
Fawlty said:
That must have been festering for a while. What does it say about you that an insecure, noncreative, Non self reliant, jealousy driven, lower management at best, indoctrinated, no risk pansy got you so worked up by calling out the douchiness of the emptyquote-style founding fathers worship?
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Worked up?
Just the usual fun
 
Trotsky said:
“You know what uranium is, right? This thing called nuclear weapons like lots of things are done with uranium including some bad things.” - James Madison

"Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest -and you all know it! Please don't feel so stupid or insecure, it's not your fault." - John Adams

Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Franklin at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart—you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us. - Benjamin Franklin

"I am totally in favor of vaccines. But I want smaller doses over a longer period of time. Same exact amount, but you take this little beautiful baby, and you pump--I mean, it looks just like it's meant for a horse, not for a child, and we've had so many instances, people that work for me. ... [in which] a child, a beautiful child went to have the vaccine, and came back and a week later had a tremendous fever, got very, very sick, now is autistic." - George Washington

All of the women on 'The Apprentice' flirted with me — consciously or unconsciously. That's to be expected. A sexual dynamic is always present between people, unless you are asexual. - Thomas Jefferson

"Part of the beauty of me is that I am very rich." - Thomas Paine
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LMAO gotten to AF
 
"I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well-administred; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administred for a Course of Years and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other." - Benjamin Franklin
 
Jack V Savage said:
I get that the intention is to make a point about democracy needing protection of rights. That's a trite point. But in the process of making the uncontroversial point, the speaker (not Benjamin Franklin or any other founder), ends up arguing that liberty is the violent overturning of an election. That kind of bungling strikes me as dumb.
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What you call trite I call something similar to 2+2=4. It's easy to learn, but it's an essential part of the foundation of what mankind has built. And reminders of the basics are never a bad thing.

For the record, when it comes to philosophy I'm generally only interested in the ideas. It's good that you're correcting the record here on the attribution.

I don't think this quote argues what you suggest. It can easily be inferred the lamb is partaking in the democracy as it's implied by him being grouped in for the vote. It's only when majority rule attempts to justify true tyranny that armed self-defense comes into play as a last resort. It's not simply because the lamb didn't like the ACA or Trump that violence enters into it. It's a response to violence and highlighting the core belief that self-defense is as fundamental of a right as you can get. There's certainly a point to be made that cautions against the use of violence to settle political differences, but that's for another quote. Then we all find a balancing point in our minds.
 
Fawlty said:
Okay I'm gonna say it since I didn't see anybody else say it.

Grabbing a Founder quote that is in tension with today's state of affairs in order to suggest that we're doing things wrong is douchey and dull. So is the worship of their inerrancy, even when they don't agree (gee, smacks of Christianity...), and don't even get me started on the fake ones. Half of the quotes that are meant to elicit a patriotic hate boner could just as easily be criticizing the Founders for getting it wrong- honestly wrong- but wrong. We haven't needed to refresh the tree of liberty with blood, you gloomy fucks. It's like a Ron Paul rally up in here.
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Why understand context and give sound interpretation when it's so much easier to drop random quotes that reaffirm you worldviews?
 
Benjamin Franklin on the Iroquois League, in a letter to James Parker, 1751
In this letter, Benjamin Franklin, whose famous statement “Join or Die” later galvanized colonial union and the fight for independence from the British, states that his inspiration for this came from the six tribes of the Iroquois Nation, for whom union was also advantageous.

It would be a strange thing if Six Nations of ignorant savages should be capable of forming a scheme for such an union, and be able to execute it in such a manner as that it has subsisted ages and appears indissoluble; and yet that a like union should be impracticable for ten or a dozen English colonies, to whom it is more necessary and must be more advantageous, and who cannot be supposed to want an equal understanding of their interests.

Credit: Benjamin Franklin on the Iroquois League, in a letter to James Parker, 1751.
 
Jack V Savage said:
The quote is dumb, but also obviously wasn't said by Benjamin Franklin. Poor guy died before "lunch" was even a word.

BTW, came into the thread wondering when the first false attribution would occur. Not surprised that it was in the OP (not the only one, I'd bet, though that was the most obvious).
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Whatever we think of the quote I feel kind of bad for the guys who actually said it and get no credit.

  • Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
    • Widely attributed to Franklin on the Internet, sometimes without the second sentence. It is not found in any of his known writings, and the word "lunch" is not known to have appeared anywhere in English literature until the 1820s, decades after his death. The phrasing itself has a very modern tone and the second sentence especially might not even be as old as the internet. Some of these observations are made in response to a query at Google Answers. [8]
      The earliest known similar statements are:
      • A democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
        • Gary Strand, Usenet group sci.environment, 23 April 1990. [9]
      • Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.
        • Marvin Simkin, "Individual Rights", Los Angeles Times, 12 January 1992. [10]
      • Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
 
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

---10th Amendment to the US Constitution, ratified in 1791. (drafted by Roger Sherman)
 
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Animal Cracker said:
Whatever we think of the quote I feel kind of bad for the guys who actually said it and get no credit.

  • Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
    • Widely attributed to Franklin on the Internet, sometimes without the second sentence. It is not found in any of his known writings, and the word "lunch" is not known to have appeared anywhere in English literature until the 1820s, decades after his death. The phrasing itself has a very modern tone and the second sentence especially might not even be as old as the internet. Some of these observations are made in response to a query at Google Answers. [8]
      The earliest known similar statements are:
      • A democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
        • Gary Strand, Usenet group sci.environment, 23 April 1990. [9]
      • Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.
        • Marvin Simkin, "Individual Rights", Los Angeles Times, 12 January 1992. [10]
      • Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
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That quote must have spread incredibly quickly, because I remember it always being a thing. Freakonomics says: "Garson O’Toole has traced a version of this back to 1990. He found the line 'Democracy has been described as four wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch' in the Los Angeles Times, Nov. 25, 1990."

I can see how it catches on because it's clever, but I also never heard the garbage second half of it until recently.
 
VivaRevolution said:
There are so many quotes from the founding fathers of the United States that are very applicable today. I wanted to share some of my favorites. Feel free to do the same.

The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing.
John Adams

Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself.
John Adams

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams

If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.
Samuel Adams

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.
Benjamin Franklin

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
Benjamin Franklin

Now more than ever before, the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature…. If the next centennial does not find us a great nation … it will be because those who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the morality of the nation do not aid in controlling the political forces.
James Garfield, the twentieth president of the United States, 1877

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.
Patrick Henry, American colonial revolutionary

The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government — lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.
Patrick Henry

I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves, (A)nd if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.
Thomas Jefferson

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln

Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step over the ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! — All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a Thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.
Abraham Lincoln

The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. The banking powers are more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. They denounce as public enemies all who question their methods or throw light upon their crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe.
Abraham Lincoln

We the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts–not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.
Abraham Lincoln

It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government.
Thomas Paine

Discuss.......
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I'm a minority , and don't care for any founding fathers who's interest only served certain groups of people.
 
kenetics said:
I'm a minority , and don't care for any founding fathers who's interest only served certain groups of people.
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What if the founding fathers who were merchants, actually shared some common interest with Joe dirt?

Btw, you say you are a minority, but so is Colin Powell, Kanye west, Carlos Helu, Jack Ma, ect.

What do you have in common with those minorities?
 
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VivaRevolution said:
What if the founding fathers who were merchants, actually shared some common interest with Joe dirt?
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This is an important and not at all obvious bit about those guys. They weren't exactly living in opulence. They were mostly wealthy compared to other Americans, but not how you would expect. Some of the bootleggers were pretty rich though.
 
Fawlty said:
This is an important and not at all obvious bit about those guys. They weren't exactly living in opulence. They were mostly wealthy compared to other Americans, but not how you would expect. Some of the bootleggers were pretty rich though.
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That society is so far removed from us. 99% of the world lived in a local economy that strechted all of 30 miles. Wealth was so finite. I hate what banking has become, but I know the history of the green back party. I understand that we are better off Keynesia, then with a lack of liquidity and currency.
 
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